Like a stone!

[CaliburChamp]

A thread for defensive tactics.

Most people dont use Kirby's stone move. I think it is good for something, and that is when a Fox, or some other character, tries to juggle you... or up-air you a bunch, when Kirby could get a quick invisible fall to safety, and gets out of the stone at a viable time when you dont think your opponent will hit you.

Dont Up+B if opponent might hit you out of it. Kirby will do just fine, floating his way to the edge, from under the edge, since Kirby has floats he could meteor cancel a spike.

Anti- SHB against Falco my ducking, and making your way to him.

Thinking Kirby's dash sucks? Well it does if used in the wrong way, its a good move though to get in some damage, since Kirby is kinda slow. So if your able to hit your opponent with the last few frames of the fireball, you could end of controlling a combo after that.

[nitro-blazer]

IN the air? if a fox goes for a U-air the stone may be able to fake out, then fall fast enough, Knockiing them Upward, allowing you to get down quicker, but on the ground, the opponent can just wait, or grab combo. the stone is to unreliable at low heights. Up high? the Fox can still airdodge if he is fast enough, to the side, then fall and porlly still be able to get you out of it.

With the Cutter, sweetspotting is the key. Alternatively, you COULD go right under hte ledge and get them into Kirby's edgegaurd combo. But on lightercharacters, i'd go for a sweetspot.

[Omnigamer]

Stone can't really be reliable to get you out of much at all, seeing as it takes half a second before you have any other motion or invincibility from it. And when you try to come out of it, there's another half a second of complete vulnerability to worry about. If the stone were similar to what it was in Classic Smash, it'd be a lot more useable, but as it stands now its offensive uses are quite nearly nil.

You have to approach a shb falco through the air or waveshielding. Kirby's too vulnerable to a quick dair when he's crouching trying to avoid the lasers, and Falco has a lot that will mess him up pretty badly.

Sweet-spotting with the Final Cutter is one of the best options in nearly all situations. It takes a long while to learn just how Kirby moves while he's performing the move, but eventually you'll be able to evade surprise aerials easily and still pull off the hit frames at just the right spot. It's still dangerous if you're unfamiliar with it though.

Dash attack, for the most part, does indeed suck. If you do it to any standing opponent, all they have to do is shield and grab, allowing them several free hits. But there are tricks. Whenever you have an opponent lying on the ground, and you have the distance about right, you can usually surprise them with the last part of it with proper timing, and it'll set up for utilt combos. This includes chasing techs, as well. But it's still a very vulnerable attack, I don't recommend relying on it too much.

[_the_sandman_]

If you ever use the stone in the air, make sure the terrain below is tilted. For example, The top fin part on Corneria, or the mid tunnel in Hyrule Temple. If you land on a tilted part of the level, Kirby will slide out of the way, giving less a chance of your opponent to retaliate.

If you time it right on the ground, you can actually damage opponents by sliding into them. Yoshi's past stage, Brinstar Depths, and Hyrule Temple are a few levels in which this trick works.

[nitro-blazer]

The thing is, the lag will kill both of those options. THe lag in the air allows the oppoonent to get down fast enough, and most people will kow which direction you will slide.

Ok, to attempt to clear up my view of the stone once and for all.

I believe the stone was made more for the Multiplayer, FFA, Item, Etc portion of SSBM. NOT competetive play. It needs to be used when people don't focus on you. No matter what you do, the opponent can ALWAYS easily ShieldGrab, Shield, Grab, wait, giving them a chance to charge something, etc. Its just not a good offensive maneuver. Its not a good defensive maneuver, it isn't good for Evasion, Edgegaurd. It has 1 small use for recovery. As of which Kirby has Better options.

In Conclusion, Stone is a failure at life.

Also, sorry if i sounded angry, rude, or if you thought i was getting mad at anyone in this post. My brother just killed my DS... ;_;

[Omnigamer]

If you time it right on the ground, you can actually damage opponents by sliding into them. Yoshi's past stage, Brinstar Depths, and Hyrule Temple are a few levels in which this trick works.

That much is false. The hitbox disappears as soon as Kirby hits the ground, so any amount of sliding would just serve to displace Kirby. It's also important to note that not all slants will cause Kirby to slide... for example, Kirby will remain motionless on the two side platforms of DK64.

[CaliburChamp]

I always get out of stone while in the air than on the ground. Only reason I use it, is to escape juggles, and it saves my life since kirby needs the speed to get down right away. And I can see if they are range of attack or not, if they arent in range of attacking Kirby, I get out of the stone while in the air. Just a little prediction and knowing the your opponent character could help tons more.

[_the_sandman_]

The thing is, the lag will kill both of those options. THe lag in the air allows the oppoonent to get down fast enough, and most people will kow which direction you will slide.

Ok, to attempt to clear up my view of the stone once and for all.

I believe the stone was made more for the Multiplayer, FFA, Item, Etc portion of SSBM. NOT competetive play. It needs to be used when people don't focus on you. No matter what you do, the opponent can ALWAYS easily ShieldGrab, Shield, Grab, wait, giving them a chance to charge something, etc. Its just not a good offensive maneuver. Its not a good defensive maneuver, it isn't good for Evasion, Edgegaurd. It has 1 small use for recovery. As of which Kirby has Better options.

In Conclusion, Stone is a failure at life.

Also, sorry if i sounded angry, rude, or if you thought i was getting mad at anyone in this post. My brother just killed my DS... ;_;

Nah, you're not rude, I understand. And true, all of those reasons for the stone do make it a useless move. But I know if you use it right, it can let you escape once you hit the ground. You should try it in Hyrule Temple, and other leveled terrain. You will see how much speed the stone can get.

Lets say your opponent is in the air, as well as Kirby. Of course the opponent will move, or dodge out of the way from your stone attack. But when you land, you could press B to change into his normal mode, but you'd be open to an attack. Sliding helps the escape to a safer area. Experiment with this one, probably in a free for all so opponents won't take too much thought in the escape.



That much is false. The hitbox disappears as soon as Kirby hits the ground, so any amount of sliding would just serve to displace Kirby. It's also important to note that not all slants will cause Kirby to slide... for example, Kirby will remain motionless on the two side platforms of DK64.

Sorry if I mislead you. I didn't mean sliding in general would damage the opponent. But if you slide off an edge, allowing Kirby to free fall in the air again, then he can hit the opponent. There are several stages that allows this. Brinstar Depths has so many jagged terrain on the side, that Kirby can slide down the whole thing (if its almost vertical on that side). But theres a lot of free falling moments while sliding down the side, allowing chances to hit opponents.


Its fine if you guys don't agree with me in these tricks. But I know for sure they work. And they can be effective if used correctly. I don't use stone too often myself. Yes, stone is a bad move. But I just had to support my opinion in its use. Besides everyone uses different tactics. Some Marth players use the charge B, or some Mario players effectively use the Mario Tornado. Some people just have that desire to use a terrible B move I suppose.

[Dr.Peabody]

the only way u will hit anyone with the stone is if u catch them in the middle of an attack, such asi f u ff, they attack, but u stop right above them with the stone or w/e

anyone hit with this wont be fooled by this trick twice though

[g-regulate]

dunno if someone wrote this, but my buddy kirbstir likes to use it if hes up high, directly above a ledge (because he must evade my awesome falcon aerials), and rock-drop to right at the ledge and grab it, seems to get me most of the time.

[nitro-blazer]

That was mentioned in the Kirby discussion topic. I'd consider it a recovery technique, not necessarily defensive play.

[Gimpyfish62]

sandman lives here and the bowser board offering noob advice, no offense, but you may 'know these things work' on yoru friends, but is SERIOUSLY doubt you play at ANY kind of competitive level after reading some of the advice you give.

[kirbstir]

wd away to a f/dtilt is one of my favorite pokes for an incoming shffl

[Hark21Ball]

God i hate using the stone. To me its just a waste of time. Unless im in a FFA then the stone is a different story. :chuckle:

[superryan]

Most Falcos know how to aim as low as a Kirby/Jiggly ducking anyway(well they should), so it doesn't really stop it.

[nitro-blazer]

Most Falcos know how to aim as low as a Kirby/Jiggly ducking anyway(well they should), so it doesn't really stop it.

Even so, its rather timing specific, but you have a good point, Kirby won't be moving much. Falco gets kirby into the air and i have no idea what happens from there.