Ganondorf's limitations

[DarkDaej]

Hey everyone, I think I need to introduce myself first :) Dark Daej, Ganondorf player.

I've been playing smash since sept 2002, and most of that time, i played with Ganondorf. I've transformed Ganondorf into an extremely agile and relatively quick fighter(thank god for dodging, lol) but I think i've tapped the maximum of Ganondorf's abilities. I guess I'm just asking if any of you people are having difficulty improving after reaching a certain level.

I USED to consider myself invincible at smash, until I found those limitations, and lately, they're all I see(and it has affected my gaming, I'm sure of it :) )

If anyone has tips on how to improve, they'll be welcome

[Vall3y]

you can try mastering more adanced moves such as pivoting ledge dashing etc, and play better players than you.

[PhoenyxFyre]

how about wavedashing, l-cancelling and shfflc?

[Emblem Lord]

Check out the "Triforce of power" vid by Thomas Tipman. After watching that ask yourself if you can still see Ganondorfs limitations.

[AngeloBangelo]

Ledgedashing, wavedashing, and SHFFLing flawless are pretty important for Ganondorf. Make sure you have them down reasonably well.

[DarkDaej]

I've got most of it down already, no doubts there, the problem is the availability of other players, apparently, where I live(quebec), Nintendo barely even exists... So players are hard to find, but I got a few to compete around with... I just wish a tournament would happen around here, LOL

[DarkDaej]

I guess my big problem would be with controlling reflex-action, though, can anyone link me to the video of the" triforce of power?"

[Vall3y]

you can get it through the smash hub, look for the thread in the meele discussion (its sticky)

[Mr. Ganondorf]

I've seen the Triforce of Power vid, and it roxxorz my boxxorz great job Tipman, but I still agree on Ganon's limitations. It seems like a ganon could ever touch Ken's Marth or a great Fox. I'm sure there are videos that prove me wrong (at least about Fox cuz he is chain grabbed so easily). All I'm saying is I can ledge dash 90% of the time and I love WD'ing and aerial WD'ing but Ganon is so tall and so slow and he just seems perfectly comboed by the better characters. I've been a dedicated Ganon player since smash came out but I've noticed a trend, everytime my Ganon can't beat a Marth, or a Peach (sadly it's true) or a Fox or a Samus, I switch to Doc and do much better. I should be Dr. Ganondorf, lol.

[Dark Lord Uraj]

That doesn't mean Ganon is worse: it means you're not trying hard enough.

The only limitation on any character is the player. If a player dedicates themselves to mastering every possible aspect of the game, every character can (in theory) take on any others.

Arguing this point, of course, would be someone saying Bowser could never beat a good Marth. Or...maybe the Bowser player isn't good enough as Bowser? Who knows? Nobody has ever tried mastering Bowser to that point (though I train as Bowser constantly, and hope to reach a higher level of Bowser someday)

As for Ganondorf, I can keep up with my friend's (Ender's) Fox fairly well nowadays, thanks a bundle to the training I got from the godsend of Ganon vids, "ToP". I will continue playing until I can match both Ender and Simna in one on ones. Watch out, Green Oaks Havoc Tourney, Uraj is on his way!

PS- Ganondorf PWNS pawns.

[Mr. Ganondorf]

I can agree with that, maybe I just thought I was a Ganon player and he turned out not to be my perfect character.

[Dawg]

triforce of power is great as it does show all those technical aspects of ganon, but ganon definetely has limitations, even thomas tipman would tell you that. ganon is really great for the most part, but he will constantly be fighting an uphill battle against characters like fox, falco, and shiek. Ganon does pretty well against slower characters like marth and peach, who depend more on range and/or priority(ganon usually has more), if im correct eddie was one of the only people who ever beat ken in a money match

so ganon is very good in general, however he just has REALLY bad matchups with fox/falco/shiek and maybe some others im forgetting, this is worsened by the fact that everyone either plays these characters, or can play them well enough to pull them out in a tourny and have a decent chance of beating your ganon :cry:

i always feel really bad playing falco against ganon players

[Peaches]

Ganon's biggest limitaion is he up B. Seriously, the thing is hard as hell to sweet spot, and if you do it's easy as crap to edgehog. If you don't sweetspot then they can easily hit you out of it. Dodging usually works better if you ask me. However, once he getsonto a ledge he has more options than most people. His great infinite stall and ledghopped upairs can get you on most of the time.

[FastFox]

This probably sounds crazy, but the only way to get better is to get the crap pwned out of you. Thats how I learned.

[Thomas Tipman]

This probably sounds crazy, but the only way to get better is to get the crap pwned out of you. Thats how I learned.
yeah that helps alot, but getting uber raped as a n00b can just confuse you if you dont understand basic concepts like Lcanceling and WDing.

dawg: falco vs ganon can go both ways, i working on that match up (seeing as i always get knocked out of tourneys cause of them :mad: ) all i know is once i get my Mr.Reflecto skillz back its bird season bi.tch! :uzi: :083: :rocket: also reverse uair feels too sexy on falco since all you need is 2 of those bad boys and hes out for the count.

ganon has limits like any other char but not as bad as you guys make it out to be (sheik is a 1337 counter, that one is just broken).

[Rip]

I've got most of it down already, no doubts there, the problem is the availability of other players, apparently, where I live(quebec), Nintendo barely even exists... So players are hard to find, but I got a few to compete around with... I just wish a tournament would happen around here, LOL
t'habites ou juste comme ca?

[Ky Kiske]

Ganondorf vs Sheik is a retarded matchup. You can be chain thrown until like 80%+. I can actually defeat my friends Samus fairly reliably with Ganondorf but once I'm off the edge I'm guaranteed not to come back. Ganondorf has some pretty good stuff against Falco but he gets locked down pretty easily because of SHL and pillar.

[Coen]

Recovering with Ganondorf is indeed quite tricky, but don't forget Ganondorf has Down-B as a recovery move since he can jump again after it.

[Windytrail]

Ganondorf is a wicked character .. in fact he is my favorite ...but his main weakness is young link..UH

[damienstryker]

Ganon has been my number 1 character since... I dunno... a while. I've been getting repeatedly beaten by friend's Falco... Ganon has the ability to be faster... but I'm guessing that I'm like... sluggish with one of the slowest natural characters in the game... Someone mentioned something about a "Triforce of Power" vid... I haven't seen it yet... and I'll see it sometime after this post.

I aspire to get better and I'm looking for advice. Look for my face here, frequently and often... later!

[FireEmblem81387]

If I had some tips to improve as Ganondorf, I'd say use other techniques, like side-dodging, wave-dashing, ledge attacks, etc. What i'd also do is to not lose your cool. Once you begin being frustrated, it's over.

By the way, I've been learning that the Vid "Triforce of Power" seems to be a big help for Gannondorf players. I'd do that, also. Get whatever help you can get.

[WhatIsFear]

i think that once you get your l cancels down, and ledge dashing/ wavedashing, it really comes down to knowing your character matchups. besides being easy to edgeguard, ganon racks up massive damage once he gets grabbed. particularly by fox and shiek.. its either up airs or chain throwing from there. so throwing the jab at the right time would probably be a nice reflex to pick up, cause ganons spot dodge is horrible.

ganon has to play a near perfect game to win, while other characters can spare a few mistakes.. matches against falco can go either way like tipman said, but against fox and shiek you need to know exactly what your doing. if you accept the uphill battle, ganon is a great character :]

[damienstryker]

Do you guys think that it is possible to be a great Ganondorf player without being able to L cancel, wavedash, or outcancel?

[dmac]

im not sure what outcancelling is, but hell no as a response to the other two.

[SmashMac]

Mr. Ganondorf, I happen to be a Doc. Player rolling by this thread. I'd like to point out that in my past matches against some of the best here in Florida, I've come to conclude that Doc. has a lot in common with Ganondorf. Whether it's the u-air's that look the same and have the same function or the fair that have pretty much the same effect, they are very much in common. I'd like to say that Ganondorf is a stronger and uglier Doc., just not quite as small o.o.

The purpose of me telling you this is that that's why you've been able to pick up Doc. and do better with him. He's a bit more agile o.o, and he's a very similar character to pick up after years worth of practicing with Ganondorf.

[Sadaharu Inui]

Do you guys think that it is possible to be a great Ganondorf player without being able to L cancel, wavedash, or outcancel?

I own people really easily without wavedashing or outcanceling.

But I DO L cancel. :D

[Uno]

If you cant Lcancel or WD dont deny them as a useful techniques. (not saying that you were)
Just get good at them or at least understand them.

[Vall3y]

umm, i see ganon players do fine without wd'ing. eddy for example wd's rarely and does great
ofcourse if you wavedash it will help your game but its not a must know i guess
l-cancel on the other hand, is extremly important. ganon is so punishble without it.
and outcanceling.. umm..? o0

[AngeloBangelo]

Actually Eddie does wavedash quite often. He uses it for spacing to land his Fairs correctly. Watch the "first match of the night" vs Luke. Lots of WDing, and flawless L-canceling going on in that game.

[Thomas Tipman]

hahaha, flawless lcanceling sounds funny (i mean once you get it down you basically lcancel flawlessly everytime except with links dair i swear that thing messes me up soo much i get frustrated like hell)).

[AngeloBangelo]

Maybe for Ganondorf. As Falcon I still miss my Dair L-cancels once in a while. The timing just seems messed up.

[Thomas Tipman]

yeah i know what you mean, i used to get it with ganon but its something i got used to. that extra 10 frames of lag really make a difference.

[AngeloBangelo]

No kidding. I can NEVER get used to it! Maybe this is worth mentioning in my guide if I haven't done so already... Well, it's 11 PM here so... This might be a project for another day.

[damienstryker]

That's cool... My friend, TJ and his falco are always evading my manuvers... I was wondering if I was doing something wrong... I heard that there are characters that people should avoid when using Ganon... I think Fox was one... are there others... and are there better ways to get around them using Ganon?