Ganon - which moves are KO moves? changed into ranking method

[Vall3y]

So... we are going to make a list of KO moves, because ganon has so many and its just a cool fact that can be used to praise ganon's name :cool:

help us decide so we get the most accurate results

OK! we will try ranking the moves out of 10 according to their KO potential... the list here is just soemthing i wrote in a minute, to start the discussion

jab 4/10
dash attack 1/10
ftilt 7/10
utilt 2/10
dtilt 2/10
fsmash 6/10
dsmash 5/10
usmash 6/10
nair 6/10
fair 10/10
bair 8/10
uair 10/10
dair 9/10
b 2/10
d-b 8/10
f-b 4/10
u-b 6/10
f-throw 1/10
d-throw 1/10
u-throw 1/10
b-throw 1/10

currently i think the most uncertain moves are b, d-b, f-smash, ftilt, and utilt

[RyokoYaksa]

Most of the [-] moves you listed aren't devoid of KO power. They just do so at somewhat higher percents, but at least around 150% depending on your target.

[TestRider]

Yeah, first we'd have to agree on what a "KO move" is...

[KyUuKyUu]

excluding throws and excluding b and utilt: 8 moves out of 17 - 47% of ko moves!


Wouldn't that make it 8/15, since you're taking b and utilt out of the considered move pool?

So... 53%?

[Vall3y]

kyuukyuu, b and utilt are still moves, the idea was seeing how much moves of him can ko out all of them.
but i get your point...
anyway, yeah, lets discuss this thingy... ill edit the main post and put which are clearly ko moves

[SoulSlayerWind]

I think Ganon Down+B is a KO move. I think at around 90%+ it can kill you or send you far enough to not reach the ledge unless the enemy DI the move. You can always use Down+B to spike somone.

[Lemming 1545]

Ooooh yeah, Wizard's Foot is definitely a KO move. I use it for knockouts all the time. Actually, all of Ganondorf's B-Button attacks are KO moves, although to somewhat of a lesser extent for Dark Dive. I'd have to said that all his mid-air attacks are too, with the exception of Swooping Keese. Armor Crusher and Thunder Punch aren't usually powerful enough to "instant-kill" people, but they can be easily used to edgeguard people to death. All smashes are obviously KO moves. Sweeping Snake really isn't so much, but Volcano Kick definitely is. As for throws, you can sometimes get people with the forward and backward throws, but they usually have to be a extreme percentages (250%+). So my list would look something like this:

+|Warlock Punch (neutral B)
+|Gerudo Dragon (forward B)
*|Dark Dive (up B)
+|Wizard's Foot (down B)
+|Nightmare Lunge (forward smash)
+|Windmill Kick (up smash)
+|Leg Whip (down smash)
*|Thunder Punch (neutral A)
*|Armor Crusher (forward A)
+|Volcano Kick (up A)
-|Sweeping Snake (down A)
-|Swooping Keese (neutral air)
+|Skull Crusher (forward air)
+|Vulture Kick (up air)
+|Thunder Drop (down air)
+|Hidden Gauntlet (back air)
*|Forward throw
-|Up throw
-|Down throw
*|Back throw

But again, that's not taking into account what the actual definition of a "KO Move" is. That's just attacks I personally get frequent KO's with. I'd say if we were to actually define KO Moves, it should be something like any move that can send a Mario at between 90% and 110% off Battlefield. Just off the top of my head. But something like that - percentage based against a specific character on a specific stage.

[Igor Kakaroff]

Obviously, it would be his B move.

[phish-it]

I'd say if we were to actually define KO Moves, it should be something like any move that can send a Mario at between 90% and 110% off Battlefield. Just off the top of my head. But something like that - percentage based against a specific character on a specific stage.

Yeah, but they have to be moves that you can actually pull off in a real match. Warlock Punch and Volcano kick will send a mario flying at those percentages, but are certainly not efficient KO moves. I mean, If that were the case, Ness' PK flash would be an incredible KO move.

[SpeedYoshi]

Warlock Punch and Volcano Kick are KO moves
but should be put under a separted category
KO move but not consistantly usefull

edit: changed useable to consistantly usefull

[Toecutter]

Any of Ganondorf's attacks can KO. If at the right damage.

[Best101]

KO moves IMO
dair
B
Down-B
Up-Smash (If you hit with both kicks)
Down-Smash

[Vall3y]

hmm.. i think we should include b and utilt as ko moves only because of their knockbacks, and infact they CAN ko an oppoent with broken sheild or resting puff.
ko move should have enough knockback so it can ko in decent percents
almost every move can ko at 999% but thats irelevant
i guess im gonna do some checking todays on how strong the up-b and ftilt knock back is

[Uncle Meat]

Nair is a killer, surprisingly. I've killed with it using both kicks at like 110 percent or so.

So, I'll say:

All airs.
All smashes.
Down B
B + uTilt (only on resting Puff or Broken shield/ occaisional humiliation edgeguard).

So thats either 9 moves or 11 moves.

[REFUSEDx]

For moves that you actually could pull off in matches Id say:

dair
fair
uair

fsmash
dsmash ( as long as its not a short/crouching char. )
usmash I wouldnt say you could always get the killing kick off in matches if someone can DI well enough.

db can kill at decent percents


I wouldnt say you could pull it off in matches but Ive edgegaurding my friend with his plain a jab move and killed him with it. lol.

[kingraymond]

d smash, u tilt, and d b are absolutely ko moves.

D smash: 75 or over, its pretty good, gets a little to left and right.
U tilt: very very powerful, KO over 40 prolly, rare to get off, too much "charge time" altho tilts dont charge, it takes a while to get it to go. If i screw up an up smash, this is the price i pay. Its funny when it goes off.
Down B- When around 60-90, its good if ur close to the edge of the stage. Pretty good gettin across the stage.. but easily spammable. Use when u have some distance to make up.

[Vall3y]

dsmash kills charactar like link at about 120% in fd
im putting it a * for now

i guess a ko move at 120% is decent for some chars, but ganon can ko at much lower %
does it count as a ko move anyway? =p

[Apøc`]

Bleh... Ganon's can kill in many ways, like all airs, dash attack, all smashes, all tilts ( don't know for the down tilt though ), all B's.

Well Ganon knows how to rape people off with style ( Up air for teh win :) )

[Mann]

Definition of a KO? You people mean just hitting them in the middle of the stage and out?

I still say his Back THrow and a meteor does just as well, at any low percentages. Just as long as the setup is right.

[Comfort Eagle]

Gannon can KO with whatever he **** well pleases. That's why I like to play as him.

[Echoist]

Gannon can KO with whatever he **** well pleases. That's why I like to play as him.

Yeah, me too.

[FLCLalex]

Up B is a killer, if you learn to use it out of the sheild, its awsome too for sheild grabbing cause it can grab people behind you if you aim it that way.

[RedSoxFan3]

Ganondorf can KO with all air attacks. The down B is a great KO move. It's also my favorite move to punish a whiff.

With the rest of his moves, such as the over B or the dtilt, I find these moves are his best combo starters. Ganon only really needs a two move combo to win. :P Anything that leads to any aerial will KO. CC Dtilt to uair ftw. :O

[Falco SSBM]

um...all of them theroretically...LOL GOD I LOVE the G - man...but seriouslly...

[CStick]

dair(spike and as a launcher), uair, bair, fair, usmash, fsmash, wizard's foot, gerudo dragon(on floaties) and thats seriously it. ftilt and dtilt would only kill floaties at super high percents or on small stages, and the warlock punch and utilt are too slow to really use, even though they are almost guarenteed KOs on mid-to-high percents

[JFox]

almost all of his moves are KO moves. I once killed a Fox by interrupting his UpB with my Jab attack.

Rather than putting yes no or maybe, why not put a rating. Like 10/10 would be best, 1/10 would be worst. Sounds more practical to me.

[Vall3y]

you are right... lets try that
ill edit my first post with my thoughts so we have something to start with

[CStick]

Instead of saying which moves CAN kill opponents, I think it would be more specific to say which ones are mainly and commonly used. Most people are not gonna use the jab or dtilt as a KO move.

[JFox]

Uair deserves to be a 10/10 easy. ask Thomas Tipman about his feelings on the Uair, he'll tell you. The reverse Uair spike is easily the best edgegaurd tactic available to Ganon. Watch some TT and you will see how good it is. Best move Ganon has.

BTW, you have it ranked at 8/10, and in case you didn't notice, that means its equal to Down B. :laugh: Nooooo way.

[Vall3y]

you are right, i shouldve give it 10/10
i gave it 8/10 because i didnt consider the edgeguard stuff.. but you are right
i have an idea, lets split the 10 into
5 points on knockback
5 points on 'real usage' (for example b gets 0 while fair gets 5)
moves with special properties like the uair -> reveruse uair spikes get bonus
what do you think?

[CaptainAwesome]

How is BAir not 10/10? Do you guys even play Ganon?

[Vall3y]

i just put a list in less than a minute to have something to start with.. thanks for understanding

[JFox]

Here's my list. (by the way, i prefer the original way than the other way you proposed about points and bonus points)

jab 2/10 It has good knockback, but rarely is the finishing blow. usually used to interupt.
dash attack 2/10 this move sux, but you might get a ko once in a while from a floaty. its better than a throw.
ftilt 7/10 good power, good range, a bit slow.
utilt 2/10 has ko potential, but can barely hit with it. if you do, its one less stock to worry about.
dtilt 2/10 this is more your set up move than KO move. its rare you will get KO's with this one.
fsmash 6/10
dsmash 4/10 slow, not very good.
usmash 5/10 not too easy to hit with. has potential.
nair 6/10 this move is actually under-rated. if you hit it right, you can get some KO's. there are just some better options. but it is fast and strong.
fair 10/10
bair 9/10 just because its a little bit hard to get this move off all the time. it has good potential, but its not easy to connect since its more of a defensive move. you can really go on the offense with it, so its a bit limited.
uair 10/10 great edge gaurd, fast, strong, great priority, etc.
dair 10/10 edge gaurd, and if you hit while they're on the ground this move tears people apart. nice vertical KO
b ... same for utilt
d-b 7/10 strong, but predictable
f-b 4/10
u-b 6/10
f-throw 1/10
d-throw 1/10
u-throw 1/10
b-throw 1/10

[Vall3y]

bair, jab, dash attack ; yeah you are right about that, i agree.
utilt and b; yeah i guess thats good too
the dsmash isnt that slow, and it can ko semi floaties, and can be chained with dair no some... might wanna check it out
upsmash - yeah maybe 7 is too much, but this move also links with dair with some lousy di... i think 6 is more fair.
nair... not certain about it so ill give it 6 like u say
and to ko with dair you need pretty much high % to ko chars that are not light and floaty, so i wouldnt give it a 10/10.. 9 is cool
down b- i dont think its predictible, its actually suprsing imo. the fact that it is berly used is a bonus too. and it can also spike. 8 seems fair
f-b... not certain about kills so ill give it like u say

the only downside of this ranking system is that we cant really tell how much points make a move a ko move so we cant brag about ganon having 70% of ko moves or something :dizzy:

[mood4food77]

ok, in order of KO usage it would go

fair
uair
dair
bair
down b
fsmash
up smash
ftilt
nair
b
utilt
forward b
dtilt
up b
A
bthrow
fthrow
uthrow
dthrow

the highest KO potential is up up smash, it can instantly kill a bowser on FD if both connect, i have done this more than once