Doc's wavedash usefulness

[shanus]

How useful do you find Doc's wavedash? i tend to find that although useful for speed increase and for some occasional wavesmashes and dash under jumps, it is much harder to apply to fast characters like sheik and fox. Do you change up dash styles against these faster opponents by faking a lot or just stop dashing mostly all-together?

[mc-killa]

as about as useful as luigi's.frankly i dont care much about wavedashing

[shminkledorf]

Wow, another WD usefulness topic? Anyway, Doc's wavedash is good for setting up a bair. Instead of dashing up, turning around, then SHFFLing you can just WD backwards.

[white peachy]

try this stuff (**obviously there are many usefull options with doc's wavedash other than these**)

...full hop pill, landing wavedash, if pill connects use a smash, if not, grab them if they shield. also, short hop bair then wavedash (without l-cancelling) as you hit the ground towards your opponent--free attack.

[shanus]

try this stuff (**obviously there are many usefull options with doc's wavedash other than these**)

...full hop pill, landing wavedash, if pill connects use a smash, if not, grab them if they shield. also, short hop bair then wavedash (without l-cancelling) as you hit the ground towards your opponent--free attack.

yeah i do wavedash bairs a lot, never thought of the pill spam wavedash though, ill have to try that one out!

[SoulSlayerWind]

Well...Why not try wavedashing while end it with your shield. Shielddashing or shield wave dash i can't recall the correct name sorry about that. Well Just wavedash and end it with a shield you can Up-Smash through the shield which can help you mix up your fighting style. Rising back air to wavedash is also great to use.

[nightcape1]

WDing is pretty much the only form of movement i use with doc. It sets up well for arials, smashes (fsmash), grabs, combos, mindgames, etc. Doc can utilize his wd better than most characters, especially on tri-form stages.

[SmashMac]

The usefulness of Doc's Wavedash is useful in edge-hogging/edge-guarding. Have your character face the opposite side of the edge and wave-dash backwards to grab the edge. While on the edge just use b-airs and u-airs the keep the opponent from coming back, and/or just edge-hog.

[Ring My Bell]

His wavedash is essential when a character is at high percentages, and you need to edgehog. A lot of times I'll be doing back airs that almost knock the opponent off, then wavedash 3 or 4 times to edgehog back airs to finish them.

[chesterr01]

Nobody mentioned tech chasing. You can tech chase characters with your wavedashes when perfectly done. Wavedash into a dash jump cancelled grab or dash then wavedash smash.

[Gea]

as about as useful as luigi's.frankly i dont care much about wavedashing

You know nothing about Luigi, obviously. His wavedash is MUCH more useful to him than Doc's. Doc's is ****ing useful, yes, but it isn't as nessisary as Lui's is.

[nightcape1]

You know nothing about Luigi, obviously. His wavedash is MUCH more useful to him than Doc's. Doc's is ****ing useful, yes, but it isn't as nessisary as Lui's is.
ur talking about length. in all honesty, samus needs the wd the most, way more than doc and luigi combined.

[maelstrom218]

ur talking about length. in all honesty, samus needs the wd the most, way more than doc and luigi combined.

Your perception is a bit inaccurate. If nothing else, you've completely missed the point of Luigi's wavedash.

Gea's not just talking about length. ICs, M2 and Marth have the longest wavedash after Luigi, but theirs isn't integral to their gameplay. Gea's referring to the fact that Luigi needs--absolutely needs--his wavedash in order to operate. Luigi is floaty and therefore has crappy aerial mobility, as well as having horrible traction. These two elements mean that it's incredibly difficult for Luigi to normally attack the opponent and properly pressure them w/continuous hits/combos the way that Mario can w/shffl'd u-airs, or the way that Flaco can w/pillaring and shine to d-air combos.

However, once you add in the wavedash, Luigi reaches a new level. W/his wavedash, he can now properly follow up high-knockback attacks that will constantly pressure the opponent to create huge strings of consecutive hits. The ability to follow up on hits (mostly w/landdashing from a short-hopped aerial) is an absolute godsend to Luigi, who can now alternate between a short range game (w/u-tilts, jabs, grabs, delayed sex kicks), and a long range game (chase the opponent after knocking them away). . .it's especially advantageous when you consider that Luigi's f-air/b-air/d-air have decent enough knockback which would normally end combos. However, w/the wavedash and its ability to follow up on large-knockback hits, Luigi can constantly pressure the opponent at every opportunity to create complex--and often completely improvised--combos that simply wouldn't be possible w/o his wavedash.

Does Samus need her wavedash? Certainly, given that she has a horrible roll and that her ground mobility is vastly improved by the wavedash. But Luigi needs the wavedash more than Samus ever will. He not only needs it for ground mobility (due to his low traction) but also for sheer follow-up/combo ability, which is something that no other character in the game relies on as much as Luigi does. If you take away Luigi's wavedash, he's basically screwed.

[Zero34]

samus' roll and running speed...

*shudders*

doc's WD is long and has plenty of uses. WD to bair. WD to dsmash. WD to pill spam. WD to edge hog. list goes on and on, but you really just need experience to figure out when to use it

[THE RED SPARROW]

Doc's WD is one of the 2 reasons I even considered using him.

[Hyde]

try this in a match when someone rushes you and does a dash attack, wavedash back with doc, you'll be surprised at his distance and as you wavedash back pull off a c-sticked f smash ^_^ its so cool, or you could combo with the up airs, short hop up air wd forward short hop upair then wavedash short hope forward smash, shuffling is a must!

[mood4food77]

whoever said that IC and mewtwo don't need wavedashing as much as luigi, not even half as much, is wrong, they need it almost as much, mewtwo is slow without and ICs need something to replace their low priority dash attack, so they may not need it as much as luigi but theirs is almost as important

doc's wavedash is what makes doc, doc just about, his entire game is revolved around his wavedash, pill, bair, dash attack, and throw down

[sHy)(gUy]

Ya just like everyone says his WD is what makes him highly playable (WD,Pills,back and nuetral airs,Cape,downthrow into combos and downsmash are docs most important tools)

as for the IC their wavedash is essential to my stlye of play, since they have no air game their WD is their most important evasive manuever, and WD into downsmashes and nuetral and back airs.

(and Hyde ur sig is sweet)

[Toecutter]

as about as useful as luigi's.frankly i dont care much about wavedashing

Amen, brother.

[FlareBlade]

Doc´s WD is one of the most useful WD´s I think.

It´s fast and pretty good to Trick pepole with.
and u can jump, Cape and WD to the edge, jump and Dair your oppoment, that´s what i´m used to do ^^

[that 1 guy]

I can't count how many times Doc's wavedash has helped me. It may not be the most useful, but it is pretty darn good. I use it all of the time to continue combo's, for mindgames, and to increase his speed in general. I would definately keep using it no matter who you are fighting.

[IVP]

Fox's WD is the most useful in the game. Without it he wouldn't could do Waveshining, Flatland Infite and other nice combos like WD + grab, WD + upsmash or even WD + HELIOS =P

But seriosly Doc needs his WD but not as much as Fox.

[Deku Tree]

Dr.Mario needs the WD a hell of alot more, fox has speed on his side, while dr.mario is significantly fatter and slower hes easy to control and harder to knock off the stage than Mario.

[maelstrom218]

Wavedashing is overrated.

It's certainly not necessary to use WDing in order to play at the top of your game, although it does give you a few more options than normal. . .the problem is that newer players who have just come to the Smash scene are "ZOMG, wavedashing is teh roxxorz!!!!!1111" and they spam it at every single opportunity. Doing that is counterproductive b/c it makes you predictable.

It's been said before, but WDing isn't that critical to giving you a win. Ken doesn't really WD that much, and Warriorknight (DA-level player in NY) has made the point of abstaining from WDing--yet both these players perform remarkably well despite the absence of WDing from their game.

To be honest, the primary purpose of WDing is positioning yourself, which applies in mindgames, using certain attacks while moving, or spacing. Dash-dancing, dash-cancelling, jump-cancelled moves, and empty short hops can accomplish exactly what wavedashing can (w/the exception of moving while attacking). In fact, some of the aforementioned techniques even trounce WDing at times. . .i.e. jump-cancelled grabs being better than WD+grab.

Of course, wavedashing has its place. Using WDing when it's necessary (i.e. wavedash back to f-smash w/Mario) is important. . .but people are treating WDing like it's a godsend. It's not.

There's only a few situations where WDing really is required, but even then it's mostly a matter of preference. Characters like Luigi, IC's, Marth, Samus, and Fox all need the WD one way or another to maximize their potential. Luigi needs it to maximize pressure and continue pressure/combo strings, IC's need it to move around in general, Marth needs it for spacing tippers, Samus needs it for mobility b/c her roll sucks, and Fox needs it for his vaunted infinite shine combos.

Take away WD'ing from any of those characters and they get shafted.

Doc doesn't need WDing in the same way that the aforementioned characters do. He relies on fast comboing, Pill Rushing, and edgeguarding, and WDing has no significant impact on any of these areas. WDing is very nice to have. . .it's just not as necessary as many of you are exuberantly claiming.

[supermariopro101]

The wavedash certainly can give you an advantage if used sparringly, however, I've seen many people, including some of my friends, use the wavedash too much. As Maelstrom said, using the wavedash too much can give you a disadvantage. Most noobs will see this move as an opportunity to showoff. Bottomline: Don't use the wavedash unless you have to. Ex: Say you needed to get a quick fsmash for mario in. Wavedashing backwards is a perfect set up for this move as it should put just enough space in between yourself and your opponent to execute. (Just an example).

[sHy)(gUy]

i dunno i think wding and pill spamming go good togther as well as a few other good uses, i personaly dont think u can over use it. obviously u implement it into ur strategic mind games, wding wont win the match but it will give u an edge if used right. of course if u just wd around like an idot not knowing what ur doing is useless but im mean cmon who is really doing that?

[maelstrom218]

of course if u just wd around like an idot not knowing what ur doing is useless but im mean cmon who is really doing that?

A lot more people than you'd like to think. Basically, the people who spam advanced techniques, yet fail to understand how they're supposed to be used.

I see lots of them in NY. Like me.

[sHy)(gUy]

Well then y would u say that wding is overated when it will obviously benifet players when used the right way?

[Gea]

Because its talked about more than things like shffling, which will help your game alot more than wavedashing ever will.

[sHy)(gUy]

I agree that shffling is the most important and then l canceling, but i think wding should also be used in ur game. None of these techs should be called overated.

[Gea]

L-cancelling is part of shffling.

But it is overrated. What is the most popular advanced techinique? Wavedashing. Why? You can see the results immediately. It makes you slide. Its like learning a whole new move! Except... Its just a new way to move. Its for positioning. Position means nothing if you are too slow to chain hits. If you need to wavedash to follow up, fine, do it. That is a great thing for your game. But you'll never get to the point of having the chance to wavedash to follow up if you don't learn other things first.

People lose foresight of what's important over what looks good at the moment. That is why wavedashing is overrated.

[sHy)(gUy]

I still cant agree with u by saying that it is "overated" . Once someone can shffl and what not correctley ,like u say is more imporant, and i agree. Then implementing the wd correctly will improve ur game, its like the last piece of the puzzle to someones game, how can sumtihng so vital be called overated.

[supermariopro101]

You just contradicted yourself by saying it's the last piece of the puzzle to someones game yet it is so vital?

Anyways... take wavedashing out of your game and your will probably stay the same. It's just an extra feauture and sometimes wavedashing too much can cause opponents to know how to counter. In smash you must remain a mystery; always a suprise in store for your opponent.

[sHy)(gUy]

I dont see how i contradicted myself, it is the the last peice to the puzzle to someones game meaning that once uve mastered everything else then u add in wd as the last peice to the puzzle of ur game. I dunno last time i checked the last peice to sumthing being complete is pretty vital.

If you cannot wd effectivlely but can shffl and everytihng else correctly and end up losing a match i could pinpoint exact moments where an effective wd would have given u the upper hand.

[supermariopro101]

The last piece to the puzzle means its the last thing you need to succeed. Not of great importance though while vital is something you cannot live without.

Of course don't take wavedashing out of your game. I was just trying to explain that wavedashing too much is not good and that it probably won't affect your gameplay. I mean wavedashing is useful at times but it isn't vital.

[sHy)(gUy]

IMO the last piece of the puzzle means the last thing u need to become a "great player" (I dunno what the right term would be but some one who can master all techniques and incorporate them effectively) so therefore it is vital to become this (whatever u would call it)

Without effective wding, u will keep urself from reaching ur full potential as a player. (I dont care if u only wd once in match that could mean the win for u)

Even you say that its good to pull out as an element of surprise, which is part of what effective wding is.

[supermariopro101]

Alright whatever?! Still think what I said was correct though
Offtopic:Family Guy's Hilarious. I stay up just to watch it every night.

Wavedashing cannot keep you from reaching your full potential. In fact I hadn't learned about wavedash until a year ago. Now I use it sometimes but it will not affect your gameplay unless you suck and I highly doubt that. You make it seem as if you are totally relying on effective wavedashing to get you a win. Look at some videos of Doc and Mario and see if they wavedash a whole lot.

Yes I did "to the last part."

[James Sparrow]

any value it has lies in mind games and positioning, i don't see much else use but it can be useful in those ways.

[sHy)(gUy]

Yes I have seen doc vids and no they dont wd alot, they wd effectivly which is the whole point im trying to make.(effective wding along with all the other more important stuff = full potential)

[ShortAssassin]

When I'm in a sticky situation or want to play more of a controllish or defensive match I often find myself WDing backwards into a SH pill or mutliple SH pills its an easy way to give yourself breathing room and if your opponent notices you doing it you can work some nice mind games by switching things up.