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Advanced Techniques: Montage style: GLIDE TOSS!

dmbrandon

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
3,257
Location
The Sun.
My crew, Montage, has found a bunch of ATs, and we're gonig to share them with the world, despite the advantage we have with them. Hope you enjoy:

Glide Canceling:
People have seen Pit's wing canceling. Too bad that's not useful when you play against characters who are controlled by people. >_> Basically, when you glide, aim towards the ground and attack. The attack that comes out, when landed, will lose all lag frames, and will be able to combo, throw, or whatever you want. :D

Shield Cancel Grabs: (SCG)
Like jump canceling, if you tap the shield, and grab, the throw makes your character move faster, and the range is increased. EXTREMELY USEFUL.

Jab Fakes:
Most characters can do this. We know the spacies can't. How it works:
Jab once of twice, and during the last few frames of the second jab, you can shield quickly (Press the button, the shield shouldn't appear) and break it into either another jab, tilt, smash jump, grab or roll. People like Ike, and DeDeDe use this to it's maximum potential.


Hyphen Smashing
Almost any character can cancel a dash by hitting up on the c-stick and performing a smash attack. This is proven to come out as fast as Fox's Usmash in Melee while running. Hyphenspamming will also be faster than just slamming the c-stick. Note: It's called Hyphen because dashsmashing sounds lame. (Hyphen, like a dash):D

Reverse Grabbing
While running, smash the other direction, and Z. This will cause your character (Even with tether!!!) to turn and grab! VERY EFFECTIVE! (Not tested with all characters)

Thanks to everyone who sent this in!

*NEW*Glide Tossing
Glide Tossing may very well be the first TRUE advanced technique, as it's something not intended by the game's developers. While holding an item (So far, bombs and shield and throw the item. Your character should propel him/herself towards the target along side the item roughly the legnth of a roll.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTxAhvzBDZk
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HbiFZ1P6h0&feature=related
Credited to NikoK! also to I.T.P. for showing an easier way to perform it!

Some things we've found that aren't techyness:

  • [*]During ROBs ^b, as long as you hold it, you're still able to attack via the A button. Like Rob need more things. >_>
    [*]Pit's Shield will block ALLLLL attacks that hit it directly. Yeah. Take that Hyrule.
    [*]Missile canceling is still in, needle canceling is not.
    [*]Wolf's reflector, bloacks all incoming attacks. (Not tested on FS)
    [*]Zelda does damage when she reappears with Forore's Wind.
    [*]Online mode has host advantage.
    [*]Gannon can cancel his Utilt. How is unknown.
    [*]Fox's DB can be spammed against a walled enemy to win/stall a match!



We have a few more, but we're going to try and perfect them before showing the world.

If you have any techniques you want posted in our thread, or tidbits, please PM me. You will be credited for your findings, after they have been tested and approved! :D

Discuss!

Link to Noir's AdvTech Findings and Discussion: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140981
 

Krell

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
441
Location
Wilkes-Barre, PA
I have seen glide cancel used with Metaknight. Seems to work quite nicely...
And are you saying shield grabs are faster than normal grabs? I tend to use them by reflex, but that's interesting.
 

dmbrandon

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
3,257
Location
The Sun.
Too bad metaknight sucks. lololol

I should have elaborated: By faster, I mean your character will slide fasted without the extra lag frames. I'll edit. :D
 

GoldenGlove

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
636
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Aww, I when I clicked this thread I thought it was going to have an actual montage demonstrating advanced techs. Haha, oh well.

Also, thank you for not giving these ****ty pretentious names like "Montage-Grabbing" or something (*glares at "J-Shine"*).
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,258
Location
Massachusetts
Glide Canceling:
People have seen Pit's wing canceling. Too bad that's not useful when you play against characters who are controlled by people. >_> Basically, when you glade, aim towards the ground and attack. The attack that comes out, when landed, will lose all lag frames, and will be able to combo, throw, or whatever you want. :D
I totally called that.

Have you found any instant edgehogs or edge infinites yet? Do firefox/phantasm still work? If not, how about Falcon's Raptor Boost or Pit's Wings of Icarus?
 

Metal_Doc

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Messages
308
Location
Naples,FL
Wow, great job on discovering new advanced techniques.
I can't wait for the other ones you guys are planning on revealing to us. :)
 

dmbrandon

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
3,257
Location
The Sun.
I totally called that.

Have you found any instant edgehogs or edge infinites yet? Do firefox/phantasm still work? If not, how about Falcon's Raptor Boost or Pit's Wings of Icarus?
Firefoz/phantasm we've been trying, but to no avail. Pit's ^b has a dropping startup, so that won't work. I might wanna try G&W's ^b. hmm...
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
I totally called that.

Have you found any instant edgehogs or edge infinites yet? Do firefox/phantasm still work? If not, how about Falcon's Raptor Boost or Pit's Wings of Icarus?
Fall, up B, fall, up B, ect. Because of the auto sweetspot, you don't miss. I have a feeling this will be banned though.

P.S. Wing Cancel most certainly won't be useless. It's like DJC was for Ness. It lets you do aerials at almost ground level, and with short hops being so high I think this will be important for Pit. That and you can even combine it with RAR (reverse air... I forgot what the other R stood for) to for a really quick, ground level, turn around bair. I wonder if you can chain it from glide canceling.

Glide cancel->Wing cancel=too good.:laugh:
 

The Great Leon

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
2,372
Location
Modesto
im a bit confused with #3. maybe you could re-word it or put a vid up? a vid of shield cancelled grabs would be nice too.
 

PanzerOceania

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
640
Location
Salem, Oregon USA
already posted in Noir's thread and thought I'd ask here for maximum effectiveness.

OK I have a PROBABLY pointless questions as it is virtually impossible that you guys overlooked this, but I'll ask it anyway.

one of the first things mentioned as out was analogue shields. I was just messing around with SSB: MELEE and I noticed that if you do a grab WITH THE Z BUTTON and HELD IT DOWN, it would do a weak shield instead of a heavy one. Could someone just humour me and try holding down the Z button in BRAWL to see if they continue a shield after the grab, and if so if it is (99.999% sure) that it is just the same old shield, or maybe that (0.001% chance) that it might do a weak shield like in MELEE.

thanks for checking, I know there is probably nothing.
 

dmbrandon

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
3,257
Location
The Sun.
already posted in Noir's thread and thought I'd ask here for maximum effectiveness.

OK I have a PROBABLY pointless questions as it is virtually impossible that you guys overlooked this, but I'll ask it anyway.

one of the first things mentioned as out was analogue shields. I was just messing around with SSB: MELEE and I noticed that if you do a grab WITH THE Z BUTTON and HELD IT DOWN, it would do a weak shield instead of a heavy one. Could someone just humour me and try holding down the Z button in BRAWL to see if they continue a shield after the grab, and if so if it is (99.999% sure) that it is just the same old shield, or maybe that (0.001% chance) that it might do a weak shield like in MELEE.

thanks for checking, I know there is probably nothing.
It was a good point to bring up. However, it didn't work. It's a good try though! :D
 

Mecha Soul

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
92
Missile canceling is still in, needle canceling is not.
!!

So...I can jump with Samus, fire a missile just before landing, and all lag is removed? That missile cancel? >_>

If this is true, I am ecstatic. Do you have any vids or anything?
 

Xengri

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
404
Location
Orlando, FL
[*]Pit's Shield will block ALLLLL attacks that hit it directly. Yeah. Take that Hyrule.

This may be a stupid question, but those that go for Final smash attacks too? Like light arrows, Landmaster's beam, or even Marth's 1 hit thrust?
 

dmbrandon

Smash Master
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Messages
3,257
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The Sun.
@Mecha: yessir. There should be one on the first page?

Xengri: We haven't tested that. Final Smashes won't be used in competitive play, which is a shame. The game turns from smash bros, to turtle fest. 90% of the time, the person with the ball takes a stock. If you have the landmaster, it's 100%.
 

Xengri

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
404
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Orlando, FL
Xengri: We haven't tested that. Final Smashes won't be used in competitive play, which is a shame. The game turns from smash bros, to turtle fest. 90% of the time, the person with the ball takes a stock. If you have the landmaster, it's 100%.
Yeah, your right about them being disabled. Still it would be nice to know just how far Pit's mirror goes.
 

Igneous42

Smash Ace
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Sep 17, 2007
Messages
964
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Colorado
That thing with Rob's up B will work nice with the wiimote + nunchuck it will be very easy to hold B and push A .
 

Metallic_Igloo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
148
Location
Washington
man, I was hoping that it'd be easier to be competitve an get advanced techniques down...but I have no idea what your talking about: Cancel?, blah blah blah? huh?
 

PanzerOceania

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
640
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Salem, Oregon USA
Nice Igneous! different controller strategies already emerging, although they said that every controller will be completely customizable now right? so theoretically pros could start mapping either A or B to the trigger that they don't normally use.

correct?

This would allow for very quick and simultaneous pressing of A, B, and shield on any controller, which would in turn make some combos easier/faster and maybe make some new ones possible.
 

dmbrandon

Smash Master
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Dec 5, 2005
Messages
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Location
The Sun.
Blatherskite, this is a common technique used in smash for Samus. Upon landing, if you're shooting a missile and it comes out as you land, your character is free to move about without worrying about lag frames. While it may look like you're still doing the missile animations, you can do whatever you please.

And yes, you can map the controls. This is used often by my crew, most being turning up off for jumping. It's the sex of controller configs. :D
 

Cronos_Rainbow

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,067
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Aus
Thought I'd add a few.
-To grab an opponent in the back from behind. (you on right)left....right-left-right Z. Doing this really fast will move you quickly behind your opponent and grab from behind.
-Neutral B moves can be turned around like in Melee despite someone (possibly GimpyFish) saying this was no longer in the game.
-Due to the fact you can't stop a dash to down smash, down tilt, forward smash, jab because your character will 'skid' you can stop this by tapping the shield button followed by the desired attack. This will stop you dead rather than skidding (skidding is rather slow to finish)

Removed:

-A character may not drop from the edge during the duration of ledge invulnerability.
-Edge-canceling on airs is gone.
-Dash dancing can only be done tightly, though still works in partnership with fox-trotting(which differs between characters greatly)
-Wave landing is very very minor.
 

dmbrandon

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
3,257
Location
The Sun.
Thought I'd add a few.
-To grab an opponent in the back from behind. (you on right)left....right-left-right Z. Doing this really fast will move you quickly behind your opponent and grab from behind.
-Neutral B moves can be turned around like in Melee despite someone (possibly GimpyFish) saying this was no longer in the game.
-Due to the fact you can't stop a dash to down smash, down tilt, forward smash, jab because your character will 'skid' you can stop this by tapping the shield button followed by the desired attack. This will stop you dead rather than skidding (skidding is rather slow to finish)

Removed:

-A character may not drop from the edge during the duration of ledge invulnerability.
-Edge-canceling on airs is gone.
-Dash dancing can only be done tightly, though still works in partnership with fox-trotting(which differs between characters greatly)
-Wave landing is very very minor.
You can also stop your running with an upsmash. This works for almost ALL characters.

Not all nuetral b's will turn around.

The grabbing thing, you can just hit the opposite direction, and grab, sillyman.

Wave landing only works on inclined slopes.
 

PanzerOceania

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
640
Location
Salem, Oregon USA
Blatherskite, this is a common technique used in smash for Samus. Upon landing, if you're shooting a missile and it comes out as you land, your character is free to move about without worrying about lag frames. While it may look like you're still doing the missile animations, you can do whatever you please.

And yes, you can map the controls. This is used often by my crew, most being turning up off for jumping. It's the sex of controller configs. :D
Holy Smash, that's a good idea!
 

paper_crane

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
35
So lemme get this straight. In jab fakes, you're interrupting the last few frames of the jab by tapping L/R, but you're letting go of L/R before the shield comes up, which returns you to the standing animation and frees you to do something else, like another jab. Is that right?

Assuming I interpreted that correctly, couldn't you potentially tap L/R to interrupt the last few frames of any ground attack with IASA frames, like a tilt or a smash? And could you also interrupt the IASA frames by dashing, jumping, crouching, or attacking? This would be useful to know.

And to SCG, you start by dashing, and then you cancel the dash by tapping shield and letting go, which causes you to return to the standing animation--again, without the shield ever showing up. At this point you can use a standing grab, and you get extra range because of the momentum from the dash, so the SCG essentially functions like the JC dash grab from Melee.

So if I'm interpreting THAT correctly, then the shield button can be used to bypass the "skid" animation at the end of the dash, bringing you straight to the standing animation, without the shield ever showing up. That would be pretty critical information... assuming you can go straight to the standing animation out of a dash, you could then, for example, dash in the opposite direction immediately, or use any ground attack directly out of the dash.

Could you confirm any of this? It's all speculation, but it'd be awesome to find out which parts are true. Thanks for the clarification.

-paper_crane
 

dmbrandon

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,257
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The Sun.
Right on, PC. Sorry about the small info, I made the stage ban petition. (in my profile)

I'm currently working character ratings. Busybusybusy. :D
 
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