Drill Rest

L-cancelled down-drill to rest: This is an old technique, but since I was learning Jigglypuff, it's something I wanted to know a lot more about.

Video: Jigglypuff Drill Rest

The idea of drill-resting is that as Jigglypuff lands from doing a dair she can "flip" her enemies at certain percents, which leave them in slightly more lag, but more importantly, moves their hitbox into Jigglypuff for a brief rest opportunity following an l-cancel.

In practice, this works best against taller characters, not only because they might seem easier to flip, and their flip brings them further into you, but the taller they are the more likely Jigglypuff is to be able to crouch out of shield-grab danger.

To execute it, you need to short-hop and start a down-air asap. The timing on when you should FF (if at all) varies from character to character, so it's something you should get a feel for. Aim for their horizontal center, especially for wider characters, to score flips more often. Make sure you L-cancel, and then if you see them flip, rest. Keep in mind that sometimes you don't even want to rest immediately, but wait for their flipping body to come to you.

I have been unable to get this to work against Pikachu or Bowser. For everyone else I show the minimum and maximum percents it's guaranteed to work if you do it right (keep in mind that there is a 6% window depending on how "stale moves" your dair is):

46-139% Captain Falcon
49-146% Donkey Kong
45-135% Dr. Mario
44-122% Falco
00-118% Fox
00-107% Game & Watch
47-142% Ganondorf
41-127% Ice Climbers
00-106% Jigglypuff
00-114% Kirby
45-140% Link
45-135% Luigi
45-135% Mario
41-126% Marth
00-125% Mewtwo
48-131% Ness
42-128% Peach
00-102% Pichu
00-126% Roy
47-144% Samus
42-128% Sheik
00-141% Yoshi
40-125% Young Link
42-129% Zelda

So except for Bowser and Pikachu, if your foe is at least between 49% and 102%, then you are able to drill-rest them, assuming you're able to dair immediately around them without getting pwned. If you're a rest-happy Jiggs, I would recommend starting out with uptilts and reverse nairs, then if they get to 40+%, maybe try some of these.

As far as I can tell, crouch-cancelling does not impact your ability or inability to perform this move, nor the percents it will or will not work at.

The characters who get the "flip stun" without actually doing a full 360 degree saumersault are Dr. Mario, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Luigi, Mario, Ness, and Pichu.

For Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, and Kirby, they get stunned away from where you were attacking them, so you need to land all the hits on one side of them, then DI and land on the other side, in order to rest where they will twitch.

For Game & Watch, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Mewtwo, Pichu, Roy, and Yoshi, you don't necissarily have to flip them in order to rest from the drill. As such, the combo can start working even from 0%. Everyone else is necessary to flip, I believe.

As a general disclaimer before someone points out the obvious, DI can potentially avoid this combo, just like virtually any rest combo. The trick is to know how to get a free kill when they don't know about it, forget it once, mess it up, or the situation simply arises. As per usual, I'm investigating something I think is worthwhile myself, and therefore want to share with others for their enjoyment, enlightenment, or intrigue. Haters go elsewhere.

Edit: In conversation with my friends, I found myself saying that for the best drill-rest practice you should drill the women to see if they flip (Peach, Zelda, Sheik, Samus).

Phanna, this is awesome. Quite an extensive list that I can only imagine how much time it took to figure out. Kudos man, my only regret is that you didn't start playing Jigglypuff earlier!

See ya at gigabits.

:jigglypuf

The l-cancel for the drill I'm finding very difficult. Is it possible to l-cancel for only some well timed short-hopped->drill? That is, does the down air have to be started as soon as you short hop?
And if so, when to hit l?
Help would be appreciated!

Very nice reference list, phanna. I just want some extra clarification: are these percentage ranges precisely the ranges that the dair flips them, or are they based on some other criteria for "guaranteed" rests?

Gosu: You have to hit L (or R or Z) before, but no earlier than 7 frames before Jiggly lands. The same goes for all Lcanceling. You can Lcancel any aerial landing at any time (except for GW's N, U and B airs which can never be Lcancelled).

Thanks =)
I got it down pretty well now - and I'll remember that bit of info.
But now that I can shuffle this thing, I found it very difficult to actually flip the opponent - I've only practiced on fox and C. Falcon, but I've tried a fair number of times.
Fast falling d-air after reaching full height of short hop tends to flip fox the best, and DIing into C. F. has yielded the best results so far.
Any tips?

Great work phanna !
Amazing how much effort you expand .
Keep on going like that .

nice. does that mean this only work when you start it off the ground? how bout aerial approaches? Also, it looks like you are fast falling the very end of the drill to the l cancel, can you confirm this?

hmm... so more flipping to get the rest...

King did the reverse Nair rest, Froo

Phanna brings back the classic Dair rest.

That's it... I need to move into my new Apt. first but after that I'll investigate Pound -> Rest
Since I can't think of any moves that flip a character that haven't already been mentioned.

Phanna good job but as much as I love seeing you help the Jiggs community, I'm the best Jiggs in FL plz don't take that title away.

In Smash 64, one of Jiggly's staple combos was drill->utilt chain->rest. Does utilt still combo from the drill?

HyugaRicdeau said:

Very nice reference list, phanna. I just want some extra clarification: are these percentage ranges precisely the ranges that the dair flips them, or are they based on some other criteria for "guaranteed" rests?

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The lower % is the minimum percent I could manage to flip the foe at, and therefore get a rest, from a completely "stale moves" dair of 8% damage (as opposed to a maximum of 14% damage). The higher % is the maximum percent I can dair them into a flip without knocking them away with a completely "unstale" dair (full 14% damage). Therefore if your dair is unstale you can start it up to 6% sooner, and if it's completely stale you can execute the move up to 6% beyond the listed maximum.

The 8 characters that start from 0% are exceptions: Fox, Game & Watch, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Mewtwo, Pichu, Roy, and Yoshi - their actual "flip" animation doesn't start until somewhere around 40% (varies by character), but they can still be rested from the right non-flip stun animation. It's less guaranteed though, and as has been pointed out on the video, the combo count resets to 1 in these instances. If people would like, I can investigate when these characters begin their restable "flip," and thus when a more certain drill-rest combo is available.

doyoung2win said:

nice. does that mean this only work when you start it off the ground? how bout aerial approaches? Also, it looks like you are fast falling the very end of the drill to the l cancel, can you confirm this?

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Yes, you can flip people with a down aerial approach, but it's a less controlled environment, so it'll be harder to know when you can get it.

Fast-falling varies on the character - some it seems you can't FF against in order to flip them, whereas others you can. It's my experience that you should usually fast-fall during the 2nd-to-last hit, and try to land right next to their center. If anyone would like, I can re-examine each character and make a recommendation on when (or if) you should FF a sh dair against them.

Dr. Hyde said:

Phanna good job but as much as I love seeing you help the Jiggs community, I'm the best Jiggs in FL plz don't take that title away.

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AntiPeach said something similar in his YouTube comments, are you he? No offense, but I haven't heard of "HYDE" the FL jiggly until now, and I'm fairly confident that you are not a better Jigglypuff than all the other FL puffs like N2K7, Ray, Raistlin, Seibrik, Shin Chaos, TedBoosley, Vijin, Diego, RIP, HungryBox, Pasqual, Mankosuki, XIF, etc.

Well I don't get to go to that many tournaments but we shall see how things go after more tournaments start to pop up. And if I get a cap card for the computer.

PS yeah I'm the AntiPeach

phanna said:

AntiPeach said something similar in his YouTube comments, are you he? No offense, but I haven't heard of "HYDE" the FL jiggly until now, and I'm fairly confident that you are not a better Jigglypuff than all the other FL puffs like N2K7, Ray, Raistlin, Seibrik, Shin Chaos, TedBoosley, Vijin, Diego, RIP, HungryBox, Pasqual, Mankosuki, XIF, etc.

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Whoo, I was mentioned!

Dr. Hyde, there's plenty of tournaments in Florida all the time. Every month a store called Gigabits in Orlando holds a tournament that usually gets upwards of 50 people. Come try it out sometime.

hes in for a suprise, type one of the "im the best because i **** my friends theory" for newcomers

Raistlin said:

Whoo, I was mentioned!

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Hah, that's what I thought too. My Jiggs hasn't seen the light of day lately, I need to start using her more. Puff dittos on Thursday?

Edit: on topic, good stuff Phanna. I've been dair rested before but hadn't noticed the flip before.

doyoung2win said:

hes in for a suprise, type one of the "im the best because i **** my friends theory" for newcomers

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he wouldn´t be the first thinking that hes good and got ***** ...

This needs bumped. Also, have you tried doing this from the ledge, as in ledge-hop dair rest? It seems like a good idea, considering how often people run at the edge and attack to keep a Jiggs off of it.

Sliq said:

This needs bumped. Also, have you tried doing this from the ledge, as in ledge-hop dair rest? It seems like a good idea, considering how often people run at the edge and attack to keep a Jiggs off of it.

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Yes, I have several clips of that (and even more) ready for my upcoming jigglypuff combo video:

Phanna's Second Blue Resticle: Slippery and Tired

Wow... phanna, I cannot thank you enough for this thread. Just last week I found the two recent combo videos by RipN and Pointman Rob, and mysteriously after watching them suddenly I was managing to do up-air rest combos, and did my first wop escort to the death wall XD But still I couldn't help but wonder how RipN was doing those drill-Rest combos... I was going to ask about it and make a thread, when I found that one had already been done.

I bow to thee, Phana *bows*

couple of questions because i'm ********:

1) what IS the best way to DI the drill? i'm guessing away but with some of these things you never know if it's up. like Cfalc's dthrow. wtf?

2) i'm kind of confused. i know to start the drill ASAP from my shorthop, but do i need to hit them with the first and every consecutive hit, or do i just go in when i can?

3) not so much a question, just that phanna is awesome, and so are ze's threads.

Hazygoose said:

couple of questions because i'm ********:

1) what IS the best way to DI the drill? i'm guessing away but with some of these things you never know if it's up. like Cfalc's dthrow. wtf?

2) i'm kind of confused. i know to start the drill ASAP from my shorthop, but do i need to hit them with the first and every consecutive hit, or do i just go in when i can?

3) not so much a question, just that phanna is awesome, and so are ze's threads.

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About the DI, if you mean to avoid a drill-rest, try to DI and smash DI away from them (which may be behind or in front of them, but since Jiggly can DI a lot during the process, she can throw you off too).

The most important part is to hit the last or second-to-last hit. In general, I experience the best results if I fast-fall right as I do the second-to-last hit, it flips them a high percent of the time. Hitting the hits before that are good to lead into that, but it isn't necessary. For instance, I'll wear down someone's shield, and only hit them with the last few, before I drill-rest.

And thank you

You can do it on Bowser without the flip by crossing them up right after the last hit before landing, so that you're standing behind him while he has his back to you before resting. You can also do it that way against M2, Jiggs, and some others I forget.

EDIT: I looked at the video and it looks like you did that to ICs and a few others. Did you try it that way for Bowser? It should work.

Magus420 said:

EDIT: I looked at the video and it looks like you did that to ICs and a few others. Did you try it that way for Bowser? It should work.

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Got ya, Bowser and Pikachu were the only 2 I couldn't get. Yeah, I do reverse to Kirby, Icices, and Jigglypuff.

3 phantom rest in one match trying to do this


-____-

Hmmm... Not that I know of....

Drill with stale moves 100% SPIN = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XwjLXMPsSE

Im so jealous of u phanna

I HATE! U!! =D

lol, I always choke on these rests.

When I get em to flip, I miss the l-cancel.
When I do land the l-cancel, they don't flip.

and then it gets to the point where I just rest afterwards anyway. Part of me thinks 'hey maybe they're dumb and itll hit' but mostly its cause I just wanna die.

once in a while tho, it all comes together. then every failure up to that point is 1000% worth it. :D

Practice makes perfect :]

would people with great DI ability be able to get out of this easily?

Practically every combo in Melee can be avoided with good DI. This is not an exception.

Kaizer said:

Practically every combo in Melee can be avoided with good DI. This is not an exception.

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yea, i know that lol. i just meant is it something that someone can easily get out of

about to incorporate this old meta into the new meta, thanks phanna.

Dr. Hyde said:

hmm... so more flipping to get the rest...

King did the reverse Nair rest, Froo

Phanna brings back the classic Dair rest.

That's it... I need to move into my new Apt. first but after that I'll investigate Pound -> Rest
Since I can't think of any moves that flip a character that haven't already been mentioned.

Phanna good job but as much as I love seeing you help the Jiggs community, I'm the best Jiggs in FL plz don't take that title away.

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LOL this is so funny now because hbox