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Where are you taking me?

Where are you taking me?

Contents
  1. Intro
  2. Rules
  3. Stage Info
  4. Battlefield (BF)
  5. Yoshi's Story (YS)
  6. Fountain of Dreams (FoD)
  7. Dreamland (DL)
  8. Final Destination (FD)
  9. Pokemon Stadium (PS)

1. Intro

It can be hard to know which stage you should want to go to for each matchup you may face.
The largest factor is in fact personal preference/comfort.
However, there are some hard facts to keep in mind about certain matchups.
This guide aims to provide you with the information to make your own decision about your best counterpicks.


Please, if you know anything about a character/stage/MU that I don't have listed, PM me or comment on the guide. I don't feel that I have enough experience to make this guide as good as it could be.
Info I'd like to have:
Good stages for Samus to missile cancel on.




2. Rules

Neutral Stages:
  • Battlefield (BF)
  • Yoshi's Story (YS)
  • Fountain of Dreams (FoD)
  • Dreamland (DL)
  • Final Destination (FD)
Counterpick Stages:
  • all of the neutral stages +
  • Pokemon Stadium (PS)

Striking
The first stage played on in a set is decided in a 1-2-1 stage striking method. The player striking first can be decided through RPS, or by both players using GW's sideB aiming for the highest number.
The first player then strikes one of the 5 neutrals. The second player strikes two more, then the first player chooses the stage from the two remaining stages.


Counterpicking
The counterpicking process works as follows:
1. The winner bans one of the six counterpick stages.
2. The loser chooses the stage.
3. The winner chooses his character.
4. The loser chooses his character.

Note: Best of 3 sets usually allow the winner to ban one stage, but best of 5 sets usually do not allow banning.

Note: "Banning" a stage just means eliminating it as a counterpick option for just that 1 game; ex, P1 bans YS for game 2, so if there's a game 3, YS can still be selected unless the counterpicker already won there OR it gets banned again for game 3.

Note: There used to be a counterpicking process some tournaments used with a slightly different method for choosing characters: if the loser changes characters, the winner was allowed to choose the stage, unless he also changed character, which would give the loser back the stage counterpick. There also used to be a lot more stages that were legal (Pokefloats, etc).

Note: In doubles, FoD is banned b/c it lags with 4 players, but PS is considered neutral in doubles, while Kongo Jungle (64) is included in the counterpick stages for doubles.


Modified Dave's Stupid Rule (DSR)
The counterpicker cannot choose the stage that he last won on in that set.
Ex, P1 wins game 1 on FD, and P2 wins game 2 on DL. For game 3, P2 bans BF, and P1 can choose from only the following: YS, FoD, DL, PS (BF is banned and P1's last win was on FD, so they are not available).

Note: In grand finals, DSR should reset for the second set.

Note: The original DSR was that you can't counterpick a stage if you had ever won on it in that set, it's better modified for best of 5 sets.


Gentleman's Agreement
Tournaments will usually have set rulesets that YOU SHOULD NOT ATTEMPT TO CHANGE without permission (which the TO's should not approve).
However, players are given the option of mutually agreeing to use any stage, legal or not.
This is the only situation in which players are allowed to override the rules through mutual agreement (you can't mutually decide to make a best of 3 into a best of 5, etc).


Double Blind
There is often a situation in which a person's character selection is heavily based on their opponent's character selection. In this situation, the person who sits down to play and selects their character last has a pseudo-counterpick advantage for the first game.
To avoid this situation, players have the option of each privately informing a 3rd party of their character selections, and having that 3rd party select the characters for them.


Port Priority/Neutral Start
A neutral start is when both players spawn symmetrically on the stage, preventing one player from starting the game with positional advantage.
There are 2 methods of dealing with this:
  1. Neutral Start: Both players agree to move to the neutral starting positions before beginning the fight.
  2. Port Priority: Since starting positions are determined by port, players can RPS for their ports. The official ruleset listed on Smashboards says that the winner of the initial RPS can choose to either strike first or have port priority. So if you want port priority, you can force each player to have their controller in two ports which would result in a neutral start, but you can choose the one with port priority.
Note: Port Priority for stage positions can be quite different from other kinds of port priority. Priority for simultaneous events is always whoever is closest to P1. There are some really obscure situations where you might want P4 (ex, a P4 Marth can chain grab a spacies to a higher percent safely b/c there's an extra frame of freedom after the throw).

Doubles
In melee doubles, you can steal one of your partner's stocks if you run out by hitting start. There are a couple of courtesy rules about this. If your opponent has 2 stocks and they're at high % right now, just leave it unless they want you to be the last leg (or in friendlies by the ultimate scumbag and take it while they're getting star KO'd. On that note, another courtesy rule is that when you are star KO'd, don't hit start to share stock until after you're all the way dead - otherwise you'll pause and mess up the game. This can be solved by turning pause off.
In PM, share stock is done with A and B together, so no need to worry about pausing by accident.
Team attack should be on.




3. Stage Info

Blast Zones
Each stage exists in an invisible box whose boundaries are called blast zones.
Characters die when they cross the side or bottom blast zones. However, characters can only die from the top blastzone if they are hit into it, i.e. they are experiencing knockback when they cross the upper blastzone.

Star KO: When a character is killed off the top blast zone, they take a lot longer to die b/c they have to go through the blasting-off-again animation from pokemon. This can be significant when 2 characters on their last stocks kill each other with traded attacks, but one of them gets killed off the top while the other goes off the side. The star KO'd character will be considered the winner b/c their stock wasn't lost by the time the other guy died.

Screen KO: There is a rare chance that the star KO animation will be replaced with an animation that looks like the character just hit the TV screen. Since a screen KO is faster than a star KO, it can be a lucky break if you miss the DI on a rest.

Hoop Damage
A character will receive 1% per second it spends off-screen, as long as they are below 150%. I.e., you get hurt when you can only be seen through the lil magnifying glass.


Stage Size

See here for a post by Kadano about stage sizes, from which I derived the following table:

Stage | BZ width | BZ height | BZ depth | Side * Top Plat h | Stage width
BF|448|200|-108.8|27.2 * 54.4|136.8
YS|348.6|168|-91|23.45 * 42|112
FoD|397.5|202.5|-146.25|27.375 * 42.75|126.7
DL|510|250|-123|30.2425 * 51.4264|154.54
FD|492|188|-140|n/a * n/a|171.1212
PS|460|180|-111|25 * n/a|175.5
avg|avg: 442.7|avg: 198.1|avg: -120|avg: 26.7 * 47.6|avg: 146.1


For my personal visualization of stage blastzones, see here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7IVMVJKGmy0eVlzX19iUllxUUU/view?usp=sharing


Here is a real one for PM, which shouldn't be too different.









Battlefield (BF)
  • Many players consider BF to be the most balanced stage. It has medium sized platforms at a medium height, medium stage size, and medium blastzones.
  • Getting Battlefielded: A lot of ppl like to blame their SD's on the fact that BF sometimes legitimately screws you over. However, a lot of times ppl just failed to take into account the fact that it is very easy to pineapple (which is when you get stuck under the bottom of DL) yourself on BF due to the underside's empty space, plus you can't ride up the ledge.
    See here for Kadano's explanation of true battlefielding (use Ctrl-F and search for "Getting Battlefielded"). It happens when you get too far into the ledge such that your reverse ledgegrab box tries to grab the ledge, but fails.
  • Absolute Survival DI is slightly more horizontal than vertical.
  • Neutral Start:
    P3 (left platform) & P4 (right platform).
    P2 is top platform. P1 is center stage.

Fox

Falco
  • Can No-Impact Land on the top platform with a full hop as long as you didn't input an aerial on your first airborne frame (which would have added an extra frame of gravity to your overall jump, keeping you from reaching high enough).

Sheik
  • Can't recover onto the side platforms vs a good Marth without getting tipper Fsmash'd.

Marth
  • Can tipper Fsmash on the side platforms

Falcon

M2
  • Can sideB kill from the ledge.


Yoshi's Story (YS)
  • This is the smallest stage in terms of platform size/height, blast zones, and stage area. Characters die at much lower percents, so floaties may not like this stage. The low platforms give good accessibility to ground-based characters like Marth and ICs (Marth's ability to tipper Fsmash ppl on the side platforms, on top of the accessibility of the edges for his great gimping game, have given this stage the knickname "Marth's Story"). The walled edges allow characters with wall jumps/grapples to have a boosted recovery. The ground near the edges is slightly sloped. This makes ledgedashes a little easier. In addition, this allows different vertical spacing for characters on the ground attacking characters on the platforms.
  • Intangible ledgedashes are extremely good on this stage b/c most characters with good ledgedashes can cover close to half the stage intangibly.
    Chars with good ledgedashes due to their high GALInt (Grounded Actionable Ledge Intangibility): Fox, Falco, Sheik, Falcon, IC, Doc, Pika, Luigi, Mario, Y-Link, Pichu, & Kirby.
    Characters with decent ledgedashes: Puff, Link, DK, GW, & Bowser.
  • Randall: It's good to know exactly when Randall is gonna pop out. Also, make sure to taunt cancel whenever you can by having the platform slide back into the stage while you taunt.
  • Shy/Fly Guys: 1-6 Shy Guys will appear at random times and float around the stage. They can get in the way of battle by blocking projectiles and interrupting Falcon's sideB and other similar moves. They can also cause extra hitlag which may interfere with players' inputs. Due to the fact that extra hitlag extends hitbox duration, this can cause sweetspots to last longer than they should (ex, Knee a shy guy right before hitting someone, and if you sweetspotted it, when you hit your opp, it'll sweetspot even if it wouldn't have if you hadn't hit the shy guy). You can also hit shy guys with uncommonly used attacks to unstale your more commonly used attacks.
  • Absolute Survival DI is slightly more horizontal than vertical.
    Note: The left blast zone on this stage is slightly further from center stage than the right one.
  • Neutral Start:
    P1 (left platform) & P2 (right platform).
    P3 is top platform. P4 is center stage.

Fox
  • Low ceiling allows early Usmash/Uair kills.
  • In addition to his stupidly good ledgedash'd Usmash (Usmash coming out frame 7, with 15 total frames of GALInt), he is also able to obtain GALInt on the side platforms on this stage.
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Falco
  • Can shine kill off the top.
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Sheik
  • Can easily tech chase spacies due to the small stage size.
  • Can tipper Usmash on the side platforms.
  • Can't recover onto the side platforms vs a good Marth without getting tipper Fsmash'd.
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Marth
  • Can tipper Fsmash on the side platforms.
  • Can ledge cancel his UpB in a strange way like this.

Puff
  • Close blastzones detract from her good recovery.

Peach
  • Close blastzones detract from her good recovery.

Falcon
  • Can No-Impact Land on the top platform as long as you reverse your full hop by pressing backwards during jumpsquat.
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

IC
  • Low platforms help alleviate their poor air game.

Ganon
  • Close blastzones allow early kills.

Fountain of Dreams (FoD)
  • This is the second smallest stage and it has the second closest side blastzones, but it also has the second highest upper blastzone (though BF is only slightly lower). It's extreme depth and it's accessible base allows some characters (i.e. Samus) to recover from ridiculous depths due to wall jumping and wall grappling.
    The various platform heights can provide different advantages to different characters. Low platforms allow characters with a terrible air/platform game (ex, Roy/Samus) to reach higher without getting too far out of their comfort zone. High platforms allow characters with punishable recoveries to escape Marth's tippered Fsmash. When there are no platforms, Marth is able to edgeguard even more efficiently b/c his prey no longer has the option of recovering onto a platform.
  • Note: FoD is banned in doubles b/c it lags with 4 players.
  • Absolute Survival DI is slightly more vertical than horizontal.
  • Neutral start:
    P1 (left platform) & P2 (right platform).
    P4 is top platform. P3 is center stage.

Fox
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Falco
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Sheik
Typically considered a good Sheik stage due to the close walls allowing early Fair kills, while the high ceiling allows her to survive Fox shenanigans longer.
  • Can tipper Usmash on some heights of the side platforms.
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Marth
  • Can tipper Fsmash on some heights of the side platforms.

Puff
Typically a good puff stage due to her increased survivability in spite of her being a lightweight floaty.
  • High/wide blastzones complement her good recovery.

Peach
Typically a good puff stage due to her increased survivability in spite of her being a floaty.
  • High/wide blastzones complement her good recovery.

Falcon
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Samus
Typically a good samus stage due to her increased survivability in spite of her being a floaty, in addition to the depth complementing her recovery.
  • High/wide/deep blastzones allow virtually infinite recovery through DI, bomb jumping, tether grappling, and wall jumping (with the walljump boosting the UpB on top of all that).
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Young Link
  • Has a similar recovery boost to Samus with the wall grapple/jump/UpB boost.
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Roy
  • When the platforms are lower, it really helps him score the sweetspot on his aerials.

Dreamland (DL)
  • DL has the furthest blast zones and the widest base of any triple-platformed stage, giving a significant advantage to characters with good recoveries. It is also appealing to floatier/lighter characters since they will take much longer to KO. The large space allows characters with projectiles to camp, and characters with good maneuverability to easily evade slower opponents. The walled edges give a boosted recovery to characters who can wall jump/grapple.
  • Wispy: The big tree will randomly blow towards one side of the stage, pushing away the characters on that side. This can inhibit recoveries and combos.
  • Double Dedede: Sometimes there is a glitch that causes 2 dedede's to be in the background at the same time.
  • Absolute survival DI is slightly more horizontal than vertical.
  • Neutral start:
    P2 (left platform) & P4 (right platform).
    P3 is top platform. P1 is center stage.

Fox
  • Large base platform allows him to laser camp easily.
  • Large base platform complements his excellent dash dance.
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Falco
  • Large base platform allows him to laser camp easily.
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Sheik
  • Large base platform allows her to needle camp easily.
  • Can recover on the side platforms vs Marth without risking getting tipper Fsmash'd.
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Marth
  • Large base platform complements his excellent dash dance.
  • Can tipper Fsmash on the side platforms only if the opponent is doing an animation that puts their hurtbox below the platform (ex, bouncing from a missed tech).

Puff
Typically a good puff stage due to her increased survivability in spite of her being a lightweight floaty.
  • High/wide blastzones complement her good recovery.

Peach
Typically a good peach stage due to her increased survivability in spite of her being a floaty.
  • High/wide blastzones complement her good recovery.
  • Large base platform allows her to turnip camp effectively.

Falcon
Typically considered a good falcon stage due to the room for his movement to shine, as well as being one of the only places where he can use his downB recovery safely.
  • High/wide blastzones complement his recovery.
  • Large base platform complements his excellent dash dance.
  • Can wall jump for a boosted recovery.

Gdorf
  • High/wide blastzones complement his good recovery.


Final Destination (FD)
  • The lack of platforms gives an advantage to characters with projectiles over those that don't. It also gives advantage to characters with better mobility. For characters with good edgeguarding, it makes things easier for them by limiting their prey's options; in the same way, characters with limited recovery options suffer even more than usual on this stage.
    The lack of platforms also lends itself to a unique comboing style usually only available on this stage (i.e. pillaring and chain grabbing). It also makes juggling very linear.
  • Absolute survival DI is much more horizontal than vertical.
  • Neutral start:
    P3 (left of center) & P4 (right of center)
    OR
    P1 (far left) & P2 (far right)

Fox
  • Lack of platforms allows him to laser camp effectively.
  • Large base platform complements his excellent dash dance.

Falco
  • Lack of platforms allows him to 0-death with pillar combos.
  • Lack of platforms allows him to laser camp effectively.

Sheik
  • Lack of platforms allows her to chain grab half the cast uninhibited.
  • Lack of platforms allows her to needle camp effectively.

Marth
Typically considered a good marth stage coz reasons.
  • Lack of platforms allows him to easily cover all options when egdeguarding.
  • Lack of platforms allows him to chaingrab spacies uninhibited.
  • Lack of platforms makes him vulnerable to projectile camping.
  • Large base platform complements his excellent dash dance.

Puff
  • Lack of platforms makes her vulnerable to projectile camping.

Peach
  • Lack of platforms allows her to turnip camp effectively.

Falcon
  • Lack of platforms makes him vulnerable to projectile camping.
  • Large base platform complements his excellent dash dance.

Pokemon Stadium (PS)
  • The stage will randomly select one of four transformations at random time intervals. You are warned ahead of time which one is coming next by the giant TV screen.
  • Grass: There are 3 platforms; 1 medium sized platform in the exact middle, another one shaped just like it but a little above and offset to the left, and a small one in the middle of the right side of the stage. The ground on the right is raised, and there is a little depression for the river on the left, while the left side is flush with the lip on the edge.
  • Water: On the right side of the stage, there are 2 platforms; the rightmost one is higher than the left one, and they seem to be spaced evenly from the inside lip of the ground to the center of the stage. On the left side of the stage, there is a windmill with four, rotating, soft platforms; standing on one for 2 long will get you kicked off (allowing you to cancel any ground attack). The ground on the left is raised for the little dock and bit of island. You can edge cancel/etc on the inside lip on the right side of the stage.
  • Fire: There is a long platform on the right side of the stage, while on the left side there is a tree that can be wall jumped off of but can't be passed through; it also has a branch (which also can't be passed through) to it's left with a medium-sized platform on top. The ground on the right is flush with the lip of the edge, except for a little valley in the center. The ground on the left of the tree is flush with the rim of the stage.
  • Rock: There is a giant mountain on the left side of the stage (which you can wall jump off of) with a grabbable edge on its top left side; there are 2 platforms sticking out of its right side. To the right of the mountain are three independent platforms; the top one is tilted down to the left, while the bottom one tilts down to the right all the way to the ground (so you can walk onto it). The ground is uneven pretty much everywhere. You can edge cancel/etc on the inside lip of the right side of the stage.
  • Absolute survival DI is much more horizontal than vertical.
  • Neutral Start:
    P1 (left platform) & P2 (right platform)
    OR
    P4 (below left platform) & P3 (below right platform)

Fox
Typically considered a good Fox stage due to the low ceiling allowing early Usmash/Uair kills.
  • Large base platform complements his excellent dash dance.
  • Large base platform allows him to laser camp effectively.
  • Low ceiling allows early Usmash/Uair kills.
  • Can shine infinite against the walls of the fire/rock stages.
  • Can walljump off the wall in the fire/rock stages.

Falco
  • Large base platform allows him to laser camp effectively.
  • Can shine infinite against the walls of the fire/rock stages.
  • Can walljump off the wall in the fire/rock stages.

Sheik
  • Large base platform allows her to needle camp effectively.
  • Can jab infinite against the walls of the fire/rock stages, though the opponent can SDI out.
  • Can walljump off the wall in the fire/rock stages.
  • Can Shino Stall on the edge of the mountain in the rock transformation.
  • Can No-Impact Land on the neutral transformation platforms.
  • Usmash can tipper on the neutral transformation platforms.

Marth
  • Large base platform complements his excellent dash dance.
  • Fsmash can tipper on the neutral transformation platforms.

Puff
  • Close blastzones detract from her good recovery.
Peach
  • Large base platform allows her to turnip camp effectively.
  • Close blastzones detract from her good recovery.

Falcon
  • Large base platform complements his excellent dash dance.
  • Can walljump off the wall in the fire/rock stages.
  • Can SideB cancel against the sloped platform on the Rock tranformation (just for fun).




Conclusion
Note: I'm considering just merging this thing with my guide 'Micromanaging Melee' and just letting this be a section on stages. But the idea for this guide is so cute that I just want to have it be its own thing.

Note: I do not have the experience necessary to complete this guide to my own expectations. However, I am willing to include any corrections/supplements to what I say from better players.
Applicable Games
Melee
Author
dude it's raining
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Solid information.
stages are so important in this game omg. great guide
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