Ganon vs Ganon... just can't

[ledjin]

Hello. I am making this thread just because I've been defeated 3 times by the same guy. Badly. I am actually good, not a pro, but at a competitive level. And this guy, he just banishes me. What really bugs me, is that he's not a Ganon, and I am, and he still beats me! I know I have to improve my speed, but I'd like suggestions about countering... myself, kinda. I thought I'd know since I'm a Ganon, but I don't :( Mmmm specific problems: I don't know how the hell he can go through my shield, especially when I shield and he dairs me. I try to shield-grab him, and I can't. There were parts on the fight that we both did EXACTLY the same thing [was actually kinda funny to watch] and even though we both back roll, forward WD, DD, shuffled fair, and we BOTH connected the fair, I was sent further and got higher percentage, and we both had 0%... I somewhere read there is a priority thing for controllers, like P1>P2>P3>P4 and I'd like to know if it's true or not, and if it is... can it be THIS noticeable?? the guy 3 stocked me!! I admit he's better than me, and I have to improve in order to win, but I'd like opinions and suggestions on how to do it, and if the priority is true or not. Thanx in advance!!

//btw, I was able to defeat him being Peach [me] and he was Sheik, but appart from that, I'm toast.

[Zerb]

Your right about the controller thing. But think about what weaknesses ganon has, like his vulnerable recovery, and punish it.

[Gate Everest]

The controller thing... hm. As far as I know that -only- occurs when both characters hit each other at the same time in a way that would not allow both characters to be hit, which is a lot harder than it may sound. And then it only makes it so the first player gets to connect the move and ignores the second player's. So that shouldn't change damage and knockback when both characters land their attack.

Hard to say what happened there. Maybe I'm just confused on the controller priority.

[ledjin]

Well, the match started, we both did a back roll, then wave dash back in, did a little dash dance, shorthop towards each other and fair... bang! we both hit each other, but I was given more damage and knockback. It was completely synched, and we didn't do it purposely. He was P1, and me, P2. His recovery... I couldn't exploit that very much since I was being owned at that time... hehe but yeah, a good thing to keep in mind. The bad thing... I have a vulnerable recovery as well :s

[Tope]

This match is very simple.

Double Jump Fair as a mind game, all ganons do it anyway.

When least expected pull out the grounded wizards foot.

Also UP + B out of shield is nice when you shield his ariel.

Some easy basics.

[ledjin]

wizard's foot's no good with this guy. Too quick :s but the up+b is good, though I'm not sure about the hitbox and I tend not to pull it if I'm not sure it'll land... gotta check the gif... thanx tope

[Thomas Tipman]

the hitbox is huge (longer than marths grab) so you know its good if in your shield and youve been spaced. ganon can chain grab untill he DIs behind himself *got confused* and that usually leads to a bair/jab/ftilt depending on percent. edge guarding ganon is too fun just stand by the edge a reverse uair or dtilt to ftilt/uair (remember no sweet spot). if all else fails just copy what the other guys doing it is a ditto.

[Vall3y]

ganon can really combo himself good :cool:
umm aside from what tipman said... i guess f-b is a cool suprise(!) move
just dont miss

[ledjin]

Thanx alot TT, u the man! :rockhand:

hehe yea Vall3y, the sideb is surprising, the problem is to NOT miss :p thanx too

the vulture kick... I'd really love to nail him those 2 kicks but it seems to be quite laggy... that.... ditto....... lol

[phish-it]

Nah, the vutlure kick is hardly laggy, even with a missed L-Cancel. Sometimes pivoting (or Wding back) a f-smash or f-tilt can catch the opponent off guard. Also, if he uses a forward b, the wizards foot can out prioritize it, but keep in mind the same goes to him for you.

[DYC]

a short hopped vulture kick if not fast falled Autocancels. you don't even need to lcancel it. there is no lag. a SHFFL'd vulture kick has virtually no lag.

[ledjin]

??? DYC, vulture kick is up smash... u don't l-cancel a grounded smash... u're already on the ground :confused: maybe I'm getting u wrong but, short hop, l cancel, THEN you up smash; what I understand from what u're saying is short hop, vulture kick, autocancel or L-cancel... that's just not possible man, maybe u thought keese, or Ganon's nair... but thanx anyways ^_^

phish-it, yeah, reverse WD and f smash or f-tilt does well, TT also suggested that it was tilted up too... thanx. oh, pivoting too, but I can't pull it a lot, especially with this... guy. lol

u know, after all this advises [and I thank u all for them] I feel kinda "maaan, why didn't I think of that AT the match..." cuz I mean, I AM a Ganon, so I think I was too obfuscated to think well, since I was nervous, angry, etc... I guess I can learn too to be calmed while playing :p And gotta do the upb out of shield :rockhand: =)

[Thomas Tipman]

vulture kick is uair, upsmash is tornado kick or some ****.

DYC if you shffl uair correctly it auto cancels you just have to uair ASAP.

[CStick]

just like any matchup for Ganon, spam fair, bair, uair, and the jab. Try and stay in the middle of the stage. The first one to land a fair or bair over any mid %'s is gonna take that life almost all the time cuz its just too easy to edgeguard Ganon: uair spike, dair, wiz foot, angled ftilt, etc. etc.

Play smart and stay away from the ledge unless you're gonna edgeguard and you're set.

[ledjin]

thanx Cstick, aerials are in my game but there's never too much hahaha [have u seen that guy's vid, Macho Ganon or something like that, he does WAY too many dairs lol] and yeah, the edgeguarding...

and... I can't look more dumb, huh? hehe vulture kick... lol I guess it was the name I liked and confused u all, sorry for that :s :d'oh!:

[Renth]

thing with ganon vs. ganon this is no RIGHT way to have that match it is the BIGGEST mind game you can possibly have look at it this way..
you have ganon.. a slow over powered freak, then you have ganon who plays faster and hits like crazy
main way to survive in ganon vs ganon sneak in with a wave dash chain grab then smack em with a toward airal it's more than proven that ganon is pretty much all air anyways don't fight it do it! hehe
the only match up i have problems with, with ganon is Mario, and Shiek everyone else i've found a way to beat :laugh:

Ganons amazing especially with his Invisible range attacks :laugh:

[Lemming 1545]

If you can master the execution and blocking of the Thunder Drop, that'll be a huge edge right there. Dorf on Dorf, that's the most effective move in your arsenal. Also, chaingrabbing should be a breeze. The Vulture Kick and Hidden Gauntlet will also prove quite useful.

[ledjin]

Thunder Ðrop is mastered [except some times the l-cancelling :ugh:] but chaingrabbing is just hard for me, with any character... gotta keep trying on that. And oh yeaaah, if you [Renth] are talking about his upb when u said "invisible range" yeah haha, did that today a lot, and his up and fsmashes too.

I couldn't fight today that Ganon again, but I had several other matches. The toughest was a Link, but... evil rules!!! lol I hop I can fight that Ganon again soon, I've improved a bit now and I think I can have a better match this time.... tough not sure if I could still win :s


Oh, and Lemming, I'm not a big fan of Hidden Gauntlet cuz I find it akward positioned when fighting Ganon :s I guess it's just me, but I only use it if he gets behind me, I won't face him backwards so I can use that move... any advise on that?


Thanx y'all!

[FLCLalex]

About the Sheild-grabbing, are you missing it or what? You didnt really specify...well, best thing i find for sheild grabbing isnt sheild grabbing, its the up-b ourt of a sheild. I thought it was really hard, but its really quite simple. Just jump(i find that jumping with the joystick makes this way easier) then up B. And you can even turn around with it. Its perfect for the chars that hit you and go past you, because they dont expect an up b. And i dont see why sheild grabbing wouldnt work. Ive played Hugs and DSF's Ganon's, and sheild grabbing isnt a problem...

[ledjin]

Well, about the shield grabbing, I just miss, and he punishes. I know the upb out of shield is great and I now do it more often. How do u turn around by the way? I've done it but not on purpose, You upb and then tilt the other way, or tilt while in the shield then upb, or wut? :)

[FLCLalex]

Hmm, i think when you smash up to jump, then whn you actually execute the move you need to press up more in the direction you want.