M2 vs Falcon

[Beeble]

This is an attempt to immitate the bowser forums and start some serious discsussion towards m2's matchups. Hopefully by creating more of these threads will help those out there trying to use m2 in a competitive environment.

Well spaced/timed grabs have done wonders for me (next time falcon goes for the shuffled fair, grab him) but m2's slow tech is horrible when you are being thrown around. Once falcon is off the edge, it should be relatively easy to land a kill (like on most characters with bad recovery). This is all about the mind games on both sides...

[Snakebite]

Yeah ive taken an interest with mewtwo as low teir. It seems mewtwo is like a game of chess good mind games(well your pritty much forced to)

Bowser is sorta just a big brute with cheap tricks(not really just dont like him)

falcon verse mewtwo is a hard matchup grabbing works well combined with waving out of sheild and shooting shadow balls putting captain falcon in the position to be grabbed.

Hmmm I really kneed help with this match up actually.


But captain falcons recovery is pritty poor and once he is off his off his off for good. I find captain falcon is one of the easiest to edgeguard with m2.

I actually have a harder time beating links with m2.

[sjiron]

Falcon gives me nightmares >.<

I could use some advice on when the falcon simply starts to dashdance until i make an attack and grabs/pwns in the lag time of that attack, usually i wil use d-tilt when my friend tries it but sometimes falcon dashdances so fast he can get between it :( I can beat all his chars with m2 xept his falcon :ohwell: .
(btw his main is fox always fun to combo him with m2 :) )

[MookieRah]

The trick to Falcon is grabs and nair. If the Falcon player is about to do a knee or a dair then you can intercept with a nair. Also, after you take a hit and are knocked back a good bit, DJC and fastfall a nair, that will prevent most of CF's follow ups. Dtilts to double fairs (and at the right percent quadrouple fairs) work well and it is retarded easy to edgeguard him. Either bair or dair, although it's real easy to spike a CF. Some of the better CF's can meteor cancel though, so be on the lookout for that and adjust accordingly.

Watch out for uairs and nairs from Falcon though, and don't go to the sky if you aren't intercepting one of his slower attacks. Remember, a knee can kill Mewtwo really early so you have to play it safe. Go for guaranteed attacks in the air and stick to the ground when in doubt.


I actually have a harder time beating links with m2.

Links are freaking EASY for Mewtwo yo! One dtilt means they are ****ed up. You can seriously dtilt a Link about 3 times and quad fair his ***. It's really really bad for the Link. There is only one Link on this earth that I fear and that is SSJ4Ricky, and he is pretty much the only Link out there that has crazy extensive anti-Mewtwo knowledge with his Link. Pretty much the only thing Link has on Mewtwo is his grab to uptilts/upair. That is about it. You can get around his aerials and intercept his fairs, and he just gets raped by tilts and his projectiles really don't pose much of a threat. It's easy to powershield the rang and he is possibly the easiest person for Mewtwo to combo in the game (Marth might be easier to combo, but it is WAY WAY WAY easier for Mewtwo to get inside Link to do a combo).

[AngeloBangelo]

Watch the match between DBR with Mewtwo vs Falcon... It's a very good game. I think Mewtwo actually wins! The Falcon was less than par though. :(

[MookieRah]

Pffssshhh, I am gonna make some new vids of Moogle and I. I guarantee that Moogle's Falcon is definitely not "less than par" and I can stand on even ground against him with my Mewtwo.

[Edit]
Mewtwo vids aren't worth watching unless the opponent is actually good, otherwise it doesn't ****in matter, lol. Skill > tiers = duh.

[Snakebite]

Ive actually seen an improvement in my m2 game, marths and roys are no trouble, captain falcon is problem matic(well Of course) I might actually consider maining mewtwo because he does pritty well. Ive actually started to win more matches with him than that of my marth.

I'M having alot of close matches againt jiggly puff in which I just lose Slighty. Up throw kills jiggs. I'm wondering good ways in which to aproach a jiggs and pritty much take the win. wall of pain crap.

[MookieRah]

God, I hate the Jiggs matchup. Not that it is too horrible, but it's just so draining. Pretty much, the way I play against Jiggs is ultra defensive. You can't do much about WOP so you gotta wait untill the player does something stupid (like throwing out a pound for absolutely no reason) and then you take advantage of it. Upthrow kills early and so does fair, although it's easier to get off a fair cause it's *usually* hard to grab a good jiggs. Watch out in the air, she has you beat in priority. Don't go for all the usual nair tricks unless you can come in from under her, or if she is knocked on top of a platform. Upairs, do well, and tilts work wonders. Bair does good as long as you keep it spaced.

[Snakebite]

It also looks extremely boring to what you are restricted to, best level for this matchup I've found is lylat systems this is proberly where I've had the most luck with the matchup.

[MookieRah]

If you are refering to Corneria, then yeah, that is a pretty good stage, although it is kinda a double edge sword. Jiggs can get some crazy easy bair kills on you off the sides, so you would have to be careful while you are close to them. Jiggs on the other hand, cannot hide from the really quick and easy kills off the top.

[Snakebite]

seriously though m2 not that bad.
Not as bad as peops make him out to be. How is your m2 comming along Mookie I hear alot about you over in australia.

I'm ussualy the one asking about ya. Seriously I want to get serious about m2 but I always get sidetracked by negative comments and verbal comments about him.

[snes101]

I would be a serious M2 player, but his movement and play style doesn't suit me. Shame, cause Mewtwo has so much potential in my opinion. :(

["its a me! marrriiiooo!"]

I think all of you are completly wrong. M2 is Teh Pwnerage of all ssbm characters. If i ever verse any of you in a match I will surely kick your bottoms in so hard that they go up towards your head.

I am Teh King of M2.

[MookieRah]

I think all of you are completly wrong. M2 is Teh Pwnerage of all ssbm characters. If i ever verse any of you in a match I will surely kick your bottoms in so hard that they go up towards your head.

I am Teh King of M2.


Sure you are "its a me! marrriiiooo!" >_>.

N00bs are crazy peepz.

How is your m2 comming along Mookie I hear alot about you over in australia.


Yayz. Word of my exploits have crossed the great expanse of the earth! Actually, it's prolly cause I had a really close matches with Kupo's fox and falco, cause she came to Smash Aid 5, but still, it freakin rulez.


Actually though, I am not playing Mewtwo much right now, he is put on the back burner while I am working up other characters. However; I am still improving with him a good bit, because I am learning new things I can exploit while using other characters that has transfered over to Mewtwo. So yeah, my Mewtwo is still shaping up, but I don't expect that I will be able to do well at a tournament with *just* Mewtwo.

While I am on that note, why are people hating on the fact that I publically stated that Mewtwo doesn't have what it takes to beat the top players with the top characters? I forget which thread it was, but peepz were treating me like a sell out cause I was picking up more characters. Hell, I am not dropping Mewtwo and going Fox only or some ****. Mewtwo is and always will be one of my top dudes in my arsenal, I will just use him for matchups that are better suited to him instead of retardedly going against someone who absolutely rapes him to death.

seriously though m2 not that bad.

Yup, he isn't nearly as bad as people make out. He has a lot going for him, as long as you watch out for his counters.

[AngeloBangelo]

When are you going to release those vids?

Also, have you seen the ytmnd of Falcon?

[Snakebite]

Kupo yep i'll be versing her at seat this year, the scene as it is over here in australia has improved dramatically. Though it seems to be all peach and fox these days. Man i've only been playing for round 5 months(real hardcore trying to make up for lost ground) and I bettya seat will attract more peops and create interest in smash.

Ahh well i'm happy your still playing m2 thats good to hear, and playing him in proper sense aswell.
And you post on the smashboards and you play m2(famous already in my books)

Tournerments are fun But I prefer friendly meets.

I think sometimes people get influenced to harcore by the teir list so in general who really cares what sorta opinion they decide to think up.

atm its a hard struggle between marth, ice climbers(get denied alot), m2(never tried him in a tournerment).

Who does mewtwo match up well against, I'm thinking bowser, link zelda, maybe marth?

[sjiron]

The trick to Falcon is grabs and nair. If the Falcon player is about to do a knee or a dair then you can intercept with a nair. Also, after you take a hit and are knocked back a good bit, DJC and fastfall a nair, that will prevent most of CF's follow ups. Dtilts to double fairs (and at the right percent quadrouple fairs) work well and it is retarded easy to edgeguard him. Either bair or dair, although it's real easy to spike a CF. Some of the better CF's can meteor cancel though, so be on the lookout for that and adjust accordingly.

Watch out for uairs and nairs from Falcon though, and don't go to the sky if you aren't intercepting one of his slower attacks. Remember, a knee can kill Mewtwo really early so you have to play it safe. Go for guaranteed attacks in the air and stick to the ground when in doubt.



Links are freaking EASY for Mewtwo yo! One dtilt means they are ****ed up. You can seriously dtilt a Link about 3 times and quad fair his ***. It's really really bad for the Link. There is only one Link on this earth that I fear and that is SSJ4Ricky, and he is pretty much the only Link out there that has crazy extensive anti-Mewtwo knowledge with his Link. Pretty much the only thing Link has on Mewtwo is his grab to uptilts/upair. That is about it. You can get around his aerials and intercept his fairs, and he just gets raped by tilts and his projectiles really don't pose much of a threat. It's easy to powershield the rang and he is possibly the easiest person for Mewtwo to combo in the game (Marth might be easier to combo, but it is WAY WAY WAY easier for Mewtwo to get inside Link to do a combo).

thanks, il try that, usually have most problems with is uair, when he manages to get below
me its hard to get back on the ground because he runs faster then i teleport/DI :)
and that means when i get my landing lag its a grab and another combo on me :(

[MookieRah]

Also, have you seen the ytmnd of Falcon?

If it is the same as my sig, but just a higher quality + music then I made that YTMND. I am glad to see a board member who knows of the greatness of ytmnd though.

Who does mewtwo match up well against, I'm thinking bowser, link zelda, maybe marth?

Mewtwo counters Bowser, Link, and Pika. Link is a weird case, cause the match becomes a lot more even if the Link knows how to fight the Mewtwo, but seriously the only Link that knows how to defeat M2 is pretty much SSJ4Ricky. So don't use Mewtwo to counter him, lol.

Some relatively even matchups for him are Ness, Roy, Pichu, Zelda, and maybe Yoshi. I really don't have much Yoshi experience, but I played Aho's and it was a really close match. I didn't notice anything he could exploit that would rape Mewtwo, or vice versa, so I will just say the matchup is even given my current knowledge, although that might change in the future.


Some slightly uneven matchups for Mewtwo are Fox, Falco, Mario, Dr. Mario, Jiggs, Kirby, Captain Falcon, and Young Link.

Bad matchups for Mewtwo are Ganon, Marth, Sheik, Peach, G&W, Donkey Kong, and Luigi.

Worst matchup in the game = Samus. DO NOT FIGHT A GOOD SAMUS WITH MEWTWO. She will destroy you, hardcore style. Now if they are a crappy Samus, then it's not so bad.

For the most part the slightly uneven matchups aren't so bad, you just have to know how to play against them properly and you can generally manage. They still have the edge, but then again you will probably have some novelty factor helping you out.

As far as bad matchups go, they are winnable, but it's usually really rough. Truth be told, I would put Marth inbetween slightly uneven and bad, because if Mewtwo can get inside Marth he can totally **** him up hardcore. Generally the match outcome is kinda random, and it depends if you are able to get inside or not. It's generally bad enough to put Marth into the bad matchup category though.

[Umbreon]

I would rather fight a marth than a good Ness

I'd rather quit smash than try to face a clone of me playing Zelda.

[MookieRah]

Meh, Zelda's are all kinda predictable. I mean, the focus of her game is her fair/bair, and all you have to do is be very careful against it. I haven't seen you play Zelda, and I haven't seen DOH since MOAST (I hear he got a lot lot better since then too) so I can't completely know that for sure, but I don't see it making Zelda much harder for Mewtwo. Besides, there aren't many good Zelda players, so for the most part it won't matter if Zelda at her max would be a bad matchup for Mewtwo.

As far as Ness goes, I have yet to run into one who is as good as Scrib, one of my crew mates. Every other Ness I saw/played at a tourny was a lot flashier than Scrib, but Srib's no nonsense Ness beatdown/rundown game was way more efficient and overall just better.

[AngeloBangelo]

YTMND is teh pwnagez0rz.
Yeah, the YMTND is basically just your sig with the F-Zero theme song.

[Snakebite]

Zelda is proberly one of the easiest free grabs for mewtwo.
Ahhh Ive only played a average zelda.
I love pulling out mewtwo on a zelda and taking full advantage of their foot spamage. I want to play a good ness, or a good zelda they dont excist from where I come it's all this top teir crap instead.

[grayfox]

haha. You should travel to where there is variety! Europe has quite a nice mix of characters. Most of the UK scene uses lower tier infact which is pretty cool. Top tier players use the top tiers of course. I use Samus when competing when M2 can't cut it.

[MookieRah]

Heh, I am lucky the Tupeloopas have crazy low-tier variety. In our ranks is the best Ness I have ever fought against, the 2nd best Pichu I have ever played (the best being SSJ4Ricky), one of the better Young Link's I have played (he doesn't spam/camp like the current trend of YLs either), myself with my Mewtwo, and a decent everything else.

[Snakebite]

Anyhow I plan to try to make some vids this year(using mewtwo). To get a fair idea on what areas I should improve in. My edge guarding is good(b airs are god edge guard) my combos are comming along.

My most practiced matchup with m2 is marth. So I'll try to get a vid of me versing a decent marth and you guys can sit back and criticise. No one plays low teir so I'd proberly get owned versing low teir due to experience.

You guys can criticise hardcore style because I do plan to put it on the boards.

[SmashLegend]

I use m2 on the side sometimes and i seem to have an easier time against mario dont ask why its just not that hard

[Umbreon]

I played wes this weekend, that was fun.

and PC chris and bob bang, top falcon players from north EC.

and a bunch of sheiks.

I went about even with them, except the sheiks. I beat the sheiks./

PC chris has a sweet mewtwo too.

[Rayzor X]

:: quote ::

Mewtwo counters Bowser, Link, and Pika.

Some slightly uneven matchups for Mewtwo are Fox, Falco, Mario, Dr. Mario, Jiggs, Kirby, Captain Falcon, and Young Link.

Bad matchups for Mewtwo are Ganon, Marth, Sheik, Peach, G&W, Donkey Kong, and Luigi.

Worst matchup in the game = Samus.

:: end quote ::

I played against my friend today who was samus, and he kicked my *** as usual. Link does ok against him though, but I did notice that the more I faced him when he was DK it was getting worse. DK's reach is crazy against Mewtwo. Couldn't do any of my normal grabs. I'm interested in how Mewtwo counters pika though. Cuz my friend also plays a mean pikachu, and I generally have hard time coping. He tends to do a lot of aerial attacks and most definately spams on the neutral B (shock?) though.

[MookieRah]

Hmmm. Well there are a lot of reasons why I consider Mewtwo a Pika counter.

Mewtwo outranges Pika. Tilts rip em up.

Pika is comboed very very easily. That in itself is the main reason why Mewtwo is capable of dispatching them with ease.

Pika is very succeptable to Mewtwo's neutral air, which can pretty much shut down most of Pika's air game.

Upthrow. Nuff said.

That's mainly it. I will admit that it is possible he isn't a counter, because I haven't ran into a Pika that has put up much of a challenge *shrug*, but I haven't played any of the really notable Pika's either. I can tell you for certain that the advantage is DEFINITELY on Mewtwo's side though, perhaps not counter worthy, but I don't have any evidence that proves to me otherwise.

Outside of Pika's upsmash, he doesn't really have anything that really beats up Mewtwo. His downsmash is annoying, and so are jolts, but meh, nothing really note worthy. He has a good recovery, but an upthrow will take him out, and Pika isn't very hard to grab.

Pichu is a harder matchup for Mewtwo than Pika though. His size, weight, and speed make it harder to string combos together, as opposed to Pika that is rather easily comboed. , but even Pichu is at a slight disadvantage in this matchup.

[Snakebite]

Whats the odds with M2 verse ice climbers. It's one of those rare matches that I dont hear much from.
Or is it auto assumption that ice climbers just own m2.

A litte run down of what I found during my matches.
I find m2 has a relatively easy time with combos and can seperate them with ease.
So many forward airs and just one down tilt can bring pain. Grabing Ice climbers can be a pain if nana decides to throw a down smash or something. Edge guarding them seems easy.

I also tend to start to use forward smash and down smash alot more it seems to be quite effective because Of ice climbers lagy sheilding and the fact that they can be a big target at times.

I seem to be getting better and better with this . It's ussualy close.
I find being extremely carefull and thinking about when to go offensive and defensive helps.
But It seems once you get in close range mt has a relatively good time.............

Anyhow how do you guys find you go against ice climbers.

[Rayzor X]

Dash A does pretty well against ice climbers. You're right with the Fsmash and Dsmash though, they 're easy enough on a bigger target. I tend to do a lot of Dtilts and Nairs on them to speed up the damage though.

[MookieRah]

Backthrow messes them up and seperates them real easy. During the backthrow animation anyone who hits the character being thrown gets knocked back. This will prevent one of those *******s from hitting you out of your throws and will allow you to go for grabs against the ICs. After you seperate them, take Nana out. She is stupid so you can just bair her across the stage and spike her and ****. 2 ICs rape Mewtwo, 1 IC gets raped by Mewtwo.

Dtilts are really really good against them. It's a pretty safe move and it cancels out their dreaded dsmash. You can usually dtlt them 2-3 times followed by a fair or grab if you can't safely reach them with a fair. The other tilts work well also. Ftilt is good for seperating them when they are at higher percents and utilt can juggle them a bit and set up for easy combos.