mewtwo so called reflector

[Shadowfox025]

do u think mewtwo's reflectr (down-b) is useful in a fight. Since the move reflects but when reflected doesn't damage the person the perjectile is sent too. i dont use it only to flip my opponent but im considering because u can recover fast from that move.
WOULD U USE DURING A FIGHT?

[AmishTechnology]

You're referring to Mewtwo's Side B, which is officially known as Confusion. It is crap except for Tiny Melee Recovery and reflecting stuff when you're enemy is far away and can't touch you before you complete your attack animation. Enemies can just B-Air you out of the Confusion. Don't use it. Master power shielding. *Imagines a scene where Mewtwo rushes a Fox, throws a fully charged Shadow Ball, Fox reflects it, Fox cancels his reflector, Mewtwo PSes the Shadow Ball, it hits Fox and Mewtwo edge-guards Fox to his death.

[Chris of STARS]

It can be useful when you are trying to recover. When you're airborne, it serves the same purpose as Marth or Roy's Side-B, in that it changes your trajectory and descent speed, which can mix up any edgeguarding anticipation that your rival is waiting on.

As an actual offensive move, it's not good at all. Mewtwo's lag to get out of the animation move is just as long, if not longer than the time it actually takes your enemy to recover out being flipped, which essentially makes it useless, or even broken some might argue.

If you can work it into your mind games reflecting projectiles from far away to maybe catch your opponent off guard for a moment, maybe it could have a small amount of potential, but it's entirely situational. Also it's pretty craptastic that when you reflect things, they can't even damage your opponent...meh to this move.

[MookieRah]

Yeah, powersheilding is nice, and don't let anyone tell you it isn't worth learning. I have become pretty consistent with it and I can do it about 1/4th to 1/6th of the time. It's really fun, cause your opponent doesn't really expect it, and after doing it a few times in a fight they begin to wonder if they should continue to launch projectiles at you.

[Shadowfox025]

i really dont use it for offensive or defensive but i do use to get back onto the stage. Whats PSes is that down B where he puts them to sleep. really waht to know

[FalseFalco]

I bet in the early days of smash when the projectile didnt hit the opponent it caused m2 players quite a bit of confusion

^_^

[kaid]

I've been doing a littile expirimenting with Confusion... Once, I managed to pull an edgeguarder THROUGH the nose of the Great Fox, then recover to the cannons, and back to the stage.

Has anyone done any expiriments as to it's usefulness as an Aerial? DIing out of the Bair? (not shffl'ed)

[AsuraWeapon]

Mewtwo's Down-B, Disable, is not very useful... i've managed to catch a few unsuscpecting people offguard on the low platforms of Termina Bay and get a KO, but that's rare... though almost as useless, Disable can be used in the air as an interesting edge-guard though (drop a stunned player to their doom)... Disable can be used to slow your falling speed, but it has some bad lag that can leave you vulnerable and unlike Confuse, it won't change your direction or do 10% if you connect with it...

Mewtwo's Side-B, Confuse, can be pretty useful though... as a recovery, it bumps you up in the air slightly and is followed nicely by a Teleport, but NEVER use Confuse twice in a row-- you'll sink like a stone... if you have a good feel for it, you can use the Confuse glitch to pull people through platforms or even edges, just make sure to either grab the ledge first or Teleport immediately or you'll find yourself edge-hogged... using the attack more offensively is interesting... don't do it often, but Confuse will go right through shields... be careful of immediate arial attack though... using Confuse to reflect has its benefits though... a reflected projectile item will still cause others damage, and while reflecting energy won't damage others, it is beneficial for mind games with 3+ players as it might force unknowing players into air-dodges or shields...

also, while Shield Reflecting is useful, trying to reflect a full-charge Samus shot can be suicide if your shield is worn down...

(i like using Confuse as an insult move too... lol)

[Snakebite]

Hmm Ive tryed it against a marth and they pritty much f aired me into a combo, the move is broken and is pritty much another one of m2 moves that are useless.

It should really be like mario's cape.
I'Ve seen lots of glitches with this move, such as your opponents spinning into the ground of fd. I spose in the sense it can be used to interupt edgeguarders could be good.
But it's just to lagy I think.

Ha ha power sheilding ha, is it any easy with m2 than with other charectars?
prob the same I suppose

I've edgeguarded a jiggly, and zelda with disable from a down throw.
Sorta like using b air to edgeguard but around the otherway, although the range of this move is pritty pathetic and I'd rather Bair anyday.

It just looks cool.

[AngeloBangelo]

I bet in the early days of smash when the projectile didnt hit the opponent it caused m2 players quite a bit of confusion

^_^

Brilliant! Also, powershielding is a bit too tough to do consistently. I mean, 1/6th of the time is really good. I wish I could have it down that well. I'm like 1/10th. :(

[MookieRah]

Powershielding is tough, but the rewards are great. It seriously fux with your opponent.

[Titanium Dragon]

If you learn to powershield perfectly, you'll be the best smasher ever because everyone would be pretty much screwed against you. It would probably also imply that you had near frame-perfect timing though, so you'd probably be better off playing fox and using his infinite ;P Its definitely a skill worth learning and practicing though; I can do it a fair bit of the time and it really does throw people off. I'm probably around 1/8th of the time though, a bit better than random.

More seriously, though, confusion doesn't seem terribly useful to me. Its alright as far as recovering goes and can be used to save you from the odd projectile while recovering, but as far as using it offensively it is pretty bad. The only real use of it offensively that I see is using it to glitch people through some stages and down to their doom underneath. If it was made into a true reflector in the next game it might be halfway useful, but as it isn't it is pretty worthless. It'd be even nicer if he got a globe of energy like he did in the Pokemon movie - its not like it would break him or anything.

But I digress. Disable (his down-b) doesn't strike me as exactly his best move either; it does have a few advantages though. A wavedashed disable is moderately useful because it has more range than most would expect and allows you to do something else unpleasant to them afterwards. Also, if someone is coming at you on the ground from "uphill", disable does run along the ground and can be used to stun them as they come. But,if they know anything about the move they'll just jump over it and short hop you, though if it is at the top of a hill it can sometimes nail them if they try this. Other than that, I don't really use it much, and even so, I hardly use it. It can mess with your opponent though, because a lot of people aren't used to it.

[Your_Rival]

I only use confusion to get back mainly. Sure it's fun to smack Samus' large blast away and say "get that outta here", but Mewtwo's regualr shield is so big and it is actually VERY good at reflecting itself. I can't tell you how many times I've reflected samus' blast with it. I can even get missiles! Anyway, the only other time I use it is to do something random because most likely, it won't be expected and you won't get punished. As for disable (which should really be hypnosis shouldn't it?) I am actually finding it to be pretty useful now. It's good if you can hit a ganon or falcon with it at a low percentage, then do it again to knock them off the stage because they are SOOOOO easy to edgeguard with Mewtwo.

[nitro-blazer]

In a sense, its like a slower, powered down Cape. Heres why i think this.

It Reflects Projectiles, although they don't do damage like The Cape reflected ones do.
It Turns them around, altough the ge tthere third Jump back, and its alot slower.
It can help recovery, which Mewtwo has enough of already.

I'm no Mewtwo expert, but i don't think it would be very useful.

[MookieRah]

The only time I use confusion in the air is if I flub a horizontal teleport.

Confusion is horrible in "aiding" his recovery. It slows down his horizontal movement and it doesn't give him much height. Also the lag afterwards is so bad that people can typically take advantage of it if they react to it fast enough.

If you guys want something that aids his recovery you can time an aerial attack at the peak of his second jump. If you do it right it will slingshot him about 25% higher than normal. I often use this trick to nair through an unsuspecting foe because they think I am going for the ledge, but instead i go beyond the edge and smack them in the face, which knocks them back to where I can edgeguard them.

[VilNess]

If you guys want something that aids his recovery you can time an aerial attack at the peak of his second jump. If you do it right it will slingshot him about 25% higher than normal. I often use this trick to nair through an unsuspecting foe because they think I am going for the ledge, but instead i go beyond the edge and smack them in the face, which knocks them back to where I can edgeguard them.

Brilliant. I wish Ness had this :cry:

[grayfox]

Yeah it's a good trick. I used to use it in BTT to get a target that was miles away with one of my rubbish strats heh.

[Tempest 01]

this is a cry for M2 help. sorta...

pple keep saying that they use confusion to recover, but how? his recover is good enough as it is. and his reflector is good against noobs, thats it.

[unknown522]

do u think mewtwo's reflectr (down-b) is useful in a fight. Since the move reflects but when reflected doesn't damage the person the perjectile is sent too. i dont use it only to flip my opponent but im considering because u can recover fast from that move.
WOULD U USE DURING A FIGHT?
It can still be used during a melee match to hit someone can't it?

[MookieRah]

Confusion sux as an attack and as a recovery method. The lag on it is just too long.

[Snakebite]

It's not a move but a another cool taunt, Confusion can interupt stupid edge guarders though.
Problem is it always sucks them down onto the edge, Smart people will be a wake up.

Though I once used it on this silly link , and he managed to down (a) right off the level.
You guys ever seen this move work? Or had any funny experiences with it?

But as mookie said they should replace it whith Koopas claw.

[Mewtwo is #1]

Yeah, I agree about Mookie on the Koopa's claw type move too...Mewtwo needs to be a little broken!

Yeah, I've had funny experiences with it. I was at a high percentage and got smacked quite far away, while I was returning my foe decides to edge-guard....so I used confusion on him at the right time and he went right through the platform...Basically an instant death (this was on the battlefield level). Also it's fun to freak out your friends with it, it they don't know Mewtwo well, they generally freak about a projectile coming back at them.

[Mew2Mad]

yeah its funny I keep telling them it doesn't kill the shooter but they always edge dodge cause they're scared it might just miraculously kill them. Mind you I find confusion handy on team battles with friendly fire on.

[darkshadows]

Note to public:
When you try to use confusion to reflect Pikachu/Pichu's jolt, the thunderjolt just spins around in front of mewtwo, then hits Mewtwo.
<sarcasm> Incredibly useful </sarcasm>

[Mewtwo is #1]

hmmm, most of the time, on other occassions, it does spin around and head towards Pikachu/Pichu. On a side note, if Mewtwo could reflect items with confusion and change the ownership of whatever it was to himself, it would rival even fox's shine. Why? Confusion reflects projectiles even after confusion has been used (for a short time). An example of this is quite often when I face falco he uses his blaster, and I can reflect it before he even fires (the blast exits the barrel and is immediately sent back at Falco).

[kaid]

[random fact]I've actualy managed to get Pika's jolt spinning like darkshadow said, then somehow got out of the way. Pika' jolt spun around in the air, circling nothing till it ran out of distance.[/random fact]

[Ryo242]

I can only think of it as a way of just racking up some extra damage....
Q: Can you hit a shielded person with it?
If so, then it can be used as a way to stop shield grabbers.

It can also be used to power up red shells <i.e. Soul Stunner Glitch>, which doesn't help if you play without items on.

Down+B is much more effective in stunning to KO, if you have a fully charged B shot...

[Ceipe]

....As for disable (which should really be hypnosis shouldn't it?)....

I agree, I think HAL was running oput of time and needed a character, so they decided to use m2, but they didn't really knew what his attacks were, since they are based on the series rather than the game (this is why goldeen, not a bad pokemon in the game just splashes, which is skiploom, feebas and magikarp's techinique). And since n the series m2 has no apperance and on the movie he rarely uses attacks they had to think of something and put the names that "fitted".

The proof is is based on the series? Well m2 is one of the fastest characters in Pokemon, yet one of th slowest in smash, this is because on the movie he didn't eally walked and moved reaaaaaaaally slow, until the fight which....takes ple in the air, thus giving him tha amazing save. Also, he has confusion and disable.....they look more like BARRIER (the must have techinque for any m2 on the game since he has such a low Def and S. Def) and Hypnosis he's the clone of the master pokemon mew (funny wnough m2 is no 150 and mew is no 151 :confused: ).

The proof that the did him on the last minute? His air attacks are extremely weak, his b-air has almost no range and is reaaaally slow, in comparison to his f-air which is fast and powerfull. He's the only character that can't attack to his back, all smash-down moves hit both sides, except m2's. Finally, his weak-a move up is the same as his u-air.

The reason his bottom tear? He was made on the last minute and couldn't make a character strong enough so they gave him some "compensation" such as his ridicuosly fast air dodge, long save, teleprot (both b-up and air dodge) and his grab.

[MookieRah]

First of all, I don't think any of that stuff about M2 being jipped due to a halfassed job cause of a lack of time are true at all. I just think that the gametesters never reported the imbalances he had with the rest of the cast, because they aren't required to. They were there to make sure there weren't bugs in the game. I think for the most part Mewtwo is a greatly designed character, the only true mishaps being his weight, speed, and a few of his B moves.

I also don't think Mewtwo is bottom tier.

[Ceipe]

Well the fact that m2 is by far lighter and slower than pikachu, which would incurr in a technichal bug, since in the game they are extracted from that would be simply impossible. I think m2 has a great potencial, but the learining curve is so high that he has to be bottom tier. Maybe u will now say, but the...he should be higher, but in theory there is no stronger character, a good smash player should be able to play with all characters and there is always a way to counter a players game type with any given character.

[MookieRah]

Well the fact that m2 is by far lighter and slower than pikachu, which would incurr in a technichal bug, since in the game they are extracted from that would be simply impossible. I think m2 has a great potencial, but the learining curve is so high that he has to be bottom tier.

Mewtwo isn't *that* hard to use. He is only wierd at first. After a while he because easy to use. You just have to get over that first hump.


Maybe u will now say, but the...he should be higher, but in theory there is no stronger character, a good smash player should be able to play with all characters and there is always a way to counter a players game type with any given character.

In theory HAL planned to have no stronger character; however, their is no "perfect balance" and there are characters better than others and characters that absolutely destroy other characters. Some not so much, some a lot. Regardless it is *possible* to win with any character, but I don't think you truely understand the odds of that. While I don't think Mewtwo is bottom tier, he definitely isn't beyond top of low or bottom of mid, so there are still pretty big hurdles one would have to overcome in order to excell with him to the point that you can consistently beat extremely high level players.

[Ceipe]

hmmmmmm...............i smell a fanboy!!!!!!!

Well that's kinda off-topic, but yes I am a pkmn fan (if thats what u meant) that's why I was so pissed when m2 was made clearly weaker than pikachu.

Mewtwo isn't *that* hard to use. He is only wierd at first. After a while he because easy to use. You just have to get over that first hump.

I know he isn't that hard to use, it's all a way of getting used to, but he has one of the toughest learnining curves.


In theory HAL planned to have no stronger character; however, their is no "perfect balance" and there are characters better than others and characters that absolutely destroy other characters. Some not so much, some a lot. Regardless it is *possible* to win with any character, but I don't think you truely understand the odds of that. While I don't think Mewtwo is bottom tier, he definitely isn't beyond top of low or bottom of mid, so there are still pretty big hurdles one would have to overcome in order to excell with him to the point that you can consistently beat extremely high level players.

I know there's no perfect balance, that's what I said on another post, some characters have been faaaar too compensated, just like m2. What I meant when I said u can defeat any character with any other, is thta based on the gametype of a certain plyer u can break their style and defeat them. I know there are chars who simply have an advantage against others, but with time u can learn how to see through the weaknesses and come with a solution. Though it may not always work, you'll catch ur enemy off-guard.

[MookieRah]

Neh, I think Mewtwo is overall better than Pika actually. While Mewtwo's got a lot of weaknesses his moveset allows for quite a bit of diversity, much more than what Pika is capable of in my opinion.

Anyways, yeah, it's stupid some of the decisions they made towards Mewtwo, but if he reflected his abilities from pokemon he would be by far the best character in the game, and straight up broken as hell.

[Ceipe]

I agree, but thats the point of introducing the strongest character in a particular game (well in this case anime), right? Otherwise why notput in another of Ash's pokemon, or at least a pokemon not recognized as a LEGENDARY which's name makes allusion to very very powerfull. M2 is I think underused, I've started to use him again (going from Fox to M2 was quite hard) and now I have got some pretty interesting combos. The problem with m2 is that u must use advanced techniques, and that kinda throws some ppl who are become familiar with them to ditch this char.

Personally, I think that m2 has one advantage over the rest, u have to watch really carefull to guess his moves, his sidestep dodge is almost invisible, he dissapears and his roll dodges can be performed so that u can tarvel with them faster than u could with a WD.