how can ganon win against fox

[WhatIsFear]

well i dont know about you guys, but when this matchup comes up it just causes me all sorts of problems. foxes horizontal rush is hard to overcome, and his waveshine makes problems even worse.

i tried to shield grab his first initial hit before the rush, but he always seems to be able to roll away before i finish the grab. once i get hit once/make a mistake, im pretty much screwed. my whole gameplan changes cause the whole time im trying to avoid this rush.

one move i noticed that can stop a fox rush, is a ground wizards foot. sure the move lags but if it connects, any kind of rush will be put to a halt. since most fox players make speed the main part of their game, the slowness/range of the foot is kinda deceptive and has a greater chance of connecting.

as for my forward airs, i got those shield grabbed, but maybe i need better placement. b airs i got dash attacked. i do L cancel and fast fall, yet even then i get shield grabbed sometimes.

if anyone has some feedback or suggestions on this matchup, please share your wisdom :] the last thing i want to do is have to choose marth to beat fox -_-

[TestRider]

I wrote an answer to this exact same question like a year or so ago in Shin's topic, but obviously by now it is somewhat outdated. This is the hardest matchup for Ganondorf, or maybe second after Sheik. Basically it's impossible to keep up with Fox's speed when playing as Ganondorf, so you cannot hope to go toe-to-toe with him. You will be throwing less attacks his way, so they need to be more precise and well-timed. Moves which you can throw without any risk of getting raped are ground neutral A, forward tilts, forward airs, back airs and up airs (unless you mess up your L-cancelling). Down air is the best punisher you have when he does a mistake, and Gerudo Dragon and Wizard's foot are nice to mess up with his mind a bit. Down throws are usually more useful than up thows. When you get him off the edge, try to force him to come above the edge and nail him with a reverse up air or a back air. It is an horrible matchup for Ganondorf as far as I have seen, but it's still entirely feasible, and it makes you feel much faster when you play against slower characters like Link or Samus.

[WhatIsFear]

haha yeah i tried looking through all the ganon posts before i asked this question, but i guess i must have overlooked that topic.

going on to some of the things you said, yeah ganon cant toe to toe combat with fox, and thats probably one of my mistakes. i try to play/keep up with the speed fox sets, but if i were to slow it down i would probably have more of a chance. after the down throw i usually jab/or side b, but the side b usually misses because of him rolling out. grabbing him is rare enough anyways, so im just happy i even grabbed.

and i think it goes fox, peach, shiek for hardest matchups. or rather, thats been from my experience

thanks for the input, any other responses are welcome : )

[Kaotical]

For the record, Sheik is the hardest match-up for Ganondorf and that's final.

Anyways, Fox isn't as hard to beat as you're making it sound. TestRider is right about not going face to face with Fox. For edge-guarding, reverse u-air is a good tactic considering it should be able to stop sweet-spotting, or if you can't do that just do a low-angled f-tilt and that will stop Fox from coming back for sure. Tilts work very well if you anticipate Fox coming in at the right moment. It doesn't take much to KO Fox with Ganon (duh), and it will only take a couple of hits, so you really have to be patient. Put it into your opponent's mind that if they come in they're getting punished. That should back them off a slight bit and make them think a little more thus giving you time to ready yourself for anything Fox may throw at you.

Plus experience always helps. :p

[TestRider]

Actually if Fox sweet-spots the edge, your forward tilt won't hit him, even if aimed downwards. You need to jump out there and intercept him, or at least force him to come above the edge with his third jump by edgehogging him.

[WhatIsFear]

well i knew someone would disagree with the order of hardest matchups, which is why i added "from my experience"

but continuing on from what i gather, tempo will play a key part in how my match goes with fox. just gotta take my time, look for openings. and yeah that sweetspotting fox does is a pain. i usually go down there to try and intercept him, but when the fox is really good, it will most likely be me trying to recover to the stage if i miss hitting him.

some fox guy is coming over today, so ill try and use all this stuff ( harder to do than write -.-) and yeah, im sure even an experienced player has trouble with this matchup, or at least isnt looking foward to it.

[The_Krumber]

hmm..... howabout this:

if he tries to drillshine you, slap
if he tries to nair you, slap
if he tries to dash attack you, slap
if he tries to shine you, slap

slap is your firend :P

anyway, dont ***** the slap, but use it if you KNOW hes going to try to just rush you all over the place. and whatever you do.. DONT GET GRABBED!!!

you WILL eat 4 uairs to the face.. and die

[beefbutcher88]

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the Eddie vs Zel match on Yoshi's Island where Zel waveshined Eddie off the edge 3 times. As a Fox player myself, I know that I'm afraid of the slap, the bair, and the dair. Ganon aerials are on par with much of Fox's airgame. Beware the counterstaging though, because Fox can counterpick way better than viceversa.

[harriettheguy]

at mid percentages easy combos work.

d throw wizards foot.

after this the fox should be around 60 percent. you can chain grab dtrhow until your opponent DI's, but if he DIs in front, wizards foot.

firefox has such a bad start uptime and is easy to edgeguard with bair, but ya gotta jump out and do it in his face.

[AzN_Lep]

Beeftbutcher88: Lamest match ever, lol.
Whatisfear: Dorf CANT beat fox HAHAHA (I'm the guy who used fox to take you outta winners) :chuckle:

But seriously, most of it has already been said, l-cancel into jabs help alot, and his aerials rape. Fox is also pretty easy to Vulture kick once you go thim off the edge.

[SM3EsH]

ganon wins against fox--

[CrimsonSkunk]

Fox's recovery is pretty easy to predict and punish. I would say just try to get him off the edge at around say 40%ish and then reverse Uairs will be your freind.

[CStick]

You just have to know how to fight that matchup. From my experience, Fox can't do much against Ganon's fake Wall of Pain, so try that. Just be careful in this matchup and play defense the most of the time. Also, IMO, Fox and Falco are harder than Shiek for Ganondorf to take on.

[BigDaddyFalcon]

The only thing you can do is pray to God that you are facing a ****ty Fox...

If you are, you have to still edgeguard well, and combo the **** out of him. Range is your friend. In order to have a chance in this matchup you must kill Fox at low %'s since he will combo you (maybe to death).

I don't know, if the Fox isn't that great, there is definitely a chance. But you have to abuse Ganon's range. Don't go Wizard foot happy. If you miss, it's a free up smash. Know when to use it. Harrie's combos sound safe enough.

[dr.d]

for Ganon shiek is the hardest to fight against I should know i used to play as him, but foxes were so easy for me except one my friend Robert. my friends called me the Fox Killer becasue i was able to combo them really easily, plus his wizard foot does a lot of damage also gerudo dragon is able to set up combos either aerial or ground.

[Mew2King]

If there's anything that Eddie taught me at GS2 about winning Ganon Vs Fox it's that you need to make them scared and get in close so they can't laser you much, and KO them at low %s and DI everything perfectly (mostly, upwards) so that you can take double the damage that they take but KO them at a quarter the damage. Fair with Ganon beats anything, and try to trade hits a lot, cuz in cases like that Ganon wins. Try to get them near the edge to KO them with fair at like, 40% + an edgeguard. Also, when you land and he's "all over you" try using Down B (wizard's foot) to **** them up and turn the tide on them or at least stop their train-of-hits.

Once GS2 vids come out you can see Eddie own my Fox badly with Ganon from the tourney (own = 1 stock low %)..... then, I can watch that and see what NOT to do next time ;)

Also, Sheik raaaaaaaaaaaapes Ganon about 1000000000000 times easier than Ganon does on Sheik. After playing Eddie's Ganon and seeing how gay Sheik can be on him, with so little effort needed, I now believe that Sheik Vs Ganon is like, one of the worst matchups in the game (not including low/bottom tier of course).

Edit - Falco Vs Ganon is also really grossly unfair, perhaps even more unfair. Lazers = Gayzers against Ganon.

[Vall3y]

Umm, I find falco hardest match for ganon, but thats just me...
Anyway, you can try to shffl a fair, *he blocks*, you sidestep, *he misses the tilt or whatever he was doing*, and you grab. Worked for me a few times.