Ja
Smash Journeyman
In SSBM you couldn't DI with an attack, that is if you were DIing straight up against an attack that sent you straight up it was as if you weren't DIing at all. Is this changed?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Can you DI the "wrong way"?
- Thread starter Ja
- Start date
Ja
Smash Journeyman
bump, could someone please test this?
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Not exactly. DI changes the trajectory of the attack you are hit by. However, the most effective DI for attacks in melee is that perpindicular to the defualt trajectory of the attack. Also, DIing parallel to an attack does not affect the trajectory at all So an attack that sends you straight up should be DI'd sideways, and DIing it straight down will have no effect. Likewise, attacks that send you straight sideways should be DI'd straight up.
However, most attacks do not send you straight up or straight sideways, but instead at an angle. Let's take's Marth's f-smash. The defualt trajectory on his foward smash is about 35 to 40 degrees. That means that the best possible DI is between 125 to 130 degrees (which is up and about 35 to 40 degrees behind him. However, there are two perpindiculars for every angle. Another perpindicular would be -55 to -50 degrees (or down and 35 to 40 degrees away from him.
The first perpindicular I mentioned is called "survival DI" because it has the best chance of preventing you from being KO'd. The second one doesn't have a name that I'm aware of, but using that DI will send you almost completely sideways, and will likely kill you. This is the type of DI the original poster wants tested.
The 2nd DI you mentioned would be the equivalent to Melee's CC; holding down to deter force onto the ground. However it's been shown that CC is very ineffective in Brawl.
To answer the OP's original question, it seems that perpendicular DI is still the most effective survival DI.
To answer the OP's original question, it seems that perpendicular DI is still the most effective survival DI.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Not quite. Crouch canceling requires you to be crouching. What makes you smash into the ground in melee is ASDI (automatic smash DI) which is read on the same frame as normal DI, but has nothing to do with crouch canceling. It's just that to crouch, you also have to hold down, so sometimes people mix that up.
The second DI I mentioned would be the one used in Double Stick DI. In this case, you want to make your vertical trajectory as low as possible, so that ASDI is enough to make you hit the ground. This is only usefull if you plan on teching the attack.
Ja
Smash Journeyman
Bump, cmon people don't you have better things to do like test a fundamental gameplay mechanic instead of naming stupid techs after yourself?
Finch
Smash Lord
All discussion about useful and relevant things aside, what the topic creator was asking is if you can DI along the exact same trajectory as you are hit so that you fly farther and kill yourself. I assume the answer is no, but i suppose it would be nice to test this in case you want a cool way to do some ultra sandbagging for some reason.
MetaKevin
Smash Cadet
Funny enough, in all my thread searching this seems to be the best compilation of DI explanations I've seen. And so I have another question: when exactly is it wise to start a DI? Do you hold the direction as you're physically being hit, or at any point during your midair flight path? Thanks for the help!
GhostAnime
Smash Ace
so say someone sends you straight up in the air from an upsmash. would it be better to DI diagonally down or completely sidways?
Asylum
Smash Journeyman
That will vary depending on the attack.
Ja
Smash Journeyman
I'll explain in terms of melee because I don't have brawl. DI is most effective before the hit sends you flying. If you hold a direction after an attack sends you moving it doesn't change the initial velocity like DI does but you do drift a bit in the direction you're holding.
The reason I'm saying before an attack makes you move and not after you are hit, is because there is hitstun. There's a small time period between being hit with an attack and when it moves you, in that time interval you can reflex the proper DI, prediction isn't necessary.
It really depends, for example you want to DI away to avoid combos, but towards (simplfying) to avoid KO attacks. If you want to minimize flight distance of an attack that sends you straight up, DI straight left or straight right, whichever is away from the person who hit you.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Then you didn't search hard enough. There is a DI thread in the melee section (it's not stickied, but you can just use the search function.)
You have to input the DI before you are actually sent anywhere from the attack you are DIing. The game reads whatever direction you are holding at the end of the hitlag, and that is your DI. Read the other thread for any info you need.
You wont neccessarily kill yourself. This particular kind of DI was used to best escape combos. For instance, Marth's fair sends you away and slightly up (untipped). The survival DI (gives you the best chance of recovering) is up and towards the stage, but using that DI makes you much easier to combo. Using the other perpindicular DI (away and down) gives you the greatest chance of escaping combos, because it knocks you the farstest away from him. The DI you pick should depend on what you are worried about when you're being hit. Are you afraid of dying, or are you afraid of being comboed.
No it won't. An attack that sends you straight up is best DI'd straight sideways. DIing down or up will have no effect on your trajectory whatsoever, so it's pointless to do so.
GhostAnime
Smash Ace
I see. so diagonal DI isn't the best course of action in terms of simply minimizing the distance? that's how I've always done it.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
DI does not change the distance that you are sent at all. What does change the distance is your character's fall speed. That's because only wieght affects how far you are sent horizontally, however vertically that distance is determined by both weight and fall speed.
Another thing that helps in your survival is the fact that DIing changes your trajectory so that you have more distance to travel before you reach the kill zone. The optimal survival DI is the one that changes your trajectory to the very top corner of the screen, as that is technically the furthest distance from the stage (that you can feasibly recover from.) That gives you the longest distance allowed for traveling from the hit, and that extra bit of screen distance is often enough to save you. Combine that with what's mentioned above an you'll see why people live so much longer with good DI.
Another thing that helps in your survival is the fact that DIing changes your trajectory so that you have more distance to travel before you reach the kill zone. The optimal survival DI is the one that changes your trajectory to the very top corner of the screen, as that is technically the furthest distance from the stage (that you can feasibly recover from.) That gives you the longest distance allowed for traveling from the hit, and that extra bit of screen distance is often enough to save you. Combine that with what's mentioned above an you'll see why people live so much longer with good DI.
SilintNinjya
Smash Apprentice
now this might need some testing, but ive seen some "death explosions" come in diagonally. this is just a thought, but it might be an 8 sided boarder now.
also, dark sonic "The game reads whatever direction you are holding at the end of the hitlag, and that is your DI."
not true, you can di on every frame of hit stun (in melee)
also, dark sonic "The game reads whatever direction you are holding at the end of the hitlag, and that is your DI."
not true, you can di on every frame of hit stun (in melee)
GhostAnime
Smash Ace
so as far as the best trajectory in terms of surviving, does diagonal/perpendicular make a difference or not?
Sky_Maro
Smash Apprentice
This may sound dumb but what is DIing?
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Wrong again. That's Smash DI. That moves your character a certain distance during the hit lag. Automatic Smash DI (ASDI) is read on the last frame of hitlag, and does the same thing as SDI, except with less distance. Normal DI (DI) is also read on the last frame of hitlag, and alters the trajectory of the attack.
@GhostAnime- perpindicular is the best starting point, and then you just have to learn to alter it a little for each attack, so that the trajectory sends you towards the corner of the screen. That is the furthest point on the screen, and thus is your best chance of survival.
@Sky Maro- Directional Influence. By holding a direction during an attack, you can change the trajectory that attack sends you at. Parallel DI does nothing, and perpindicular DI is the most drastic change.
Wow, I am learning a lot about DI in This thread.
In a way though DI does reduce the distance you fly. If a character hit you diagonally upward and you use recovery DI, even though the diagonal distance wont change, you wont fly as far to the left or right.
This logic seems right at least by my understanding atleast >.>
In a way though DI does reduce the distance you fly. If a character hit you diagonally upward and you use recovery DI, even though the diagonal distance wont change, you wont fly as far to the left or right.
This logic seems right at least by my understanding atleast >.>
Chaosblade77
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,958
Reading the entire thread would answer that question for you. It's been said several times throughout it.
Ja
Smash Journeyman
bump, this is easy to test if you have brawl...
MetaKevin
Smash Cadet
Bump again. I'm really intrigued by this, surely someone can sit down and test out a fairly basic concept?
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
That's pretty much the idea. That and the fact that when being sent vertically causes the game to include your character's fall speed in the distance calculation, instead of only wieght. That makes it a life saver and have drastic effects on fast fallers.
Ja
Smash Journeyman
bump 10char
Ja
Smash Journeyman
Bump, cmon people don't you have better things to do like test a fundamental gameplay mechanic instead of naming stupid techs after yourself?
Ja
Smash Journeyman
bump 10char
drag0nfeather
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2004
- Messages
- 229
lol. 10char
Wind Owl
Smash Lord
Didn't Sonic Wave already establish the answer to be "no"?
PXG
Smash Journeyman
Sure you can. If your opponent grabs you and throws you into the air, you want to DI away from them. Going towards them will most likely get you hit, stuck in a combo or KO'd. Also, when recovering, DON'T RECOVER ABOVE THE STAGE!!!! REPEAT!!!! DON'T RECOVER ABOVE THE STAGE. Its easier and less of a risk to perform an aerial combo, spike or meteor when there is more distance away from the "pit" of the level. So, by recovering from below the stage, your opponent is less likely going to attempt to get you. Also, when going below the stage, make sure to DI AWAY from it first and then TOWARDS, so that you can avoid F - smashes or tilts. Of course, Actually getting your feet back on the stage is another story.....Jump, roll, pull up or (short hop + air) back on. Which manuver you should do depends on who you are facing and where they are standing.
How come nobody ever answered this question? We know how DI works in Melee, the question is, has it changed in Brawl? Somebody just spend 2 minutes setting up a test to see if you can DI directly against your trajectory, i.e. hit somebody straight up and see if holding straight down makes them fly less distance. This is a new game, all this stuff should be tested over again.
Doomgaze
Smash Apprentice
brickman
Smash Lord
Certainly DI has carried over to SSBB. It doesn't take rigorous testing (although it would be nice) to see this.
Next time you get hit by a powerful attack at high percentage (100% or so) try DI'ing with it. You will most likely fly off the screen. On the other hand, use both the C-stick and the analog stick to DI against it angling yourself to the corner of the screen (where you have the greatest chance of survival). This should be done alongside down airs and air doges (as this has been shown to cancel momentum to a degree). As a result of this, you should be able to survive to higher percentages.
I recognize that this a new game, and that aspects of it are entirely different from melee. ASDI has been removed as far as I can tell. Although, the benefits and usage of double stick DI still seems to be relevant. Not only does it allow you to effectively DI attacks in multiple directions (and if you are fast enough to imput it, you can change your trajectory drastically) allowing you to both cancel momentum and angle yourself for maximum survivability.
In order to be thorough, and hopefully return to the original question, I believe due to the "floatiness" of the characters you should be able to DI very well in either both the left or right directions. You can DI down to cancel momentum, but by double sticking you should be able to further cancel this momentum by inputing different directions.
I could be wrong, feel free to correct me.
Next time you get hit by a powerful attack at high percentage (100% or so) try DI'ing with it. You will most likely fly off the screen. On the other hand, use both the C-stick and the analog stick to DI against it angling yourself to the corner of the screen (where you have the greatest chance of survival). This should be done alongside down airs and air doges (as this has been shown to cancel momentum to a degree). As a result of this, you should be able to survive to higher percentages.
I recognize that this a new game, and that aspects of it are entirely different from melee. ASDI has been removed as far as I can tell. Although, the benefits and usage of double stick DI still seems to be relevant. Not only does it allow you to effectively DI attacks in multiple directions (and if you are fast enough to imput it, you can change your trajectory drastically) allowing you to both cancel momentum and angle yourself for maximum survivability.
In order to be thorough, and hopefully return to the original question, I believe due to the "floatiness" of the characters you should be able to DI very well in either both the left or right directions. You can DI down to cancel momentum, but by double sticking you should be able to further cancel this momentum by inputing different directions.
I could be wrong, feel free to correct me.
Empy
Smash Ace
Seriously people I don´t know what´s going on but the OP is right, this is very easy to test, I just spend 15 minutes on training mode to find the answer. The answer is plain and simple, NO. Holding up when your are hit upwards does NOT do ANYTHING. Even holding sideways when send sideways on a large hitstun attack like Samus her fully charged beam does NOT affect your trajectory. You can however, SDI (smash DI) the hit, to be "teleported" a bit further BEFORE flying away from the attack, but this was already possible in Melee.
So again the answer to the thread question is NO, holding your stick (sticks) in a 90 degree angle when being hit in a 90 degree angle, is no different from not holding your sticks (or having them in neutral position).
So again the answer to the thread question is NO, holding your stick (sticks) in a 90 degree angle when being hit in a 90 degree angle, is no different from not holding your sticks (or having them in neutral position).
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
theres a big thread on DI. its either hereo nthe first page or the second. i dont think that Di is in brawl so move left or right when sent up or up / down when sent left or right.
then adjust accordingly. i dont know much lol
then adjust accordingly. i dont know much lol