Wolf
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Match-Up Discussion #12! Wolf
- Thread starter Steel
- Start date
Go ^_^
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
Epic lol at that pic XD. I'll just sat this: Wolf is annoying. He can camp and his blaster is pretty good for screwing up potential attack combinations you are trying to use because of the stun.
Wolf can't camp for **** imo.. we have plenty of ways to deal with his blaster and power shielding being one.
His fsmash is really hard to get used to at first, what you want to do is space yourself just outside that range so he cant abuse it (or if he does just punish).
I believe we have a simliar 0-death on him just like falco, though I can't be sure on that.
His recovery is pretty easy to gimp, if you know he will go for the ledge with his up b just time it so you can abuse your invincibility frames (obviously) and watch him fall to his death.
On some stages (battlefield and SV) he is hard to ledge trap because of his forward b warp, if you can predict it then be ready to punish.
He relies on his fsmash and bair for damage racking.
Meh, that's it for now
His fsmash is really hard to get used to at first, what you want to do is space yourself just outside that range so he cant abuse it (or if he does just punish).
I believe we have a simliar 0-death on him just like falco, though I can't be sure on that.
His recovery is pretty easy to gimp, if you know he will go for the ledge with his up b just time it so you can abuse your invincibility frames (obviously) and watch him fall to his death.
On some stages (battlefield and SV) he is hard to ledge trap because of his forward b warp, if you can predict it then be ready to punish.
He relies on his fsmash and bair for damage racking.
Meh, that's it for now
I had a feeling you'd do this. I always group TL and Wolf together for some reason.
I'll tell you now that good Wolf players will approach and space with Bair. On the ground, his Fsmash covers like a 1/4 of FD. I know it has two hits, so perhaps if you get caught in the middle, you can DI away and you'll only suffer minor knockback and damage (it also trips at mid-percentages). It lags at the end so you can punish from there.
A more offensive Wolf will fall prey to Ftilt since they're really forced to aerial approaches due to both low dash and walking speed.
His Uair is good for juggle traps and exposes your weakness of being weak below you.
That being said, you too can weave in and out with Fair. He's a fastfaller so I think you have a 0-to-death combo on him, as well as a natural juggle trap as his Dair is a laggy spike instead of the torpedo spin kick crap the other two spacies have.
He's easy to edgehog since his recovery is so-so, but remember to refresh your invincibility otherwise you might pay the prey since his Side-B if sweetspotted is some sort of gayness.
He can scar on stages with angled slopes, meaning he can recover onto the sides and be ready to dish out whatever. Human reaction might be slow, but a person conditioned to know WHEN he/she will scar can be potentially dangerous to you the edgeguarder.
He can pseudo-scar by press down so the ledge doesn't register him on non-angled slopes, but it really means he's recovering high off of Side-B that way.
His Up+B is probably never used aside recovery, since you can DI away from him/opposite direction and perfect shield the last hit which actually does something.
He can techchase with Dthrow, and on Yoshi's Island Brawl, if he Side-B on the slopes facing the stage, he'll scar the stage to the middle (like a wavedash) and can sweetspot easily that way. A random tidbit of info. He may be able to do this on other areas where he can face a slope as well.
Just throwing what I know, he's not particularly popular down here.
I'll tell you now that good Wolf players will approach and space with Bair. On the ground, his Fsmash covers like a 1/4 of FD. I know it has two hits, so perhaps if you get caught in the middle, you can DI away and you'll only suffer minor knockback and damage (it also trips at mid-percentages). It lags at the end so you can punish from there.
A more offensive Wolf will fall prey to Ftilt since they're really forced to aerial approaches due to both low dash and walking speed.
His Uair is good for juggle traps and exposes your weakness of being weak below you.
That being said, you too can weave in and out with Fair. He's a fastfaller so I think you have a 0-to-death combo on him, as well as a natural juggle trap as his Dair is a laggy spike instead of the torpedo spin kick crap the other two spacies have.
He's easy to edgehog since his recovery is so-so, but remember to refresh your invincibility otherwise you might pay the prey since his Side-B if sweetspotted is some sort of gayness.
He can scar on stages with angled slopes, meaning he can recover onto the sides and be ready to dish out whatever. Human reaction might be slow, but a person conditioned to know WHEN he/she will scar can be potentially dangerous to you the edgeguarder.
He can pseudo-scar by press down so the ledge doesn't register him on non-angled slopes, but it really means he's recovering high off of Side-B that way.
His Up+B is probably never used aside recovery, since you can DI away from him/opposite direction and perfect shield the last hit which actually does something.
He can techchase with Dthrow, and on Yoshi's Island Brawl, if he Side-B on the slopes facing the stage, he'll scar the stage to the middle (like a wavedash) and can sweetspot easily that way. A random tidbit of info. He may be able to do this on other areas where he can face a slope as well.
Just throwing what I know, he's not particularly popular down here.
∫unk
Smash Master
wolf is meh
good wolfs are eh
that's about it
good wolfs are eh
that's about it
If only I could provide such insight with phrases such as you. =/
Btw, you're winning the MM against Steel aren't you?
ZHMT
Smash Lord
Hmm so much was covered already..
If you mess up the spacing that Steel mentioned above, Wolf's fsmash doesnt make contact with your shield, he instead can go through it and crossup. His fsmash also has some bad ending lag so you can punish with dancing blade after he goes through your shield.
His dsmash is pretty gay....almost as gay as Metaknights imo <<, I tend to shield it in front and dancing blade as the second part ends.
His lasers (as said above) arent too much a problem.
Everything else was mentioned already, Spacing fairs and dtilts will work well against wolf and a simple fair can gimp him
If you mess up the spacing that Steel mentioned above, Wolf's fsmash doesnt make contact with your shield, he instead can go through it and crossup. His fsmash also has some bad ending lag so you can punish with dancing blade after he goes through your shield.
His dsmash is pretty gay....almost as gay as Metaknights imo <<, I tend to shield it in front and dancing blade as the second part ends.
His lasers (as said above) arent too much a problem.
Everything else was mentioned already, Spacing fairs and dtilts will work well against wolf and a simple fair can gimp him
Yes, but his half-*** one line posts are what I consider cheating. Dunno if he'll get the money.
∫unk
Smash Master
One line post right here.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
i think fthrow to tip may work on wolf like it does fox falco if not then w/e
fsmash is a really dumb punisher hits you from like a mile away so just watch it
wolfs dsmash is just stupid as hell i mean it has pretty good shield pushback and it kills good if they don't spam it like an idiot
blaster is annoying because the blade is safe and the projectile is big but you can jump over it pretty safely
WATCH OUT FOR GRAB RELEASE TO SIDE B lol, that **** will kill you pretty early i think around 100 even if u DI and it actually works. it always sweetspots if he gets the air release which i think always happens as long as he doesnt keep jabbing you.
wolfs jab is annoying too like sometimes the combo gets him stuck in the middle of your shield and makes it a little awkward to punish
forward beeee is amazing obviously it punishes like everything ever
fair makes wolf feel like melee falco with his recovery. if you get caught in the up b you can just spam c stick forward till it comes out because the stun is so low. you can up b obviously because its invincible but fair is better if you can get it to come out cuz it doesnt send him like straight up like the up b does
wolf is stupid lol
fsmash is a really dumb punisher hits you from like a mile away so just watch it
wolfs dsmash is just stupid as hell i mean it has pretty good shield pushback and it kills good if they don't spam it like an idiot
blaster is annoying because the blade is safe and the projectile is big but you can jump over it pretty safely
WATCH OUT FOR GRAB RELEASE TO SIDE B lol, that **** will kill you pretty early i think around 100 even if u DI and it actually works. it always sweetspots if he gets the air release which i think always happens as long as he doesnt keep jabbing you.
wolfs jab is annoying too like sometimes the combo gets him stuck in the middle of your shield and makes it a little awkward to punish
forward beeee is amazing obviously it punishes like everything ever
fair makes wolf feel like melee falco with his recovery. if you get caught in the up b you can just spam c stick forward till it comes out because the stun is so low. you can up b obviously because its invincible but fair is better if you can get it to come out cuz it doesnt send him like straight up like the up b does
wolf is stupid lol
Hype
Smash Lord
always CP lylat, it messes up his recovery so much.
I think as long as you're touching the ground, you don't jump unless you press X/Y/whatever to jump. So keep in mind to try to get an early release from direction stick, A+B, and C-stick only.
Didn't know Wolf had release combos too. That release combo sounds like it'd work pretty good against MK. o_O
Good sh*t Ryan. Not that I personally know you but having Celebi as an avatar must mean something.
3xSwords
Smash Lord
He also does Fair, and retreats it. So something to watch out for, but I think they won't do it as much as fair would absolutely **** it, unlike his bair.
Perfect Shield blasters and if he ever blasters close to you, do counter.
His d-throw is a good trap and you might want to watch out for his dash attack cancelled up smash, doesn't have much range but can be unexpected.
His u-air actually isn't that great of a trap due to its small range and you can FF fair and hit with the bottom of the arc and beat it.
Also air grab release to sideB should not work on Marth. And any bad spacing on your shield obviously punish with DS or DB or JC fair.
Blah idk wolf, so I can't say much more with full confidence that its true.
Also I've been wondering for a long time now actually, can you gimp wolf's sideB like you can falco's or fox's?
Perfect Shield blasters and if he ever blasters close to you, do counter.
His d-throw is a good trap and you might want to watch out for his dash attack cancelled up smash, doesn't have much range but can be unexpected.
His u-air actually isn't that great of a trap due to its small range and you can FF fair and hit with the bottom of the arc and beat it.
Also air grab release to sideB should not work on Marth. And any bad spacing on your shield obviously punish with DS or DB or JC fair.
Blah idk wolf, so I can't say much more with full confidence that its true.
Also I've been wondering for a long time now actually, can you gimp wolf's sideB like you can falco's or fox's?
Ryan-K
Smash Master
yeah if you're touching the ground but i think he may pick you up anyway because he grabs pretty high idk, but its always worked for me when using wolf vs marth so shrug idk
yeah it might, someone called ether posted that a while ago it worked on marth, dunno if it works on mk cuz iirc he falls pretty short horizontally to get hit by the sweetspot, which is why he falls victim to some grab releases that others dont despite his trajectory
also wolf has a sliding usmash like wario/snake but it doesnt og terribly far, but idk if that would work out of a grab too or what lol
also your celebi comment confuses me LOL celebi is like my favorite pokemon from when i used to play plus its a set avatar >_> but thanks lol
3xswords: yeah you can gimp his forward b you just gotta be careful because the sweetspot hurts bad if he does it early and sometimes it spikes but idk when it spikes. in fact i think its easier to gimp than falcos because the startup is slow (it seems slow to me anyway) and he goes at an angle which means he has to come from below to get the edge and if he goes level with you like fox or falco you can hit him before he lands or as he lands
if he shortens his side b however he stops but he still has horizontal momentum so he can actually go a further distance sometimes if he shortens it than if he didnt its mad wierd
also grab release side b works on marth im 99% sure only cuz im too lazy to turn on brawl right now, try it right now dude just grab marth and let go then side b as soon as he gets let go, he gets hit its hilarious LMAO. i dunno if you can change your own trajectory out of a grab release but whenevr i do it as long as you dont spam jab as he lets go he will fly in the air. it's a reliable killer at good percents
yeah it might, someone called ether posted that a while ago it worked on marth, dunno if it works on mk cuz iirc he falls pretty short horizontally to get hit by the sweetspot, which is why he falls victim to some grab releases that others dont despite his trajectory
also wolf has a sliding usmash like wario/snake but it doesnt og terribly far, but idk if that would work out of a grab too or what lol
also your celebi comment confuses me LOL celebi is like my favorite pokemon from when i used to play plus its a set avatar >_> but thanks lol
3xswords: yeah you can gimp his forward b you just gotta be careful because the sweetspot hurts bad if he does it early and sometimes it spikes but idk when it spikes. in fact i think its easier to gimp than falcos because the startup is slow (it seems slow to me anyway) and he goes at an angle which means he has to come from below to get the edge and if he goes level with you like fox or falco you can hit him before he lands or as he lands
if he shortens his side b however he stops but he still has horizontal momentum so he can actually go a further distance sometimes if he shortens it than if he didnt its mad wierd
also grab release side b works on marth im 99% sure only cuz im too lazy to turn on brawl right now, try it right now dude just grab marth and let go then side b as soon as he gets let go, he gets hit its hilarious LMAO. i dunno if you can change your own trajectory out of a grab release but whenevr i do it as long as you dont spam jab as he lets go he will fly in the air. it's a reliable killer at good percents
You guys have pretty much everything... Watch out for some jab mixups, but wolf shouldn't be an issue. Lylat is bad for wolf. VERY bad for wolf. Many wolf mains prefer yoshi's island for all the stuff vietgeek said, plus straight sides make it easier to recover, so ban it if you think you need to. If wolf fsmashes, spotdodge to any attack, its a very punishable punisher. Use your sword to its fullest potential, because wolf is not a fan of the disjointed. Also, marth will be released on the ground from a grab unless he jumps, but on the ground a lot of wolfs will dsmash you afterwards when you're at kill %.
There was pretty much nothing new there ._. But whats this 0 to death thing that marth might have on wolf?
There was pretty much nothing new there ._. But whats this 0 to death thing that marth might have on wolf?
@ishieymoro
Fthrow > Fthrow > Spike > Edge hog
Fthrow > Fthrow > Spike > Edge hog
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
Random Wolf Stuff-
Alot of Wolf players never utlize going -past- the edge on Lylat and recovring at a backwards angle instead. Most opponents never edge hog this as it looks impossible but works better than if he goes straight up and bonks his head on the ledge like an idiot. Wolf's Side B can teach those pesky D3's and Meta's to not be too confident in through out fairs and bairs to edgeguard when they suddenly find themselves flying straight down.
Killing with Wolf is simple and easy. Spot dodge to Dsmash is the most obvious (and thus the most commonly protected against) but it probably will not work on Metaknight who has an even better (and more importantly ever so slightly quicker) dsmash. If Wolf wants to kill Meta he's better off popping underneath a glide with a DAC Upsmash or using Utilt to kill Meta off the top at some absurdly low percentages.
Stage scarring is cool but never works once the opponent knows you can do it (and is thus practically useless in high level play as you can expect to stage scar into Fsmashes instead), they will just not stand there obviously.
Wolf's throws are just great. Dthrow is so amazing it's not even funny, being able to "combo" into a laser on any bad tech rolls (also chains into tipper Fsmashes on some chars) Up throw chains well with his arials and and Fthrow leads to great edgeguarding. It's worth noting that Dthrow also sends at a very low angle, completely screwing over characters like Bowser and Donkey Kong for the easy Dair spike. Wolf's reflector is a great countering measure to toss out when the opponent thinks they have your next move so figured out. He can't walk people off the stage with it (or at least I've never been able to, his land speed is terrible) like Fox can to slower chars though, but it can often lead to a free grab on the ground.
Overall, Wolf's matchups are pretty much amazing. He has several good and even matchups, hanging well with the top tiers and high tiers. His ony two completely hopeless matchups IMO are Falco and D3. against falco, he's almost guarenteed to die to a chain grab to spike as soon as it happens and his terrible recovery leaves him with little options in the situation especially on stages like Final Destination. Wolf can try to pick a stage where he limits this ability such as Yoshi's island, where he can usually pop away from the spike and come back. On Jungle Japes, Wolf can do alright if he can keep control of the pit. Failure to do so will have him eating a spike into the water again. The Dedede matchupo is similiar except without the spiking. It's better to just carry a secondary for these two matchups. (I actually recommend Yoshi as a secondary for Wolf players myself).
As for the specific Marth vs Wolf. Failure to take Wolf seriously is suicidal. Some of his "tricks" are almsot devestating to Marth's that are afraid to mix up their game against different opponents. For instance, too many fairs will have Marth getting shot in the face by lasers -alot-. Wolf will not be afraid to play as gay as he possibly can against Marths because he needs to avoid those devestating sword swings. Getting in close with Dancing blade is key and the pressure -must- be kept on. When wolf is up close right in your face, it's often benificial to randomly counter (especially if marth is 90 or more as a Dsmash is most likely coming). If wolf is delivering his base A habs, just Dolphin slash it and proceeds to punishing in the air. If you can, keep him in the air with Uairs as long as possible. He falls fast so you may have trouble hitting him with more than two, but you can usually land two and a bair at lower percents if you do so correctly.
Alot of Wolf players never utlize going -past- the edge on Lylat and recovring at a backwards angle instead. Most opponents never edge hog this as it looks impossible but works better than if he goes straight up and bonks his head on the ledge like an idiot. Wolf's Side B can teach those pesky D3's and Meta's to not be too confident in through out fairs and bairs to edgeguard when they suddenly find themselves flying straight down.
Killing with Wolf is simple and easy. Spot dodge to Dsmash is the most obvious (and thus the most commonly protected against) but it probably will not work on Metaknight who has an even better (and more importantly ever so slightly quicker) dsmash. If Wolf wants to kill Meta he's better off popping underneath a glide with a DAC Upsmash or using Utilt to kill Meta off the top at some absurdly low percentages.
Stage scarring is cool but never works once the opponent knows you can do it (and is thus practically useless in high level play as you can expect to stage scar into Fsmashes instead), they will just not stand there obviously.
Wolf's throws are just great. Dthrow is so amazing it's not even funny, being able to "combo" into a laser on any bad tech rolls (also chains into tipper Fsmashes on some chars) Up throw chains well with his arials and and Fthrow leads to great edgeguarding. It's worth noting that Dthrow also sends at a very low angle, completely screwing over characters like Bowser and Donkey Kong for the easy Dair spike. Wolf's reflector is a great countering measure to toss out when the opponent thinks they have your next move so figured out. He can't walk people off the stage with it (or at least I've never been able to, his land speed is terrible) like Fox can to slower chars though, but it can often lead to a free grab on the ground.
Overall, Wolf's matchups are pretty much amazing. He has several good and even matchups, hanging well with the top tiers and high tiers. His ony two completely hopeless matchups IMO are Falco and D3. against falco, he's almost guarenteed to die to a chain grab to spike as soon as it happens and his terrible recovery leaves him with little options in the situation especially on stages like Final Destination. Wolf can try to pick a stage where he limits this ability such as Yoshi's island, where he can usually pop away from the spike and come back. On Jungle Japes, Wolf can do alright if he can keep control of the pit. Failure to do so will have him eating a spike into the water again. The Dedede matchupo is similiar except without the spiking. It's better to just carry a secondary for these two matchups. (I actually recommend Yoshi as a secondary for Wolf players myself).
As for the specific Marth vs Wolf. Failure to take Wolf seriously is suicidal. Some of his "tricks" are almsot devestating to Marth's that are afraid to mix up their game against different opponents. For instance, too many fairs will have Marth getting shot in the face by lasers -alot-. Wolf will not be afraid to play as gay as he possibly can against Marths because he needs to avoid those devestating sword swings. Getting in close with Dancing blade is key and the pressure -must- be kept on. When wolf is up close right in your face, it's often benificial to randomly counter (especially if marth is 90 or more as a Dsmash is most likely coming). If wolf is delivering his base A habs, just Dolphin slash it and proceeds to punishing in the air. If you can, keep him in the air with Uairs as long as possible. He falls fast so you may have trouble hitting him with more than two, but you can usually land two and a bair at lower percents if you do so correctly.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
WOWOWOW i cant believe i forgot the shine good **** infernorage
wolfs shine may look wierd at first but it is basically invincible until it hits so dont try to hit him out of it early because he'll just fly through you
i agree though i think wolf is underrated he just has wierd moves like nair which has stun at the start but then has no stun literally near the end
uhh his fair auto cancels but its a good killer so watch out for it
the sliding usmash, idk how often people use it but it has good range
ftilt hits like the knee in that it has alot of hitlag lol, it also has 2 hits so it looks deceiving dont let go of your shield too early
wolf has good range and better air mobility than wario so hes kind of odd lol
wolfs shine may look wierd at first but it is basically invincible until it hits so dont try to hit him out of it early because he'll just fly through you
i agree though i think wolf is underrated he just has wierd moves like nair which has stun at the start but then has no stun literally near the end
uhh his fair auto cancels but its a good killer so watch out for it
the sliding usmash, idk how often people use it but it has good range
ftilt hits like the knee in that it has alot of hitlag lol, it also has 2 hits so it looks deceiving dont let go of your shield too early
wolf has good range and better air mobility than wario so hes kind of odd lol
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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If Wolf touches Marth's shield with any move other then his laser he gets rocked.
Just saying.
Just saying.
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
Oh about the DAC Usmash, it sldies about half the length of Smashville from what I've tested with it. It's distance varries alot on how perfectly you input your DAC, Wolf having a -very- quick input in comparison to some chars.
Ftilt has two types of hits in that it has a shield eating double hit with nice pushback and a "tipper" version that just has knockback but little damage.
EDIT: I agree wih Emblem Lord in that Wolf attacking your shield outright is probably the best thing that can happen to you (especially at any higher percentage). A chaing rab or Dolphin slash will work wonders in that situation.
Ftilt has two types of hits in that it has a shield eating double hit with nice pushback and a "tipper" version that just has knockback but little damage.
EDIT: I agree wih Emblem Lord in that Wolf attacking your shield outright is probably the best thing that can happen to you (especially at any higher percentage). A chaing rab or Dolphin slash will work wonders in that situation.
deftdefier
Smash Rookie
Marth has a chain grab (fthrow) on wolf from 0% to approximately 25% or so (not so sure on the exact percent). You can fthrow > dair off the ledge if you happen to grab him with his back to the ledge at very low percents.
Edit: I obviously didn't read any of the second page >.>
Wolf's reflector is only invincible during the initial frames. Also, its range is very limited; therefore, if you're spacing properly it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Fair zoning pretty much takes care of it
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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Also since Marth can DI out of Wolf's up b, Marth can DI out of it and then up b towards the stage to stage spike Wolf.
So Marth can run off fair and if it doesn't hit and Wolf up b's he can still stage spike him. So this way Marth can cover Wolf's options when he tries to recover.
So Marth can run off fair and if it doesn't hit and Wolf up b's he can still stage spike him. So this way Marth can cover Wolf's options when he tries to recover.
._. Chain grabs are not good eats for wolf.
Infernorage is right, yoshi DOES make a good secondary for wolf
DACUS is used after dthrow sometimes, but you can usually attack him before he attacks you, just don't let it catch you off guard. The shine isn't as useful for wolf in this matchup because of marth's disjointed hitboxes, if you have good spacing it shouldn't be an issue. Wolf can also fair through your shield and grab you from behind, so watch out for it. He's an easy juggling target, so stay below him and get that free damage in. Most wolfs will avoid upB whenever possible for recovery, but you're marth, screw the possible spike from sideb, edgeguard wolf to hell and back.
Infernorage is right, yoshi DOES make a good secondary for wolf
DACUS is used after dthrow sometimes, but you can usually attack him before he attacks you, just don't let it catch you off guard. The shine isn't as useful for wolf in this matchup because of marth's disjointed hitboxes, if you have good spacing it shouldn't be an issue. Wolf can also fair through your shield and grab you from behind, so watch out for it. He's an easy juggling target, so stay below him and get that free damage in. Most wolfs will avoid upB whenever possible for recovery, but you're marth, screw the possible spike from sideb, edgeguard wolf to hell and back.
Wolf:
Blaster Spam
Approach?
Yes: Get close, try to hit: Reflector
try to spot dodge/perfect shield: Jab combo'd
Not close enough to hit yourself but get hit by blaster spam: Get fsmashed.
Get fsmashed but shield it and you try to punish? get dsmashed.
No:
Repeat blaster spam.
;_;
The Shine is more useful than Marth's Up B with the invincibility frames. I hate Wolf because of Marth's lack of a projectile, I really think he's the only spacey with the potential to have the advantage over Marth.
I don't really get ***** by Wolf it's just I find that my dancing blade game gets shut down and I have to overly rely on grabs. I also find I'm forced to take the gamble of using counter (something I seldom use).
In tournaments I avoid the match up. I'll go another character if I know they'll go Wolf.
Blaster Spam
Approach?
Yes: Get close, try to hit: Reflector
try to spot dodge/perfect shield: Jab combo'd
Not close enough to hit yourself but get hit by blaster spam: Get fsmashed.
Get fsmashed but shield it and you try to punish? get dsmashed.
No:
Repeat blaster spam.
;_;
The Shine is more useful than Marth's Up B with the invincibility frames. I hate Wolf because of Marth's lack of a projectile, I really think he's the only spacey with the potential to have the advantage over Marth.
I don't really get ***** by Wolf it's just I find that my dancing blade game gets shut down and I have to overly rely on grabs. I also find I'm forced to take the gamble of using counter (something I seldom use).
In tournaments I avoid the match up. I'll go another character if I know they'll go Wolf.
Emblem Lord
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If you shield an f-smash or anything from Wolf he is ****ed and eats up b.
Also, Wolf can't laser to f-smash. You must have tried to attack right after getting hit.
Which you should not being doing.
Wolf is just weird to fight and space against. But really it's not that bad.
Also, Wolf can't laser to f-smash. You must have tried to attack right after getting hit.
Which you should not being doing.
Wolf is just weird to fight and space against. But really it's not that bad.
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
I know this is a bit early, but what do you guys want to call this one as of now? I'm definitely thinking in the 65-35 to 55-45 range, but what are you guys thinking? And I don't know much about tourney Wolfs ever use Side-B on land as an anti-aerial attack if you try to short hop approach them?
I didn't say I'd always get hit, but for Wolf it's very easy to reset the situation of camping, unlike let's say Toon Link who once you're in their zone falls apart. As I editted in, in tournaments I'll avoid the match up. Wolf happens to be the only character in tournament play who I will switch to another to avoid (this includes MKs and Snakes).
3xSwords
Smash Lord
Well if you master Perfect Shielding you will have the frame advantage over Wolf needed to punish if he uses blasters to camp.
I think its just a personal bad matchup for you, which is understandable.
Also is there a way to get out of the two hit f-tilt once you are hit by the first part?
And my previous question was answered sort of, but what I really wanted to know was if you could hit Wolf out of his SideB midway?
I think its just a personal bad matchup for you, which is understandable.
Also is there a way to get out of the two hit f-tilt once you are hit by the first part?
And my previous question was answered sort of, but what I really wanted to know was if you could hit Wolf out of his SideB midway?
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
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Emblem Lord, we need to do some Wolf vs Marth friendlies. Come to a tournament or something.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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Why would ask me to do such a thing?
Asking me to go to a Brawl tournament...
D...DO YOU HATE ME OR SOMETHING!?!?!?! T_T
Asking me to go to a Brawl tournament...
D...DO YOU HATE ME OR SOMETHING!?!?!?! T_T
OK here's some stuff I gotta throw in, from the point of view of somebody, who mains Wolf.
It's clearly 60:40 in Marth's favour.
Just to clarify some stuff, that isn't 100% spot-on:
Wolf doesn't use Blaster for camping. It's just too slow for that. The usual Wolf tactic uses Blaster + Shine to force the enemy to approach (Shine for campers and Blaster for opponents without projectiles). This is a non-issue against Marth, the only use for Blaster will be to delay Marths approach or to tighten up his defense...
Also note, that a good Wolf will never spam his smashes. Fsmash is a punishing move and nothing else. Dsmash is for finishing only, so Wolf will most likely keep it fresh, unless he can't use anything else in a certain situation.
Based on my pesonal experience, I can say, that Wolf won't spam his smashes against Marth and won't use Shine too much either - Wolf mainers are well aware of Marths excellen options out of the Shield and such laggy moves are just too dangerous against him.
I find the best way to deal with Marth is to use the crossover fair to reverse grab or fast bairs to outspeed him.
Well...to the match-up itself:
Anybody who plays against Wolf (or uses him himself) should know, that spacing is very big deal for Wolf - although there's other stuff about him, most of his games boil down, whether he spaces well or not. That's why Marth has the advantage here: Marths spacing > wolfs spacing. Marth can beat the wall of Wolf easily with fair, upB or utilt even if Wolf spaces his bairs perfectly. This pretty much messes up Wolfs preferred defensive playstyle. Marths offense is good enough to deal with it - he has the right tools to do so (a loooong sword ;( ).
Things to watch out for are Wolfs power, his power and his power. Marth is a very light character and Dsmash can finish him off at very low percentages, if you careless.
The easiest way for Marth to win is to focus on his defensive - offense wise he beats Wolf anyways.
It's clearly 60:40 in Marth's favour.
Just to clarify some stuff, that isn't 100% spot-on:
Wolf doesn't use Blaster for camping. It's just too slow for that. The usual Wolf tactic uses Blaster + Shine to force the enemy to approach (Shine for campers and Blaster for opponents without projectiles). This is a non-issue against Marth, the only use for Blaster will be to delay Marths approach or to tighten up his defense...
Also note, that a good Wolf will never spam his smashes. Fsmash is a punishing move and nothing else. Dsmash is for finishing only, so Wolf will most likely keep it fresh, unless he can't use anything else in a certain situation.
Based on my pesonal experience, I can say, that Wolf won't spam his smashes against Marth and won't use Shine too much either - Wolf mainers are well aware of Marths excellen options out of the Shield and such laggy moves are just too dangerous against him.
I find the best way to deal with Marth is to use the crossover fair to reverse grab or fast bairs to outspeed him.
Well...to the match-up itself:
Anybody who plays against Wolf (or uses him himself) should know, that spacing is very big deal for Wolf - although there's other stuff about him, most of his games boil down, whether he spaces well or not. That's why Marth has the advantage here: Marths spacing > wolfs spacing. Marth can beat the wall of Wolf easily with fair, upB or utilt even if Wolf spaces his bairs perfectly. This pretty much messes up Wolfs preferred defensive playstyle. Marths offense is good enough to deal with it - he has the right tools to do so (a loooong sword ;( ).
Things to watch out for are Wolfs power, his power and his power. Marth is a very light character and Dsmash can finish him off at very low percentages, if you careless.
The easiest way for Marth to win is to focus on his defensive - offense wise he beats Wolf anyways.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
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Wolves are easy. Aside from the aforementioned 0 to death combo, I've landed fthrow - fthrow - fthrow - fair - fair - nair, and Wolf could not recover, lol. The nair is avoidable though.
As EL said, Wolf can't touch Marth's shield or he gets zapped.
Dancing Blade throws him off the map, and Wolf's options from the ledge are BAD.
If you're fighting a good Wolf, what you really want to watch out for are his underused tilts.
Also, begin breaking free of Wolf's grabs immediately, he has one of the fastest pummels in the game.
I think this match-up is 70-30 in Marth's favor.
As EL said, Wolf can't touch Marth's shield or he gets zapped.
Dancing Blade throws him off the map, and Wolf's options from the ledge are BAD.
If you're fighting a good Wolf, what you really want to watch out for are his underused tilts.
Also, begin breaking free of Wolf's grabs immediately, he has one of the fastest pummels in the game.
I think this match-up is 70-30 in Marth's favor.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Fun stuff ^_^
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
wolfs tilts aren't that great pierce, they shouldn't be a problem.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Lol they don't outrange marth but his tilts are pretty good
BacklashMarth
Smash Lord
Is this a proven fact? It doesnt seem right to me. But i could b mistaken since i dont test things like that.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Ofcourse its fact lol jk
But yea marth's tilts outrange wolf's
But yea marth's tilts outrange wolf's