Doc vs. Luigi

[docnpeach]

I'm having a little trouble beating my boy w/his luigi....Doctor is rank higher in the tier list so why is he keeping up with me...Luigi f-air and d-aid rapes doc..any advice or tactics on how to beat luigi everytime and not sometimes...

[Da illest]

u cant ur dooomed!

[maelstrom218]

Thank you, Da illest. As usual, your posts are stunning and awe-inspiring due to their complete and utter lack of information and grammatical correctness. Please feel free to continue to splurge random and useless portions of your revelatory enlightenment to the detriment of the entire board. Keep up the good work.

Docnpeach, I'm not sure how advanced your Luigi opponent is, but regardless, Pill Rushing works remarkable well, mostly b/c it destroys Luigi's wavedashing game, and therefore takes away one of his key strengths--his mobility. Additionally, you really want to stay grounded or below Luigi, since his aerial priority will rape you no matter what you do. . .to that end, you want to focus on single, hard-hitting shffl's or ground attacks that will prevent you from getting into the air.

Luigi also happens to be impossible to combo due to his floatiness and sex kick, so you want to be careful about aggressively following up your attacks, as you'll get countered by any number of his aerials and trade hits--to your loss, since his aerials will either set you up for further attacks, or have enough knockback to potentially get you off the stage. Focus less on combos, and more on single hits, since comboing in this matchup is nigh impossible.

D-smash and b-air are critical in this matchup. D-smash to get Luigi off the stage (f-air launches him too high), and b-air to either approach w/shffl's or for edgeguarding. Once you get Luigi off the stage, he's basically screwed--the downward-angle knockback of his b-air is especially effective against Luigi since his vertical recovery is horrible, not to mention the fact that his recovery is even more predictable than Mario's.

Luigi is definitely a less-than-easy matchup for Doc, but rest assured that your high-knockback moves combined w/Pill Rushing and edgeguarding are equally potent against his arsenal of high-priority aerials and follow-up options.

[docnpeach]

thank maelstorm218 your advice help alot...i think that what i was doing wrong is playin to aggressive with him...i played him different early today and i was playing with posed and won 80% of our battles..i also found out you got to play him close and CC a bit, plus i took advantage of his poor recovery..

[docnpeach]

u cant ur dooomed!
i wanna play ur luigi one day and we'll find out which one of us is "dooomed!"..
i didn't say he beat me all the time, only sometimes...

[Enochuout]

lol, are you going to take that Da illest?

Cheers!

[Hark21Ball]

Thank you, Da illest. As usual, your posts are stunning and awe-inspiring due to their complete and utter lack of information and grammatical correctness. Please feel free to continue to splurge random and useless portions of your revelatory enlightenment to the detriment of the entire board. Keep up the good work.

Docnpeach, I'm not sure how advanced your Luigi opponent is, but regardless, Pill Rushing works remarkable well, mostly b/c it destroys Luigi's wavedashing game, and therefore takes away one of his key strengths--his mobility. Additionally, you really want to stay grounded or below Luigi, since his aerial priority will rape you no matter what you do. . .to that end, you want to focus on single, hard-hitting shffl's or ground attacks that will prevent you from getting into the air.

Luigi also happens to be impossible to combo due to his floatiness and sex kick, so you want to be careful about aggressively following up your attacks, as you'll get countered by any number of his aerials and trade hits--to your loss, since his aerials will either set you up for further attacks, or have enough knockback to potentially get you off the stage. Focus less on combos, and more on single hits, since comboing in this matchup is nigh impossible.

D-smash and b-air are critical in this matchup. D-smash to get Luigi off the stage (f-air launches him too high), and b-air to either approach w/shffl's or for edgeguarding. Once you get Luigi off the stage, he's basically screwed--the downward-angle knockback of his b-air is especially effective against Luigi since his vertical recovery is horrible, not to mention the fact that his recovery is even more predictable than Mario's.

Luigi is definitely a less-than-easy matchup for Doc, but rest assured that your high-knockback moves combined w/Pill Rushing and edgeguarding are equally potent against his arsenal of high-priority aerials and follow-up options.

OMG that is awsome. I am gonna take this advise and use it against my friends. This will really help out a lot thanks a bunch.

[FireEmblem81387]

When being the Doc, you have to be patient because Luigi floats longer in the air and it's hard to hit him because Luigi can attack back with the Karate Chop or the Kick. What i'd do is perform some air attacks (surprise him) or do side-dodging and attack right back before Luigi does.

[VilNess]

This matchup is even.
While Pillspamming can greatly reduce Luigis movement he can still tilt those pills with his ftilt or he can aerial them.
Luigi has really long f-tilt so he can safely knock those pills from a distance and not get owned by landWD after fulljumppill.

Luigi outranges Doc overall pretty good. Doc has teh bair and nice aerial mobility which work as an excellent edgeguard which evens it out.
Docs dsmash sets for edgeuard and horizontall kills, Luigis dsmash sets up for comboing and vertikills. Fun.

anyway Pillspam isn´t all. these plumbers are pretty good at kicking each others as$ around. should be an entertaining matchup.
Anyone wanna moneymatch me Weegee :) ?

[SmashMac]

Roflmao maelstrom218. Good information maelstrom218.

[Ring My Bell]

Let me bear in mind that just because a character is higher on a tier list that no one even agrees upon totally, that certain characters have inherant advantages over others. Mario clones are the most apparent of these advantages, because most likely it is rock/paper/scissors if both players are at equal skill level. Lugi>Doc>Mario>Luigi. Follow this and you cannot go wrong.

[Brahma]

My bro plays a bit of Luigi and frequently comes through my pill rushes with shuffled sex kicks, which take priority over my pill followups.

One trick I like using is caping his WD. It turns him around and if he starts and ground attacks (throw, smash) they will usually whiff because he's facing the wrong way or it puts him out of range. Watch our for shuffles out of WD though because these will get turned around by the cape and still hit you.

If you have to take him on in the air, make sure you put a pill in his face first. Also, use the cape to stall yourself in the air and make him whiff, then follow up with a fastfalled attack.

[maelstrom218]

Originally posted by Ring My Bell
Mario clones are the most apparent of these advantages, because most likely it is rock/paper/scissors if both players are at equal skill level. Lugi>Doc>Mario>Luigi. Follow this and you cannot go wrong.

Your claim that some characters have inherent advantages over others is correct. However, your assessment that Luigi>Doc and Mario>Luigi seems to be a bit off--in my opinion, of course.

As VilNess said above, the Doc vs. Luigi matchup turns out pretty evenly. He put it perfectly, so I don't want to try and botch up what's already a succinct and fluent explanation.

As for Luigi vs. Mario, the matchup very much goes in Luigi's favor. . .perhaps not by a significant amout, but it's noticeable. As I've said many times and in many places, Mario's greatest strength is his edgeguarding, and his combo game--and Mario's edgeguarding game works wonders in this case, as fireballs (fireball spikes, or interrupting side-b's), b-airs, and caping (both the up-b and side-b) are all lethal against Luigi.

However, edgeguarding will only occur if you happen to get the opponent off the stage. W/Mario, he lacks the high-knockback moves that most other characters have. . .his sex kick and d-smash are pretty weak, though Mario's f-smash will work well here as it outranges Luigi. Nevertheless, w/o high knockback moves, Mario relies exclusively on combos to rack up damage on his opponent so his f-smash/d-smash/sex kick can be more effective, and open up an edgeguarding opportunity.

And guess what? Luigi is impossible to combo.

Given Luigi's extreme floatiness, and the fact that his sex kick outprioritizes everything in the known universe (almost), Mario's standard u-tilt/u-smash/shffl'd u-air combo game is practically useless here. At this point, Mario is forced to rely on very, very short combos (i.e. short combos from jabs, grabs), and focus mainly on outranging him w/the f-tilt/f-smash, and using hard-hitting aerials. And unfortunately, that means engaging in a shffl'd or otherwise aerial battle w/Luigi, who happens to be notorious for his hard-hitting, high-priority aerials.

Add on the fact that Luigi has a frightening amount of ground mobility due to his wavedash, and an entire arsenal of high-knockback horizontal/vertical finishers that take advantage of Mario's floatiness and generally crappy recovery, and you should be able to see why Luigi vs. Mario is a matchup in Luigi's favor.

That's not to say that Luigi rapes Mario. . .and that's certainly not the impression I was trying to give. It's just that Mario's fighting a difficult battle against Luigi, as opposed to Doc being on equal footing w/Luigi.