Smasheroni all'Italiana

[tunkatunka]

Italy is finally ready to join the community!

Our private league, called "I Fratelli Mazzata", is goingo to be online soon (http://ifratellimazzata.altervista.org/) and is looking for exhalted Smash Bros. Melee players for its greatest event...

...the Sadistic Series!

It's a tag team tournament with a classic "italian" formula: all the teams meet twice, and the final ranking elects the winner.

Further details in the next posts

Il Tunka

[Helios]

Italy has nice food, and cheap liquor...
I'd consider going again :D

[tunkatunka]

You are right man, we have nice food and wine and we deal pretty hard smashes too.

Stay tuned, and you'll know soon some more details on our activities: maybe we are gonna have our first international host...

By the way: where are you from?

Il Tunka

[tunkatunka]

Ah, I'm sorry... I only noticed now: Gothenburg!

I have an old friend down there, I wonder if she plays Smash Bros. too...

[Cos.]

Italians are cool, they live near to the Alps ;) . (Most countries bordering Switzerland are cool)

I see you have a nice SSBM site in prepartion. Have you had conntact with these people:
http://www.ssbm.it . They even have a forum in Italian :lick: (My French lets me barely browse the forum, but it's fine( and yes, I know French isn't equal to Italian :p )) ... maybe it's also old news for you.


It would be nice if the Swiss and Italians could play SSBM together some time *imaginess big central Europa tournament in Switzerland*... it would be the best :chuckle:

[tunkatunka]

Hi Cos., and thanks for the advices!

I have a lot of friends in Switzerland, and I'd be glad to build a big central european league, but at the present time it's just good enough to find the time to build up the website, and organize a brand new torunament with my sixteen smash-addicted friends!

I speak french as well (not as good as English, but quite) and by the way, as soon as the site is going online in its complete version, I'm gonna start building up the english version too.

Stay tuned for news about the Sadistic Series!

Il Tunka

[Helios]

Hmm, could you tell me a bit more in specific how this league works?

[tunkatunka]

Ok. It's a long deal, so I'll try to be synthetic and if something isn't clear you just ask me.

We usually organize tournaments devided into three parts: Free For All, Single, and finally Double.
Each part has the same total prize (devided between all the players), although the Free For All and Single parts give more points to the first, second and third in the ranking, and less points to the bottom positions.

The Free For All is all made of five-player elimination groups: five matches are played, and in each of these matches one of the players is out (each match has medium weapons, random stage and 4 minutes time, NO LIVES). In every single match we give 4 points to the first, 2 to the second, 1 to the third and 0 to the fourth. When all five matches are done, the first two of each group qualify to the next round and the last two enter the "losers group".
We go on until 4 players qualify for the final group (out of two semifinal groups): the winner of the last group is the Champion of the Free For All.
The tournament is structured so that we have final groups to determine exactly all the places in the ranking (example: in a 16-player tournament the final groups are gonna be four - 1st to 4th, 5th to 8th, 9th to 12th, and 13th to 16th).

The Single is way more simple: the four finalists of the F.F.A. are the leader seeds of the board, which is a direct-elimination board. The challenges are played on ONE SINGLE one-on-one match, Stock Mode and just three lives (all weapons allowed, random stage).
The winners of the first round go to the right part of the table (the winning part) and challenge for the final victory, while the others go to the left part (the losing part). Here too we play all finals to determine the exact ranking from the first to the last (see the F.F.A. part).

At this point the Double starts: based on the total ranking so far, the 1st and the last of the ranking team together, then the second and the second last and so on. Then these teams take on each other in a big tournament, based on matches of 4 minutes (NO LIVES) equal to the ones of the F.F.A., to determine the Double champions.

The tournament usually gives a total of 66 points for each of its three parts, devided among all the players (the last one/ones always take one point, then the points raise until the first).
We also give one bonus point to the best killer, one to the best defender and one to the guy who has the best average between kills and ko's.

All the total points are eventually added to a big general ranking of all tournaments. After one year of tournaments, the total ranking has determined the teams for the sensational Sadistic Series (a very special Double tournament)!

I'll explain you tomorrow what the SS's are about.

Any questions?

Il Tunka

P.S.: I know it seems complicated, but it's not. How about your tournaments? What formulas are you using?

P.P.S.: If it's reeeeeeeally complicated to understand I'll translate you one of our point tables and send you some material.

[Helios]

I understand, but I don't like what I see =/

In the majority of tournaments today, you never see FFA battles. NEVER time mode. NO ITEMS, EVER :P

Oh, and you're usually allowed to choose whoever you wanna team with, aswell. =/

Uhh, guess this isn't my kind of tourney, sorry :(

[tunkatunka]

yeah, I was pretty sure that in a classic tournament form any kind of casual factor would have been eliminated. I mean, it makes sense: that way the best player usually wins, and you are pretty sure to end in a position that really shows your level.

But our tournaments have a different philosophy: everything can happen! Nobody is sure to win, and the strongest players - such as me or my brother - tend to be attacked intentionally by all their opponents, and end up having a reeeeeally hard time.

I know it's a pretty unusual form, but in our tournaments we are all friends and we just think about having fun the craziest way possible.

In the last tournament we made, I was first after F.F.A. (my favourite) and Single, and I played the double together with a friend of mine that had played his very first Smash game just an hour earlier: THAT WAS MAD, man! One of the hardest challenges of my life.

Please, try this mad formula by meddling experienced players, so so players and absolute beginners: you won't regret it, believe me!

Il Tunka

P.S.: Oh, by the way let me ask you again: what about YOUR formulas? I'm looking for new ideas

[Helios]

Check any reasonably large tournament on this boards, and you'll get an idea.
It's all 4 stock, 8 minute time limit, no items, though.

[tunkatunka]

OK.

Any variations? No? Never?

Thanx

[tunkatunka]

The rules are plain and simple: it's a Double tournament. The ranking is like a soccer championship one, without playoffs and with two matches between one team and each opponent.

The matches are played in a formula pretty similar to the one of the Davis Cup (Tennis fans you know what I'm talking about).

The two teams play seven manches: 4 one-on-ones and 3 doubles. Here is an example:

Team A+B vs Team C+D.

Manche 1: A vs C
Manche 2: Double
Manche 3: B vs D
Manche 4: Double
Manche 5: A vs D
Manche 6: B vs C
Manche 7: Final Double.

All Doubles are played in 4 minutes Time match, with all levels and objects (this is the way we play the matches, but others could play it differently).
All Singles are played with no Time, only Three Lives and all levels and objects.

Each team gets as many points as many manches it wins (ex., if team A wins 4-3 against team B, team A gets 4 points and team B gets 3), and these points are directly added to the total ranking of the team (there is no individual point assignment).

The team that leads the ranking is the champion. Plus, special prizes are given to the best attacker (the one who killed the highest number of opponents), defender (the one who died less) and the one with the best average between attack and defence.

The strenght of this formula is that you don't need to play it all in the same moment, but you can organize the matches in a few weeks to meet the exigences of the busiest players (particularly suitable to a newspaper journalist - radio journalist - marketing executive like me... :psycho: )

What do you think about it?

Il Tunka

[TelpeFion]

I really like the general idea. I was thinking of a similar thing once myself, but couldn't get it to work. However, time matches in teams, and all levels and items = NO NO NO. But yeah, other than that, I really like it.

[tunkatunka]

Let me ask again: why not? why not use all levels and objects? Why not use the Time mode?

I think a complete player should be able to deal with any kind of match, casualty and circumstance...

And what about the characters? DK is surely strong, but how much does he lose if he can't throw objects the way he only does?

Besides, is there anything funnier and more exciting than a good old messy crushy crazy senseless Free For All?

Il Tunka

[Sparkie009]

Randomness eliminates skill. And skill is what this game is about nowadays.

I myself play frequently with items and such, but when you're looking for a fight in which you're to determine the most skillful player, randomness may change the tide of the battle in such a way skill is no longer part of it.

As for why not playing time mode... Let's just say people would tend to choose the character with which they would be able to score the most easy kills. Stalling tactics would also be more easily considered giving in to.

[tunkatunka]

Randomness eliminates skill. And skill is what this game is about nowadays.

I myself play frequently with items and such, but when you're looking for a fight in which you're to determine the most skillful player, randomness may change the tide of the battle in such a way skill is no longer part of it.

As for why not playing time mode... Let's just say people would tend to choose the character with which they would be able to score the most easy kills. Stalling tactics would also be more easily considered giving in to.




Actually, randomness EXHALTS skills: the impredictable is the true frontier for those who know each and every mechanism (it's the negation of mechanism itself, philosophically). And what about the way you chase and use objects? That is technique too, and it's a technique I master (it's not a case I use DK).

The thing about the Time Mode is true, I admit it, but the contrary is true as well: Stock mode favours quick and high-jumping characters, while Time mode favours the bigger ones. The trick is to find a concrete balance between the two things.

Anyway I appreciate the polite way you discuss, so I want to ask you one more thing: why not use ALL THE STAGES? That is not about randomness, right? A good player and character should play comfortably (more or less) in any level...

Il Tunka

[Sparkie009]

Actually, randomness EXHALTS skills: the impredictable is the true frontier for those who know each and every mechanism (it's the negation of mechanism itself, philosophically). And what about the way you chase and use objects? That is technique too, and it's a technique I master (it's not a case I use DK).

The impredictable thing about items is what make them unfair. You could just wait until an item that favors your character heavily spawns next to you, and few moments later wreak complete havoc with it. Or let's say a Bob-Omb spawns right on top of your character, which is just attempting a match deciding edgeguard. Not only will you be taken out of the ablitiy to ensure your victory, but your opponent will also most likely claim his. Not completely fair, in my opinion. And the opinion of many others.

The thing about the Time Mode is true, I admit it, but the contrary is true as well: Stock mode favours quick and high-jumping characters, while Time mode favours the bigger ones. The trick is to find a concrete balance between the two things.

I was actually talking about shinespikes, tippers, rests, knees etc. These moves are in most cases easy to pull of, and are also almost ensured to net you a kill.

Stock mode does not favor fast characters. Simply because no character has such speed the opponent is unable to counter. And if a character has such capabilities, then human hands are not fast enough to prove so.

Anyway I appreciate the polite way you discuss, so I want to ask you one more thing: why not use ALL THE STAGES? That is not about randomness, right? A good player and character should play comfortably (more or less) in any level...

Neutral stages are called so because they are neutral. They do not favor particular characters in such a way fighting them is useless. Many stages do favor certain characters to a point on which they are, if played correctly, undefeatable.

[tunkatunka]

You make pretty good points about everything, although I'm convincing myself more and more that I'll never want to go to an official tournament in my life :chuckle:

The only thing I'm not convinced of is about being free to wait for an object in the FFA until it falls to your feet: our experience is different, the object frequence is either medium or low, and usually when a big object falls EVERYBODY rushes like a bull tu get it. Besides, the games are too quick and you never get to be left alone for more than three seconds (except for the Hyrule Castle, the level I like the less together with the f***ing Flat Zone).

Another thing I'm not convinced about is the story of the neutral levels: what levels are considered "neutral"?

Il Tunka

[Sparkie009]

You make pretty good points about everything, although I'm convincing myself more and more that I'll never want to go to an official tournament in my life

These rules are by no means official. They are just the most common, because everyone agrees with them. If you want to host a tournament with other rules, feel free to do so. Just keep in mind people might not be interested in things they don't think of as serious or fair.

MLG, Gauntlet Series and KotC Series are the only official tournaments I am aware of. I don't know whether or not any of those tournaments owns these rules, but if they do, I guess you can call them official MLG, Gauntlet or KotC rules.

The only thing I'm not convinced of is about being free to wait for an object in the FFA until it falls to your feet: our experience is different, the object frequence is either medium or low, and usually when a big object falls EVERYBODY rushes like a bull tu get it. Besides, the games are too quick and you never get to be left alone for more than three seconds (except for the Hyrule Castle, the level I like the less together with the f***ing Flat Zone).

You can wait for an item. Just stand in a place that is safe. Items will occasionally spawn near you, and when that happens, all others will try to come and get it. You now have the opportunity to take full advantage of that, since you cannot be harmed, while you can make them suffer in ways that will leave them begging for death.

Another thing I'm not convinced about is the story of the neutral levels: what levels are considered "neutral"?

Neutral stages:

Final Destination
Pokémon Stadium
Dreamland N64
Fountain of Dreams
Yoshi's Story

You may want to toss in Battlefield there as well, but the edges might screw you.

These stages are called neutral because they are the least random stages. There is not much stuff going on there giving an advantage to a certain character and there are also no other things that disrupt the flow of the battle in such a way players are hindered.

[Dax]

uh, who are you? i'm italian and we have already a "semi-official community"
Vieni su www.ssbm.it, sul forum e facciamo due chiacchere ^^

[tunkatunka]

Hi guy! Stiamo per andare online pure noi, a ifratellimazzata.altervista.org. C'è già l'intro, dai un'occhiata. Il vostro sito lo conosco, è già nei preferiti e ogni tanto ci passo.

Il Tunka

[tunkatunka]

I didn't mind to insult or diminish the most accepted formulas for tournaments across the world, I understand those are the more balanced and democratic rules possible.

I just feel uncomfortable thinking about SSBM as a game made of certain factors and tactics, I don't feel the true philosophy of the game if I play it that way.

One more thing: I'd be curious to play against some big tournament players to rate my level - which I've always thought was high, before entering this site for the first time :psycho:
I'd be curious because, when I've seen the videos of some world class games, anda when I showed them to my friends, none of us was really IMPRESSED by the level of the game.
Now the question is: how can I try to understand how good I am without having a one-on-one match against a tournament freak?

Il Tunka

P.S.: Please don't tell me I have to try the home run contest or stuff: I HATE 1P modes

[Sparkie009]

I just feel uncomfortable thinking about SSBM as a game made of certain factors and tactics, I don't feel the true philosophy of the game if I play it that way.

I'm not telling you to play the game in any way. I'm just saying that if you want to compete in a tournament, expect to face these rules.

One more thing: I'd be curious to play against some big tournament players to rate my level - which I've always thought was high, before entering this site for the first time
I'd be curious because, when I've seen the videos of some world class games, anda when I showed them to my friends, none of us was really IMPRESSED by the level of the game.
Now the question is: how can I try to understand how good I am without having a one-on-one match against a tournament freak?

You weren't impressed by videos. That makes perfect sense. Videos show mostly tech skill, and not mindgames. Yet mindgames are what separates the elite players from the good players.

As long as you don't brag about non-existant skill, you will be accepted by the community, and people will help you improve your game. I got my butt handed to me at my first tourny. I learned from it. Now I'm many times better than I was back then.

Point is, it doesn't matter whether or not your skills are less than others, you play the game for fun. And as long as the game is fun to you, you'll get better.

And I'm afraid there is no way of knowing where you rank on the skill-scale unless you play with people already on that scale.

P.S.: Please don't tell me I have to try the home run contest or stuff: I HATE 1P modes

1P modes are mostly about doing certain things as fast as possible. Great for developing tech skill, but your mindgames will suffer from it, because you are now trained to complete something the fastest way possible, and those styles of fighting are easily countered.

[tunkatunka]

Thank you for the advices, I'll keep them in mind.

If you happen to step by Italy, let me know: our tournaments are always open!

Take a look at http://ifratellimazzata.altervista.org/ from time to time: the italian and english versions of our site are about to get online, with the results of the Sadistic Series constantly updated

Stay tuned!

Il Tunka

P.S.: I was thinking about little interviews to international players, stuff to put on the site: would you like to answer a few questions?