When to spike

[BUHO]

Pika's uair tailspike can turn a battle, and is one of the more easily accomplished spikes if you have proper experience. With the proper setup, you can be deadly, thus saving you a lot of hardship involved with typical combat. However, this setup is sometimes thwarted merely by an unfortunate character matchup.

In particular I see the links and peach to be tough because of their recovery tactics. the links have large attack range on their recoveries... with more priority than pika, meaning you don't want to be edgeguarding once they initiate the upb. your only chance to spike is through sending them far enough off the stage to catch them before they're in proper range to start recovering. The same applies to peach; the attack range is not as much of a problem, its the invincible priority of the upb and the maneuvorability of floating (which allows aerials to be a threat as well). My big issue is that they are tough struggles in ground and air combat as well, and makes spiking them all the more desirable.

With other matchups it's just worthless to try and spike as an edgeguard... due to their recovery range. pikachu is better edgeguarded with thunder due to the upb hitbox. Mewtwo and Zelda can probably just recover right out of range, and it'd back to ground tactics.

What do you think on this? Are there better means for quick kills?

[JayJay]

Spiking works great on certain characters without the best recovery.
In this case you were talking about Link and Peach.
"your only chance to spike is through sending them far enough off the stage to catch them before they're in proper range to start recovering."
In this situation, I would'nt go for a spike. It's very effective to jump out at them and use Dair. Even if Peach hits you too, a trade here is in your best interest.

[BUHO]

Dair is a little trickier to time, but I guess i should try it more often off the stage. However, I've had enough practice against peach to pull off some spikes at very low percents so I don't think I should give it up completely.

[melee4life]

i think the u-air is best for picking away at percents. you can somtimes combo 3 or 4 in a row. For edgegaurding, the u-air is usefull when you hit your opponent at their feet b/c this will send them straight down. I also find the d-air off the edge tricky, please elaborate.

[BUHO]

a stciked dair will send you farther away from the stage than a uair, but of course is still recoverable. The tricky part is getting the distance right in conjunction with starting the attack so that in mid animation you can hit your opponent, and in the desired direction. All it takes is practice.

[RaptorHawk]

hmmm...I personally do not recomend using Dair for edgeguarding...at high percentages it works but your better off using Nair anyways, Nair has basically no start up lag so it makes hitting your opponent while they are off the stage much easier and it still gets the job done, with the Dair you have to time it because of its startup lag and good players can generally see this move coming.

At low percentages Dair isnt the best choice either because the nockback isnt usually enough to finish them, your better off jumping after them and going for a tail spike. If you hit them but dont spike them they are usually stunned long enough for you to make it back to ground to edgeguard some more.

Back to the original post. This is actually one of my favorite times to use the tail spike, i have gotten really low percentage kills using this. Ive even gotten kills from my opponent having full health just by backthrowing off the edge and tail spiking.

Now time to try and explain one of the situational tail spikes....When using dashdancing and wavedashing to confuse my opponent, if I see them jump and Im close enough I will use the tail spike(if they do a short hop i wont go for the spike because you wont be able to sweetspot it so they actually get spiked)...dont know how many people realise this but its actually possible to tail spike somebody from about a third of Final destination.

[N64]

Well, one of the nice things about the pika vs. peach matchup is that you actually have the opportunity to go out and attack peach while she's off the edge. For most characters, peach can simply float at a safe distance until the opposing character is forced to return to the stage, but pika can chase peach far off of the stage and still be able to recover with his upB's great range. If possible, a uair spike off the edge against peach is deadly, as her vertical recovery is lacking. Nair and dair can be DI'ed upwards, allowing peach to upB and float back to the stage. She still has to deal with pika's edge-guarding, but at least she has a chance to return. Uair spike followed by edgehog gives her much less opportunity to return. If i'm edge-hogging vs a peach (or most characters for that matter) they'll usually try to land on the stage as opposed to trying to knock me off the ledge and take it themselves. In either situation, though, I find that you can usually drop from the ledge right before they reach you, jump and do a uair reverse-spike, then catch the ledge again. The timing and positioning of this can be quite difficult (I have less success with it than i'd like) but it will kill most characters if pulled off.

Edgeguarding versus a link, i usually just pester him with jolts, which work fairly well to eat his second jump and hookshot recovery attempts, and then fsmash the edge when he upBs.

[BUHO]

i like the idea of a reverse tail spike from the edge, but i dont think it would work against peach, a smart one will always drop down for the upb recovery or float well above the edge.

[melee4life]

the drop down u-air spike works well. I feel like i have perfected it, my crew i play with have stopped trying to attack me while i hang b/c everytime they do they get u-air and edgeguarded to death. I feel like that i one of pika's strength's that should definitely be learned and exploited

[RaptorHawk]

i like the idea of a reverse tail spike from the edge, but i dont think it would work against peach, a smart one will always drop down for the upb recovery or float well above the edge.

The reverse tail spike is good, but BUHO is right a smart one will get around it.

[JayJay]

RaptorHawk, I have to disagree, Dair is very useful for edgeguarding. Of course like all edgeguarding attempts there are situations where it is not the best choise. At Mid to High percents you really are'nt better off using Nair. Dair is a certain kill if you connect even at middle percents. Using it while they are pretty far out from the stage and just starting their recovery is the best time. Even if they hit you too, trading just gives you a few %, and kills them. Nair isn't garunteed to kill, and they can see that coming too. So imo Dair > Nair for edgeguarding. But you're right that it's not very useful when their at low %. In that case I would go for spike or jolt or whatever.

[pictish freak]

Easiest way to spike - hang on the edge, react/predict the recovery, and reverse tailspike there. They die.

[EnigmaticCam]

Explain to me the reverse tail-spike again? Not sure I quite understand it.

[pictish freak]

It's very weird. You gotta get a feel for it, sorta. Hit them just right with the tailspike and they'll go behind you instead of forward. Not easy to explain, so just try it on a jumping computer in training maybe?

[Zanguzen]

use mindgames

[BUHO]

thanks zang... always with the revelations... you've changed the way smash will be played forever.

[Your_Rival]

This sounds fun, have to try that reversal. Anyway, I think that the dair isn't the best. Definately like the uair. I have a question though. Does anyone else find the person flying anywhich way with the uair? I mean it spikes a lot, but then a lot of times it sends them whereever. Is there a defined spot in the animation to hit them?

[EnigmaticCam]

You want to hit them on the very bottom of their feet. Anywhere else risks sending them back towards the stage, which I seem to do a lot.

[N64]

The uair is weird. It's consistent, but quite awkward. I'm still trying to figure out its exact properties, but it's probably best to just get a good feel for it through tons of practice.

As enigmatic said, hitting them on the feet (or whatever part of their body happens to be the lowest when you hit them) is best for spiking & reverse spiking, in my experience. Reverse spikes seem to happen at the very tip, while spikes can happen with further-inward hits. If you hit too far in (or too late in the tail's swing) it'll pop them slightly up and mostly back. Hitting them too early in the tail's swing pops them upwards (and whichever way they DI).

[Your_Rival]

That makes sense. I usually can spike my friend who plays Peach, and I guess it's because he hovers so high that I do hit his feet. Thanks a lot.

[Bumpma]

Spiking peach is very fun, especially on low levels (greatfox, brimstar, etc).

I also like juggling when I get the chance to. Up air juggling can be humorous and effective. Its possible to set up a juggle to a spike if you time your second jump perfectly.