Samus VS Doc

[Zozefup]

I play samus and I'm having alot of problems against my friends Doc. Can you give me some tips on how to beat this low tier crap character please?

[magnebula]

Number 1: Doc is not a crap character. He can easily own Samus, and from your situation, he is doing so.

Number 2: Doc is only ranked 8, thats not low.

Number 3: Why ask a Doc player? Ask a very good, experienced Samus Smasher.

[Zozefup]

I tryed to ask experienced Samus smashers, but they all said "Why, no one uses Doc, hes a low tier crap character"

[magnebula]

Well then you asked the wrong people... Doc is not a crap character at all, and I feel he should be alot higher than he is on the tier list.

[Gea]

Use your legs. And be more God**** polite next time.

[Rob_Gambino]

Cmon guys, cut this guy some slack. It's not his fault Doc is a crappy character. Anywayz, you should try to play more of a ground game, you do not want to challenge doc in the air, you will lose. Time your edgehogs and occasionally use u-tilt for edgeguard. Stay on the ground, d-smash, f-tilt, f-smash, basically just expose Doc's crappiness.

[LAX]

If by "tried to ask" you mean you posted a thread and one person responded so far...

give it time, like a day. Also, the only post other than yours in that thread says nothing about doc being easy, crap, or really anything. It was also good adivce.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=66296

[maelstrom218]

Hmm. . .This really shouldn't be a difficult matchup for Samus.

You can easily deal w/Pills by any manner of out-of-shield wavedashing, bombs + DI, jabbing, f-tilting them away. You outrange Doc both on the ground and in the air w/your f-tilt, sex kick, b-air, and u-air. Doc's KO power is somewhat nullified in this matchup given that Samus never dies.

I'm not sure what to say here. . .exactly what part of Doc's gameplay is giving you so much trouble?

The thing is, you can't rely on your standard missile-cancelled approaches b/c of Doc's Cape. Cautious use of missile cancelling is required; try to be unpredictable w/your missiles (i.e. alternating between smash and homing) and if possible, try to bait Doc into using the Cape at inopportune moments so you can take advantage of its lag (i.e. deliberately firing a smash missile too high above him, or missile cancelling so a missile doesn't come out).

Samus' crouch-cancel-counter game is still very much applicable against Doc to a certain extent. Just don't CC f-airs, and try not to CC during Pill-Rushed approaches. Regardless, CC'd d-smashes still work marvelously well against the rest of Doc's aerials (excepting the latter part of his sex kick).

Samus can combo Doc rather easily. F-air usage is key here; if you can manage to land it, Doc will be knocked up in prime position for a sex kick, or u-air -> charge shot, that kind of thing. Just don't spam shffl'd f-airs; be careful when you use it given that the f-air has a really slow hit rate (long gaps in between the attacks).

Spacing w/Samus is obviously key given her range advantage. F-tilt, sex kick, b-air, u-air all outrange Doc severely, so use that to your advantage, as well as proper wavedashing.

On your part, be sure to avoid having Doc under you. Samus is vulnerable below; so if Doc happens to launch you in the air, you're going to have a considerable amount of damage tacked on afterwards. . .sex kicking out of Doc's shffl'd u-air/sex kick combos might help as well as limited use of bomb DI to discourage combo'ing/follow up.

Edgeguarding Doc should be easy; missiles, charge shots, d-airs, off-the-stage sex kicks/b-airs, and u-tilts work fine.

By the way. . .condemning Doc as a "low-tier crap character" when asking Doc players advice on how to beat Doc is not only impolite, but fundamentally stupid.

[Gea]

Like I said, use her legs. Utilt for edgeguarding against Doc by far. Fire off a missle and use sex to approach if he capes. Etc. Ftilt knocks the junk out of Doc.

[TranquilStarfall]

Nice sig maelstrom218

[mood4food77]

let's see

avoid doc in the air, doc will beat you in there, beware of the cape, and watch out for the wavedash, it's greater than yours, and his KO power is much higher than yours too (his competes with ganon's)

[ihavespaceballs]

maelstrom, is the lettering for Henshin in your sig animated, or am I just really tired?

[maelstrom218]

Uh, I think that you must be tired.

The effects on "Henshin a go-go, Baby" are just Filter -> Blur -> Motion blur w/a 20 pixel distance in Photoshop. No animation involved whatsoever. If you want to make the letters jump around all over the place though, try not sleeping for 36 hours while high on any variety of mildly hallucinogenic drugs. Works for me. >_>

Thanks for the compliment, Silven. It could be better though; I'm thinking of getting rid of this one and making another. This one's starting to look a bit ugly.

[Toecutter]

Doc is in no way crap. Quite the opposite, actually.

[Kalypso]

With 2 mediocre or worse people playing Doc will rape Samus because of the cape. When someone doesn't know how to be unpredictable and their oponent can counter quite a few of their moves the matchup is imbalanced. Dont let him cape.

Also, Spamus shouldn't be insulting other characters :/

[dr.neo]

I use doc and my brother uses samus. I found the hardest things to get by are her over B kicks. Thats knocks me low to the ground and off the stage making it impossible for me to come back. Use the edge guard a lot dont forget that doc has about four things to use to come back(cape, jump, tornado, and up B) so dont be scared when he gets close to the edge hold your ground for the right time. Docs cape has a lag so use that charge up your big blast then after you shoot a homing missile fire it but be ready to block just incase it is caped back

[trademark0013]

first, doc is no where near a low-tier character. according to some, doc > marth, but thats another story.

i play as both characters, so i can help you out. as for your samus vs doc problem, i suggest you learn how to missle-cancel and abuse it. since most doc users cape b4 shielding/rolling, u can missle cancel and when he capes, SH > sex kick > l- cancel, then do whatever u see needed depending on percent and placement. also, u can get a ball charged up, then forward b > missle cancel > forward b > b. he should cape the first missle, which will negate the 2nd missle and cause the ball to send him flying.

dont forget to grab since samus has a longer one than doc, but dont be stupid and spam. cuz if u miss, ur gonna get rap3d.

also, since doc is a close-range character, try and bomb-spam when he comes in. doc can put pressure on you with pill-spamming. just keep ur distance and wait. its better than geting slowed down by a pill.

btw, i have doc vs samus strats as well, if anybody wants them.

[supermariopro101]

Doc vs Samus strategy involves getting samus in the air b/c her dair is far from unnoticeable. Doc can uair her like crazy once she's in the air. The problem is getting her in the air. Samus is a CC freak that can sustain damage well over 200 if played right. Use SHABAWDs to get in her range. Then go for a uthrow or dthrow depending on the damage percentage. The ftilt can be used for long distance poking since doc has an inside game. Dsmash is the only smash that should be used and maybe the usmash to reset the distance when you can't juggle any more. All samus players love the dsmash and doc should avoid at all cost. disupting the bombs w/ pills should be your first option if you knock her off the stage thoguh you should go for an upwards KO if possible because of her great recovery.

[Runt]

Doc iz nice, but what u should do is crouch cuz samus' CC is rediculous. Just watch out for docs d-air cuz it cancels your crouch cancel. Or at least i know mario's does. I just started playing doc a few days ago so im not really experienced yet, but i have played a good samus who beat me cuz of the CCing.

[quak]

why are people ragging on doc in the doc threads? If you have problems with doc, then obviously hes not crap, if you're going to ask advice on how to beat a doc either ask a samus player or ask us nicely. You hafta expect people getting ticked if you call doc a crap charactor when we all play him

[phanna]

I play samus and I'm having alot of problems against my friends Doc. Can you give me some tips on how to beat this low tier crap character please?
Stop sucking. My roommates Doc is an amazing counter to my Samus, and we never know who will win. Don't come in a forum, ragging on the character, and ask how to own it. Learn to reflect pills, play mind games with your blast, and recover high until you get in pill range, then drop low and grapple. Watch out for him caping your up-B or grapple. Don't ALWAYS missile-cancel your falls, he'll just always cape them back if you do. Learn to properly use Samus' fair and uair, Doc is too light to sex kick out of grabs. For more information, post in the Samus forum, since you're asking about her techniques, not Doc's.

[FaceD]

i agree with the guy above me me and my friend play doc vs samus and rite now were 2-2. If he capes ur blasts and he hits u with them DONT DO IT do it when his in the air or something or an unsual time. I can never cape samus for edgeguarding. I tuaght doc was crap jus like u tuaght but then i was joking around one day and i picked him and i connected with him prty well.

[Rob_Gambino]

What is reflecting a pill going to do? It is very hard to do, the pill will not go back to reach doc, you're like a sitting duck if you try that. Recover high; are you kidding me? The Samus is going to eat b-airs all day. The cape saves Samus during a Samus up-B. Sure you're going to eat a smash afterwards, but the cape actually sends Samus higher, and I think she gets an air dodge afterwards. Always missile cancel your missiles, so you can predict the cape and mindgame a short hop d-air or n-air. The point is not to eat a missile, grab, aerial, or pill afterwards.

[phanna]

What is reflecting a pill going to do?
Reflect it. Any good Doc who is shooting pills is also coming in for an attack, and so reflecting them will throw him off. If you're dealing with a crappier doc, then it's just a fun way to not have to worry about the pills while taunting your incompetent foe.

It is very hard to do, the pill will not go back to reach doc, you're like a sitting duck if you try that.
I can't help it if it's hard for you. As I mentioned above, Doc will have to deal with the reflected pills unless he's just spamming them from a distance. Also, power shielding doesn't make you a "sitting duck" - it might make YOU a sitting duck if you can't pull off a move, but you, and every player, should learn contingency plans, or in your case, not doing a move if you simply can't do it.

Recover high; are you kidding me? The Samus is going to eat b-airs all day.
I don't think you understood what I meant there. I mean after you get knocked off the stage, stay "high" (above the range of doc to pill you), and then cross that range quickly if you must. I don't mean Samus should come in a few jumps away from Doc, only a retard would do that, and I'm sorry if that's what you thought.

The cape saves Samus during a Samus up-B.
Sorry, my roommate's Doc is competent. I don't understand what you mean here, but I die to his cape whenever I'm not paying proper attention. I don't think you know how to play Doc if you don't know how he can easily cape people before they grab a ledge, sending them to their deaths.

Sure you're going to eat a smash afterwards, but the cape actually sends Samus higher, and I think she gets an air dodge afterwards.
Only if Doc capes Samus as she jumps or starts the up-b. I don't see why any Doc would jump off a level, fall down to Samus and then cape her before she up-B's to give her an extra boost. I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but everything you've posted so far makes you seem incompetent.

Always missile cancel your missiles, so you can predict the cape and mindgame a short hop d-air or n-air. The point is not to eat a missile, grab, aerial, or pill afterwards.
First of all, you just used the words "always" with "mindgame" in the same sentence. If you ALWAYS do something, YOU'RE the one that will get mindgamed. That said, it's wonderful if you can predict that Doc will cape your missile back at you, but sadly, you can't just say "well gee I'll just short hop d-air or n-air him and pwn his noob *** with my superior mindgame strategy", because he could easily space himself that such attempts would be pathetically ineffective. Again, either you don't know how Doc is played, or the Doc(s) you play against don't, because everything you've said here is retarded :ohwell:

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Recap:

1) Power shielding is good, despite your unwillingness or inability to do it.

2) Samus can easily recover outside the range of doc. She should stay high when she's far away from the level, then quickly cross the airspace where Doc can pill/b-air/n-air her, onto the level if possible, or lower, by sweetspotting the ledge via grapple/Up-B (or both).

3) The cape of any competent mario does NOT save samus. I can't fathom why you would think that :dizzy:

4) I don't think your advice for Samus to get side-smashed by Doc when recovering is good.

5) You don't know what mindgames are if you recommend always doing the same move. Sorry :urg:

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Incidentally, where do you live? Because I would be more than happy to play a Doc/Samus fight with you or anyone you know who could perform better. Also, I'm somewhat sorry about the condescending air I wrote this post with, but I'm just reacting to your own arrogant disregard for what I wrote previously. I don't have any problem with you, just don't talk like you know what you're saying if you really don't.

[Cyphus]

strange, i thought i posted in here a long time ago...
Anywho..if theres a matchup i know, its Doc Vs. Samus. My main oponent mains Samus..and I main...well, duh. anywho.

Anyway...its wierd giving advice to beat doc, but, haha..oh well.
missle spam if you have the room. pills and cape from a distance are just as easily avoided. F.tilt is your friend for mid-range pills. Reverse WD-F.smash his shuffled offenses, and then reverse WD grab, if he starts shielding after his L-cancel. Camping by a ledge works well, if the doc is offensive. if you at low enough damage let yourself get hit by a weak shuffle/dash attack/etc and CC-D.smash him off the level. There's pretty good odds he WON'T have DIed it correclty, and a nasty angle might come form his offensive lead. SmashMissles are easily predictable and caped. Better to just use a homing missle or two if he tries to get higher or lower from the normally-horizontal missle-zone, and either fall off the level using a Sex kick if he tries to recover from a missle-safer zone or jump sex. Her sex is really doc's bane when recovery. If you're caught w/ not enough time to do it, use her UpTilt to edgegaurd, or just wait for a moment to WD-Fsmash him :<

combo-wise, d.tilt works into UpAir, and from there..depending how he DI's u can shoot a missle to keep him on the defense. grapple beam works if he shields the missle.
bleh..nvmd..just missle spam, and just sex spam and WD f.smash spam to play keep away. XD

[Rob_Gambino]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=66954&page=1

I kind of misunderstood you on the recovery thing; it may or may not work. I know how crazy Samus's recovery is. If you don't missile cancel, I just see the Samus being very vulnerable. The Samus is going to do 1 of 3 things if the missile doesn't hit him. 1. He is going to jump, and Doc can have his way there. 2. He is going to shield, which sets up for an easy grab. 3. He is going to side-step, and there's not that much someone can do after a sidestep. The Samus can still be ok, but if he missile cancelled, he wouldn't be so much on the defensive, he could do whatever he wanted then.

I'm from Southern Illinois, and I am the doc giving zozefup trouble. If you come to fc6, mayb you could show me how effective this powershielding pills technique is.