Roy vs. Cheap Dr.Mario(And link)

[Gregory2590]

I need simple strats on how to defeat a cheap Dr. Mario and Link.Before that let me tell you how my cousin fight with them.I do beat him all the time but he keeps on using cheap and odd sratigies to win.What I am asking is how to beat them easily without struggle. Here is how he fights with them:

Dr.Mario
When I reach a high damage(Over 100) he starts Csticking the Dsmash to kill me.
EVERYTIME he comes down from the air he either does his Dair or Fair.
When i'm in the air he uses his Up+B to make an attempt on hitting me.
When im recovering he also csticks his Dsmash to kill me(it does it 60% of the time)
He uses his B attack to try to kill me when im recovering(He really helps me whe nusing that)

Link
90% of the time he'll spam his boomerang
EVERYTIME when he falls down he uses Dair to kill me
EVERYTIME i'm in the air he either uses his Uair or his Up+B(very annoying)
EVERYTIME when I recover and reach the edge, he either uses his Dsmash Up+B or his Neutral B
EVERYTIME he gets close to me he uses his Ftilt.

Well I just hope that there are easy strageties for this(if you understood my post).BTW to make things a little easier i'll tell you my pros and cons with roy for better results.

Pros:
Good at shorthopping
Can L cancel fairly well
Can set up highdamaging shorthopping and l cancleing combos

Cons:
VERY HORRIBLE at wavedashing
Teching needs a little work

Well after all you read I hope for some answers.

[Koops]

try using the side dodge then Cstick up him in the air then start jumping up then hitting him then whale on him without giving him any chance to retaliate.

[blaksheap82]

I play against the cheapest Doc in the world (he practically makes the game not fun anymore with how much he spams), and I'll take bets on that if anyone would like to argue. For the dair and the fair, both are easily shield grabbed (except my friend constantly shield stabs me with the accursed fair, so try to light shield as much as possible), the dair due to it's lag if he doesn't L-cancel his aerials. The fair also has very short range, and Roy's sword will beat it every time, especially if you're on the ground. With Marth I know his dtilt is pretty fast (I don't play Roy, but my brother does.), so trying to use that against the dsmash might help you cc also, assuming Roy's ccing isn't horrible. Oh, and Doc's upb has insane priority, so just do your best to avoid it, or air dodge if you absolutely have to.

Link is my main, so I can definitely tell you here to take advantage of the laggy moves your cousin is using. Aerial upb's that miss are very dangerous, so punish him if those miss. The dair, even when L-canceled, is dead meat for a shieldgrab. The boomerang can easily just be batted away. The rest of your troubles seem to be coming from you needing to work on your spacing.

[Gregory2590]

My cousin doen't L cancel or use any tatic except edgegarding and stuff.HE doesn't even know what are the terms.But they were helpful thanks.

[Yloh]

If your cousin does nonthing but Dair with link, then you could also use Roy's counter move. The timing needs to be exact, but it is a fun way to punish a Dair spammer. As said above, you can just shield grab him.

Try to stay close to Doc, so he can't use his pills. Don't stay too close, or he will get his attacks in. Like Marth, Roy can use his sword for priority and range. Roy is just not as good at doing this as Marth is.

When recovering, try to sweetspot the edge. Sweetspotting the edge is a good habbit to get into, but it can cause a lot of trouble. You need to know your opponent and your character because sweetspotting may not always be the best solution. Roy should not have too much trouble sweetspotting because his sword normally hits people guarding the edge.

[Gregory2590]

I have one more question:What does DI mean?

[Yloh]

Directional influence allows the player to alter the direction they fly, when they get hit or thrown. This is done by holding the controller stick in the desired direction, before they get hit or thrown.

There is a sticky in the melee discussion room called Wavedashing, L-cancelling, All The Terms! Read First! Go there to find an even better answer than what I have.

[uremog]

1. at 100% most characters should be dying soon.
2. there is no cheap.

doc's dsmash is good, so he should be using it. good job to him for identifying a good attack. you need to space yourself better to discourage him from using it. i think roy's dtilt will hit him up so he can't CC it. that makes a free air hit or 2. doc's dair isn't that good, it's easily out-spaced by roy. and his fair has a lot of wind-up time, so if he's not shffling it, you'll have some good time to get out of the way or hit it out. doc's ftilt can be CC'd, but it has suprising range. just be glad he's not a good thrower or can bair combo, or can shield-dash.

link:
"90% of the time he'll spam his boomerang"
well, you could just try blocking or jumping or swatting it.

"EVERYTIME when he falls down he uses Dair to kill me"
it's not too hard to get out of the way. DD to grab

"EVERYTIME i'm in the air he either uses his Uair or his Up+B(very annoying)"
his best idea yet. really. you'll want to stay away from the uair, or counter it since he does it EVERY TIME. if you get thrown away from the upB, ff to the stage if you can beat him down or go for the ledge (more on that later).

"EVERYTIME when I recover and reach the edge, he either uses his Dsmash Up+B or his Neutral B"
lol, you're hanging too long. there's a few things you need to realise here. one is that you get invincible frames when you grab the edge. two is that all basic wake-up options have invincibility. three is that you can ledge-hop. get to learn link's range on his attack options. from there, you can either make good use of that edge invincibility and ledgehop (attacking if he's in range) quickly. or wait till he attacks and use a standard wake up. or even fake out by dropping and grabbing the edge again to reset your options.

"EVERYTIME he gets close to me he uses his Ftilt."
not the best move. you can be faster, maybe most notably with DED (not sure what to use on link). or grab. or suck it up and CCC.


as for teching, just hit L every time you think you should tech and you'll get faster at it. it's like throw teching in other games.

[Nexis]

or if you KNOW its comming.. then you can counter..

but unless you are realllllly sure, then keep on moving around.

[KyUuKyUu]

All I can say is, if you can make a list of like 10 things your opponents ALWAYS DO, then wtf, why don't you see them coming and prevent them? If he ALWAYS dairs or fairs from the air, then shieldgrab him, for example.

edit: I'm pretty sure Doc's dsmash can't hit sweetspotters, so do that.

EVERYTIME when I recover and reach the edge, he either uses his Dsmash Up+B or his Neutral B
EVERYTIME he gets close to me he uses his Ftilt.


1) If he dsmashes you with Link to edgeguard he's retarded as it sends you up
1a) Links are SUPPOSED to upb for edgeguard
1b) Arrows are mostly useless, so I don't know how the hell he's edgeguarding you with those

2)His ftilt is laggy as hell and should never really hit unless punishing bad lag or edgeguarding
2a)It's not even that strong...
2b)Shieldgrab it if you know he does it all the time

[uremog]

All I can say is ... Shieldgrab ...

sounds good to me. against link, that's really all i think you need to add if he's not that good. any beginner level player gets killed by shield grabs a lot. it's a little harder on doc though, since he has an easier time spacing with bair and can fly through you with nair. but doc has a hard time getting inside anyway. work on your fairs and nairs for that.

[Lord Knight]

Against the Link, since he spams, just pressure.

Against Doc, mindgames. Trick him.

[Sir Roy]

Against Link: Stay on top of him. Link's ground moves are generally alot slower than Roy's, and at close distance, he has a much better chance at punishing him. Throws will help, as will good edge-guards (dtilt + Fsmash) Link and Roy are right next to each other in tiers, and there is a reason why Roy is one up on him. Not a super easy fight, but not the toughest by a long shot. (Peach, Jiggly and Shiek...nightmares..)

Against Dr. Mario: The plumber-gone-doctor (somehow) is quite a good deal stronger than Roy himself, so in order to win, you'll need to be the brains of the classical brains vs brawn fight. Learn how to wavedash, pronto. Seriously, it'll help throw off Doc's game, since one of the few advantages that Roy has is a slightly longer reach.

General Tip: Your cousin sounds fairly predictable. If that's the case, counter his ***. Or mind game him. But I'm serious about learning how to wavedash.

[Gregory2590]

I dont think mind games would work on his he just goes up to me and attack without thinking...but then again,mind games dont have to be use for tricking all the time.Maybe they can be used to set up combos am I correct?

[Shade_]

For doc get him off the edge then grab on, his recovery is barely satisfactory, and for link grab those bombs, and shuffle into forward smash alot.

[shirryuoni]

You say you don't think mind games will work on him because he is so straight forward with this attacks, then use that against him, and do as every one suggest and sit back, since you know everything he's going to do, and shield, then hit A right from your shield, And shield grab him every time. if he doesn't stop, keep doing it, eventually he should realize your doing that and change his tactics, if or when that happens expliot him.

[Ky Kiske]

Try to grab Link's bombs so you can use them against him. Swat boomerangs any chance you get. Lcancel your aerials to avoid getting shield grabbed because Link has some pretty nasty throw combos against Roy. Don't be afraid to use your counter against dair spammers. The counter is a really good tool to use against Link since Link has quite a number of powerful hits. If your opponent is getting desperate with his spin attacks, shield and fsmash. If you're feeling pretty brave, then counter. If Link is hanging on the ledge and tries to double jump fair to get back on, counter. It has plenty of kill potential.

[roy21]

how did u make ur sign. like that?

[CounterSpammer]

If the moves are predictible, And your timing is good, use the moves to your advantage.

Dr. Mario has bad recovery, if your using marth, your best bet is throws to get dmg, and use Cstick forward smash to knock him out... Although anything these guys say works too, generally.

Fight him on Final Destination w\out items if you aren't already.

That's all I know, really.