The Peach Slayer

[Player00]

Does Pikachu counter Peach? I have messed around with a lv. 1 Peach lately and I really think Pikachu can mess up a Peach(I have yet to try it against a good Peach, but I will soon). I mean think about it...

1.) Pikachu has quickness, which has always been an enemy of Peach.
2.) If I'm not mistaken, Pikachu can chain throw Peach all over the place.
3.) Its recovery is crazy good, it rivals Peach's.
4.) Pikachu has the most powerful USmash in the game(uncharged), this negates Peach's insane recovery. Pikachu can also combo into the USmash in a few different ways. You can kill even earlier too if you get the lucky thunder in on Peach after the USmash.
5.) He is not easily comboed by Peach, and Peach's DSmash has less uses in the fight(comparatively to things like space animals).
6.) It is really hard to hit Pikachu with a turnup(come on, he's the same size as one).

I really don't see what Peach really has in this game to turn the tides. I never hear anything about this match, so what do you guys think? I'm just excited to have possibly found a counter to the extremely overused seemingly unstoppable Peach, because as we all know, unless your a highly skilled Fox, maybe a Marth, or the lone Jigglypuff player out there, Peach means trouble.

I'm sure that somebody is going to come on here and shatter my dreams with something that Peach can do to really mess up a Pikachu though... I really really hate Peach.

[phish-it]

Actually, I'm certainly not going to say pikachu counters peach, but definately can put up a fight.

For one, I lost to a pikachu player in a recent tournament, but need I point out that was the first experienced pikachu I've ever played. Meaning, I had no idea how to edgeguard the rodent. the Up-B is very unpredictable so I couldn't exactly pinpoint the landing spot. D-throw to Up-smash can be a killer if not properly DI'd, and can do so at fairly low percents as well. Pikachu's D-air has surprising priority: it cancompete with Peach's Up-smash if not timed accurately. What!!!!??? Pika's Uair can screw up the princess if airborne, and it's difficult to sweetspot the edge against an on coming F-smash.

Yeah, thats about what I learned. Feel free to prove me wrong.

[Tope]

Peach is a tough match but Pika can win.

The biggest deal with Peach is her float canceling and her priority, since almost every arial she has beats Pika's.

You can't Chain throw Peach unless she doesn't DI.

Usmash out of shield is too good in this fight.

[Megachuk]

I don't know about a counter, equal... sure. In my experience the only counter is Mario. I ALWAYS at least 2 stock a mario. Range & Usmash destroy Mario. IMHO a good peach should beat a good pika most of the time maybe 6 out of 10 times. The only thing pika has going for him in this match is the Usmash. Sure pika has speed, but peaches priority moves offset that.

[AS Money]

i think a good way is when peach is floting just above ground to zap her with the jolt scince it reaches that high and she will be grounded then simpley do a normal stradigy. and hitting the thunder isnt luck when your good with it

[Zig-Zag!]

The only real big advantage that comes to mind is pikachu;s ability to control the skies with his thunder. A floating peach will think twice about flying all over the stage if she knows pikachu can reach her from there.

[N64]

Pretty much as you and Tope said, I find it a fairly even match (with advantage towards peach, but not as much of an advantage of tier placings make it seem).

Usmash is priceless in this fight, and about any chance to pull it off (via out of shield, run, occasional uair, etc.) should be taken advantage of. Thunderflipping (pictish's term for usmash->thunder) can kill Peach at pretty low percentages, around 80% on most stages. Jolt can also be quite useful, as it bounces along the ground at about the height that most peaches love to float along. The versatility of upB can avoid peach's edge-guarding, as she is comparatively slow in being able to follow the direction one takes in using it.

Pika's main issues in this fight, from my experience, are approach and priority. Peach's turnips, aerial priority, dsmash range/power/priority, and float cancelling game make pika's already weak approach game a joke. Jolts, shffl'd nairs, and jc usmash/grabs are pika's main approach tactics, and peach can usually get around these.

Neither character can easily combo the other, and each has viable ways of killing the other at fairly low percentages (dsmash can kill light little pika fairly easily). While this seems to even the fight out a little bit, through matches one can see that peach's approach and defensive games are simply more solid than pika, which turns the tide in her favor.

Pika, however, does do better in this match than most of the characters around him on the tiers. He's not a counter, but he can hold his own.

[Player00]

Her priority is not a godsent that just lets her beat any character just because they have "no priority". Seriously, there must be more that Peach has on Pikachu in order for it to be "even". However, a lot of things N64 said seem to make sence to me, but I still think Pika has a slight edge in this match, even if it's not a counter. This is saying something though, because seemingly ever other character has a real hard time with Peach.

The fact that Pikachu can't chain throw Peach kind of sank my hopes... is there any character that CAN chain throw her???

[RaptorHawk]

For one, I lost to a pikachu player in a recent tournament, but need I point out that was the first experienced pikachu I've ever played.

Ooh ooh That was me! Yea I've had a little experience with a skilled Peach(Boocif) lol so I had an idea of what to do in the fight.

As for the topic. I find it to be about even. If anything slight advantage peach. Now why I beleive this is simple. N64 pretty much nailed it. YES Pika's upsmash can rape peach, but you have to get enough damage on her first and thats where the trouble is. A turnip happy peach makes Pika's already pitiful approach game even worse, as it makes it hard for him to get in close and the turnips can also cancle any jolts coming her way. Then once you do manage to get close you still have to worry about Peach's aerial and dsmash priority.

Basically what sucks for Pikachu is that you NEED to get close to Peach, BUT in doing so her dsmash rapes Pika. Mainly since Pikachu has the worst sheild in the game trying to block a dsmash pretty much does nothing as it will chip away and hit Pika anyway. But yea in the end its not to bad of a fight.

[mood4food77]

what about his bair, isn't that good against a peach, how about a shffl'd bair into smash into a uair, his projectile is almost useless against a skilled peach because it's slow and laggy, pika can do a dash cancelled fsmash for a mind game, start dashing at her, get close enough for her to just miss hte dsmash and then unleash the fsmash on her, it out priorizes her dsmash, dair is hard to hit because it's slow, she can't edgegaurd pika that well, no one can, his recovery is unpredictable, peach's turnip are really the only thing to worry about, float cancelling is owned by a dsmash from pika and his dsmash does go through the parosal so a great edge gaurd move, i would think pika has the upper hand, his short wavedash also comes in handy for mindgames

[N64]

mood brought up some good points.

I don't see bair being useful for starting combos....ever. It's too laggy of an attack, even l-cancelled, so its difficult to follow it up with anything. It's mostly useful for just getting someone off pika's back or -occasionally- for knockback.

Pika's fmash can be useful in getting around some of peach's defensive game, especially if you can bait her dmashes. All you have to watch out for is that during pika's fmash he stretches out forward before the move actually goes off, so if you are just outside of peach's dsmash range at the beginning of the attack, fsmash will actually move you close enough to get hit by it before the actual fsmash goes off.

Pika's dsmash is also a decent defense against float-cancelling, but priority plays a factor in this too. Peach will most often float-cancel fairs and bairs, both of which will outprioritize or at least trade hits with pika's dsmash. So, most often pika will take a good 10-20+%, while Peach will only take a few percent from 1 hit of pika's dsmash.

I don't see dsmash as a viable edge-guard vs. parasol though. I'm pretty sure the parasol has a disjointed hitbox, so it can hit pika from below before peach gets close enough for dsmash range. Fsmash could be slightly more viable, as it puts pika out of parasol range, but sweetspotting most often avoids the fsmash. Pika's thunder makes recovering for peach limited to sweetspotting, so the best edge-guarding tactics would probably be to wait for Peach to get at about the same height as the edge and attempt a nair, dair, or uair spike. Uair spike, if the opportunity presents itself, is the best option because it takes advantage of peach's lack of vertical recovery (nair and dair, if they don't initially kill peach which given peach's weight is not always an easy thing to do, will send her out and up, still giving her return options). Jolts can also hinder her recovery, but these are generally easier to get around.
I find peach difficult to edge-guard, since she can stall and parasol is difficult to edge-guard against, but that's just me.

[EnigmaticCam]

Wow. I saw this and was totally not expecting the majority to feel that pika vs. peach are about even, give or take. I have problems with peach, more so than any other character. Marth I can handle, Fox I can handle, even the occasional sheik. But that **** peach always gets me.

As already stated, she has extreme priority over pika. You have to play very intelliegently because of this. All your attacks must count. I think RaptorHawk nailed it - upsmash rapes her (especially straight out of a shield), but the trouble is getting there. You pretty much have no approach whatsoever. A turnip-happy peach can be up-smashed between turnips if you're quick enough, but again, you gotta be close enough to do it. As already suggested, get her to dsmash and she's very vulnerable. Just make sure you're not dragged into it, that thing has got some reach.

[Nicholas.Riddle]

As long as the Pika player is good at killing vertically, it shouldn't be too hard to beat a Peach. Pika's too light to get hit more than once by a D-smash...Turnips are easily dodged. ^B is unpredictable...Yeah...

[NJzFinest]

"1.) Pikachu has quickness, which has always been an enemy of Peach.
2.) If I'm not mistaken, Pikachu can chain throw Peach all over the place.
3.) Its recovery is crazy good, it rivals Peach's.
4.) Pikachu has the most powerful USmash in the game(uncharged), this negates Peach's insane recovery. Pikachu can also combo into the USmash in a few different ways. You can kill even earlier too if you get the lucky thunder in on Peach after the USmash.
5.) He is not easily comboed by Peach, and Peach's DSmash has less uses in the fight(comparatively to things like space animals).
6.) It is really hard to hit Pikachu with a turnup(come on, he's the same size as one)."


1.) NO NO NO NO, why you think foxes, marths, and sheiks fear peach?
2.) you are mistaken
3.) peach's is better, i mean, she can recovery from most distances with her float + up b. it's better than to simple quick dashes...
4.) yes. his upsmash is dangerous wen combined with good mind games
5.) peach isnt much of a comboer...period (unless on fast fallers obviously). she's revolves around mind games, that's why most noobs cant get good with her. peach players are smart. buts, dsmash is usefull no matter what
6.) turnup...not one of peach's best moves...dont even mention it

dont underrate one of the best characters in the game >.>
you should try fighting an actual peach player instead of an computer that wont hit you. that why, you can think of some better strats
i suggest you look at some peach vids and realize her potential (find out why she's consider so good)

[Nicholas.Riddle]

Fox/Marth/Sheik don't fear Peach. o.o My friend is a good Peach player...And I play him all the time with Marth, and my brother uses Fox, and he's not scary to either of us...And, yes, Turnip is one of Peach's best moves...It adds into mind-games and if it's the dead one, it can be a killing attack, especially if grabbed in the air and used again...

[FalseFalco]

Pika has AN offensive attack starter(nair), which peach can brush off with ease. Peach has over 5 attack starters that Pikachu cannot handle in the slightest. Her dthrow combos, and pika cant tech far or run away fast enough to effectively break peach's offense.

[Tope]

Marth > Peach if the Marth isn't a scrub.

Sheik > Peach if the sheik is defensive.

Fox < Peach if the peach can chainthrow, and plays smart.

So Fox&Falco got 1 right at least.

[NJzFinest]

Marth > Peach if the Marth isn't a scrub.

Sheik > Peach if the sheik is defensive.

Fox < Peach if the peach can chainthrow, and plays smart.

So Fox&Falco got 1 right at least.
rofl, wtf. peach> sheik. peach easily out spaces sheik and isnt that easily comboed cause of her recovery and weight. peach doest have trouble vs marth but isnt hopeless. ITS DEFINETLY NOT BECAUSE OF QUICKNESS (you kno...the point i was proving), it's because marth has amazing aerial comboes that own floaty characters started at lower damage % and he can easily out range her appoarches. peach isnt hopeless though. oh, btw, i think peach=fox since fox can easily repeative drillshine her to death, u-air combo her, upsmash, etc.

[Player00]

Ummm... I play a very good Peach all the time. And I definately don't underestimate the best and cheapest character of the game. Her "potential" is cheap priority, floating, grabing, and other peachy things(the DSmash). I play Fox and am in no way scared of his Peach thanks to the waveshine.

Quickness IS a weakness of Peach(how in the world could it be a bad thing?).

Peach is a decent comboer because half of the people she plays are in fact fast fallers.

And I do believe I mentioned the fact that I haven't tried this stuff against my friend's Peach yet. That is why I wasn't sure if he could chaingrab her. So before you go saying that I am a common n00b who hasn't played a good Peach, you should really read my post thoroughly.

[NJzFinest]

"Quickness IS a weakness of Peach(how in the world could it be a bad thing?)."

did i say it was a bad thing? NO, it just doesnt help counter her. like, link is widely considered a peach counter (obvious reasons if you kno anything about link) but he's not a speedy character. anyways...couldnt you say quickness would be everyone's counter? therefore pikachu>most characters in the game

"Peach is a decent comboer because half of the people she plays are in fact fast fallers."
no...peach is good in pretty much any match up (in weight). there's not that many fallers in the game...


So before you go saying that I am a common n00b who hasn't played a good Peach, you should really read my post thoroughly.
i did, and u were too vague especially wen you said you dont see anything peach can do to him. i basically had the right to assume whatever. plus, you still have to try it out competively. you made this thread too earliy, hopefully your friend is a ****ing good peach player. oh, and i didnt say u were a noob at all (quote me if im wrong), i just assumed you have no clue about how a competive peach plays...(prove me if im wrong)


"I play Fox and am in no way scared of his Peach thanks to the waveshine."
SAME HERE, look at my last post. fox isnt bad on peach at all. i think fox> peach but the majority of ppl say peach=fox cause of cg and gay priority so i might as well go with the majority of players.

[Player00]

... quickness helps Pikachu beat Peach. Surely you can't go against that...

The reason why I was "vague" is because I know nothing about this actual matchup(Pikachu vs. Peach). But I do know a lot about Peach, as one of the few high level players I play mains Peach. I was speaking about this match hypothetically, because I don't want to just fight him with Pikachu and lose horribly.

I hope that cleared things up.

[NJzFinest]

im, im confused lol. but i'd like to know what strats you find out after playing your friend's peach

[Tope]

[QUOTE=foxandfalco]rofl, wtf. peach> sheik. peach easily out spaces sheik and isnt that easily comboed cause of her recovery and weight.

Like I said, a Defensive Sheik. Those aren't around much anymore. Needle camp, and wait for peach to approach then counter. You don't need insane combo's or anything. Even though jab > fair is pretty funny.


The reason Peach > Fox, (and not by much) Turnips, Priority, Dsmash, and owning his recovery for free. The main idea is you have to keep moving with Peach, otherwise you will eat the drillshine, like you mentioned.

*Note - This doesn't have anything to do with the matchup arguement, but I find it funny that Wife (One of the best Peachs) is now 3-0 against Chillindude (One of the best Foxes) in tournament play.


BTW - I'm suprised you didn't come to pound Fox&Falco. M2K and Ryoko both showed up from New Jersey.

[NJzFinest]

oh, i totally missed out on pound, i didnt hear of it till it was over.

[RaptorHawk]

The reason Peach > Fox, (and not by much) Turnips, Priority, Dsmash, and owning his recovery for free. The main idea is you have to keep moving with Peach, otherwise you will eat the drillshine, like you mentioned.


You forgot to mention her ability to chainthrow the hell out of fox.

[EnigmaticCam]

According to Vidjo, Fox rapes peach.

[Mikey Lenetia]

Fox... Not one of my favorite matchups for Peach, but he doesn't rape Peach. He just can be very. VERY. Annoying to fight.

[ZeldaFreak0309]

A hit-and-run laser spamming Fox can be difficult.. Because he can definitely outrun you.

On topic, I think the only really big thing Pikachu has on Peach is the usmash, which negates her recovery. Oh and Peaches that are trying to sweetspot the edge are easy to tailspike :laugh: But seriously, Peach beats Pikachu in everything else besides speed, even range, and that's saying something =/

[AS Money]

well i dont think pika has that much going for him any more in this match but the skill of the players has more to do with is. cuz yesterday i really pissed off a marth player with pika in a dollor buy in tourny i knocked him out cuz i found that changing between an aggressive pika and a defencive one randomly in one match confused the crap out of him. the last life he couldnt hit me and i finished with the up smash. i dont know how it would work against a peach though the best one i can play against is 45 minutes away

[KillerPichu o.O]

Marth > Peach if the Marth isn't a scrub.

Sheik > Peach if the sheik is defensive.

Fox < Peach if the peach can chainthrow, and plays smart.

So Fox&Falco got 1 right at least.

Hey, Tope. What do you think about a Pika vs. Peach matchup?

[NJzFinest]

ok killerpichu...
Marth > Peach if the Marth isn't a scrub.

Sheik > Peach if the sheik is defensive.

Fox < Peach if the peach can chainthrow, and plays smart.

So Fox&Falco got 1 right at least.
and u said...

Hey, Tope. What do you think about a Pika vs. Peach matchup?
if u read the posts before, you would have realized that he was responding to one of my posts saying

1.) NO NO NO NO, why you think foxes, marths, and sheiks fear peach?

u should of thought a little more b4 saying that, but oh well

[Tope]

RaptorHawk - The reason I didn't mention CG is because Fox&Falco already mentioned it in his original post.


As far as what do I think of Pikachu vs Peach?
It's a lot like Pikachu vs Captain Falcon.

Pikachu can do a lot of nasty things to peach (Usmash, harrass with jolts, uair spike), however Peach
also just in general wins because of priority, damage, throws, turnips, and just overall better game. Also every single Air move Pikachu has, gets stuffed by almost everyone Peach has.
Peach > Pikachu

As far as what Vidjo said.

Vidjo does have a very nice Pikachu, in fact he is one of the originals, however he does say a lot of things. He's kind of like Mow and Neo in that aspect. He also said that Peach has no way whatsoever of beating a Marth.

I think the existence of Wife disproves that altogether.

Edit:

All 'good' Pikachu players should head to the Cataclysm on the 03/04/06 in MA. It should be a fun showdown, I know several have wanted to attend already. This means YOU RAPTORHAWK

[RaptorHawk]

Hmmmm.....Cataclysm.....Just checked the thread on it haha. Looks pretty good. I'll see what I can do.

[mood4food77]

but what about pika's utilt setups, like into a thunder at high %s, or his dtilt which i think goes through peach's downsmash, i know the jolt will sometimes stop her approach but it's really really hard to hit a peach with it,

[Player00]

Ok, I finally got to play this match. It was dirty, I almost won though. In the end I went to USmash the Peach when I though she was stunned and she NAired me. It ate right through my USmash, even though my hitbox was all over her... wow. That pretty much sumed up the whole match.

Then I two stocked him with Fox...

[Pratikah]

First of all, So I dont get accused of anything, Obviously it all depends on the player. If its a good peach vs. bag pika or vice versa, the good player will win. That being said, I would cast my vote, (assuming they were equal players) to pikachu. Sure I may be biased, but what ive seen backs it up. As far as recovery goes, pikachus unpredictabilit wins. Truwe, Peaches recovery is longer than Pikachus, but if Pikachu gets her off over the edge, she id , for the most part, a goner. Pikachus "punt", (launching off the edge after an enemy to hit them with a nair or uair, while simultaneously yelling "punt!") counters Peachs float at a lower height, because the float is relativley slow. Also most Peaches wouldnt float further away from the stage to avoid it, at risk of not being able to get back , same with her umbrella. If Peach is too high for the punt, A Thunder can either kill her or create a barrier she must wait to disentigrate. That usually causes her float to run out and brings her within range of the punt. The turnips of peashes weigh in her favor. The toss of one turnip can cancel out Pikachus fully charged skull bash. But in Pikachus favor, (everyone talks about wding, but get this) Pikachu can ROLL to the other side of Peach and deliver the usmash during her lagtime. Anyway... Ive won against Peaches, and ive lost to them. It IS a really even match, there is no shame to say that they are equals. Despite what Tier lists may say. *Looks up the tier list and shakes his fist at the ice climbers, to whom he has NEVER lost. I mean, comeon. theyre the Ice climbers...*

[NJzFinest]

wow, you dont no what your talkin about. you and the people you play need more experience. you dont seem to understand the full potential of peach and the reasons why pikachu isnt considered a high tier character.
"As far as recovery goes, pikachus unpredictabilit wins."- for every character, there's only two places the oppenent can land when recovering, the stage, or the edge. peach isnt the time of character that goes after the oppenent when recovering. peach players usually float near the edge and wait for the oppenent to come, the either n-air or f-air the oppenent if trying to get the edge. and say if pikachu goes for the stage...the lag from the up b would be pretty unforgivable. if this was fox vs pikachu, the it would be a different story since the shine spike (fox's commonly used edge guard) would be harder to pull of. peach can recover from any point and that's wat really matters.
"If Peach is too high for the punt, A Thunder can either kill her or create a barrier she must wait to disentigrate."- you know peach has one of the best her dodges in the game right? plus...simply grabbing the edge and using it's invincible frames is good enough.
"Pikachu can ROLL to the other side of Peach and deliver the usmash during her lagtime."- ROFL, yea, up, peach has something called the float cancel which cancels 100% of the lag of every aerial A move...plus peach isnt that laggy of a character noob
*Looks up the tier list and shakes his fist at the ice climbers, to whom he has NEVER lost. I mean, comeon. theyre the Ice climbers...*- ....wtf, the ice climbers have 0 to death combos, amazing smash attacks, great recovery, and the best grab in the game., obviously everyone you face sucks, period.

yea, maybe ur new to smashboards and competive play, but i just wanted to like you know that you post at a newb level and didnt make much sense. you should play some skilled players or at least look at some videos of vidjo's peach or chu dat's ice climbers since you dont seem to know anything about these characters, hell, you dont seem to know that much about pikachu urself....any skilled player would argee with me.
take a look at the peach and IC forums, and look at the pikachu guide...here's a link to a vid that shows some of wat peach can do: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=48265
go to video discussion for more...
Ok, I finally got to play this match. It was dirty, I almost won though. In the end I went to USmash the Peach when I though she was stunned and she NAired me. It ate right through my USmash, even though my hitbox was all over her... wow. That pretty much sumed up the whole match.

Then I two stocked him with Fox...
dont make these type of threads based on assumptions rather than actual experience. u'll inspire newbs like pratikah.


and people, dont get me wrong, i myself use pikahcu (but only on actual counterpicks). but dont overestimate him, he sucks. too light, easily out spaced, decent comboing ability, <3

[Pratikah]

*shrugs* As for the up and B, if the peach player is floating near the edgem wouldnt up and bing past her get you out of harms way so the lagtime is safe because peach still has to make it to you? (Also, Can you L Cancel when you hit the ground after the quickattack?) As for the roll, I meant when she was using ground attacks, such as the Fsmash and, with any luck, the Dsmash. Err... im not gonna take the ice climbers thing as in insult, the people that play as them around me should...

-Everything Always Depends On Something-

[NJzFinest]

*shrugs* As for the up and B, if the peach player is floating near the edgem wouldnt up and bing past her get you out of harms way so the lagtime is safe because peach still has to make it to you? (Also, Can you L Cancel when you hit the ground after the quickattack?) As for the roll, I meant when she was using ground attacks, such as the Fsmash and, with any luck, the Dsmash. Err... im not gonna take the ice climbers thing as in insult, the people that play as them around me should...

-Everything Always Depends On Something-
the peach player can just float, so if you up b past her, her float would fall you and reach in within time since the quickattack will have ending lag and it doesnt go very far. and you cant l cancel up b moves...u cant l cancel any b moves, just A moves in the air.
and for the roll, well, peach players rarely use her fsmash...most peach players outspace the oppenent using short hoped float canceled attacks, grabs, dash a combined with dash dancing and wavedashing as appoarches. a simple roll cant counter peache's float cancel. and, yea, the ppl u beat who use IC should give up that character...as for you, keeping owning ur friends :chuckle: but learn more about other characters.

[Pratikah]

*smiles*.. about what you said last, about giving up that character, I have thought about giving up pika, but its like this. If i wanted to be the best player ever, i would start with a top tiep character, but thats no fun. Im happy just becoming the best Pikachu player possible. Thats good enough..