Kirby ability Discussion

[Aurora Grid]

Okay, this will be my very first open discussion to something in Melee, but it's a topic that recently sparked my interest while I was playing. Here goes...

We all know that by pressing B you can use Kirby's Inhale attack to swallow an opponent and copy their ability, and by pressing B you can use said ability. Most of us also know that Kirby can lose his ability if he is hit, turning him back into normal Kirby. Well this is what sparked my interest, because while I was playing against my brothers (one as Mr. Game and Watch, the other as Fox), I got shot by Fox's blaster and lost my Game and Watch ability.

Normally this wouldn't surprise me since taking a hit can make you lose your ability, but Fox's blaster has no stun effect and in itself is pretty weak. In the blink of an eye I lost my ability and I couldn't see the star that Kirby normall sheds when he loses an ability (either by taunting or getting hit). I would like to have this as an open discussion to every aspect of Kirby's coping powers, as well as the powers themselves. You can also state your favourite copied abilitie(s) and say why you like that one especially.

I'd like to keep this discussion intelligent and sensible, so try to put some reasoning behind your ideas, opinions and other Melee related things. I'll start things off to get the ball rolling, but I'd be grateful if someone could shed some light on the Kirby losing power phenominon. :)

Of all the powers Kirby can copy I like Samus' power most of all, because it gives you a powerful projectile (which Kirby lacks most of the time). Samus' charge shot is a powerful weapon in its own right, but it can also be used for mind games. If you walk around with a fully charged shot it can intimidate your opponent and make them think twice about attacking you head on. This may give you a precious second or two to formulate a strategy or scare them with an all out charge. :D

I prefer this power over other charged attacks (like DK's Giant Punch and Mewtwo's Shadow Ball) because it is large, powerful and has good range (moreso than DK or Mewtwo's attacks).

[The Cape]

Originally posted by Aurora Grid
Of all the powers Kirby can copy I like Samus' power most of all, because it gives you a powerful projectile (which Kirby lacks most of the time). Samus' charge shot is a powerful weapon in its own right, but it can also be used for mind games. If you walk around with a fully charged shot it can intimidate your opponent and make them think twice about attacking you head on. This may give you a precious second or two to formulate a strategy or scare them with an all out charge. :D

A comment to this. Samus's charge shot, when shot by Kirby on level ground (such as FD) can harm someone hanging on the ledge, or recovering from below. This makes for a very unexpected edgeuard.

[Omnigamer]

Another notable ability is Falco's blaster. The afterlag can be cancelled by landing on the ground much like Falco's SHB. The difference is, Kirby can get two shots off in one shorthop (there are too many frames before being able to fastfall for just spamming one laser, anyway). However, I still don't use it much, as I end up losing concentration as I start lasering and leave myself open. But it's still easy to see what can be beneficial from it... laser an any to stun them and stop an attack just as you fall in with a dsmash or something to that effect. Projectiles in general help kirby just because they allow him ways for a safe escape or a safe(r) approach.

[Aurora Grid]

Thanks for your input guys, copied abilities play a minor role in my Kirby game, but pehaps with a better insight into each one I can make them work for me. Fox's and Falco's abilities are ones I stay away from in general (since in order to get them you need to be fighting Fox or Falco, and they can use the Reflector to counter it), but I like to see which abilities other people like to use. :)

To The Cape: Thanks for that piece of advice on Samu's Charge Shot, I always noticed it fired low to the ground (often in the ground since Kirby's so short), but I never thought of using it that way. Thanks for the idea. :)

To Omnigamer: I appreciate the tips for using Falco's Blaster, but sadly most of the time you won't get to use the Blaster. Since Falco has a reflector he can send most of your lasers back at you, but I guess it can work while he's recovering (unless he's too far out to get back, then you'd only help him recover better).

Keep the ideas and comments coming guys, and if one of you could shed some light on my query about losing an ability to Fox's Blaster I'd be grateful (since it has no stun power I didn't think it could make Kirby lose his ability, but maybe it only counts for damage).

[Omnigamer]

Reflector isn't exactly absolute... I'm sure if I tried to work with the power a little bit, I could find some way to incorperate it into combos, but I'm not exactly a person who goes for copying abilities in my Kirby game. But as for other uses, it would be good for Teams where your opponent isn't necessarily the Falco.

[PXTalon2000]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41017

I would like to amend this guide by suggesting that Zelda's B move may, perhaps, be valuable, as I had certainly underestimated its usefulness for Zelda herself. I would guess that Kirby gets the same invincibility frames (4 - 11).
I'm also guessing that Luigi's fireballs may be better than I'd originally expected, when used with a Fox SHDL timing and DI (the way I later learned to use them with Luigi).

Steal Falco's blasters. Combo him with them. SHDL. Hit him three times before he lands; work it into your mind games. So fun.

I'm hoping to find a reason to start using Kirby again. He's no fun 'cuz all I get to fight is Ganon lately.

I also want to add that I still, in fact, enjoy both Marth and Roy's B moves in matches against those characters, though I still find it difficult to earn the powers themselves... Without rereading the thread I remember there was some criticism in my suggestion of their utility.
And I really need to play around with Peach's B move, to see how good it really is for Kirby. (Or someone else who plays Kirby against Peach, though I can't imagine why anyone would do that.. x.x )

[The Cape]

Originally posted by Omnigamer
Reflector isn't exactly absolute... I'm sure if I tried to work with the power a little bit, I could find some way to incorperate it into combos, but I'm not exactly a person who goes for copying abilities in my Kirby game. But as for other uses, it would be good for Teams where your opponent isn't necessarily the Falco.

The tournament in Texas, by the texas gaming association had a Kirby/Falco team that made it to the finals.

Kirby took Falco's power and laser spammed while Falco went in and did massive damage. Its an interesting combo.

Also, for swallowing people, I mostly like to swallow, then follow up with a U air, or a Bair (depending) and when I get a chance dump the ability.

its a small combo, that usually works.

[Omnigamer]

JF has mentioned comboing into the suck several times... I never felt that the attack was usefull, but I'm willing to experiment with some new stuff now. I might post back with some easy ones if I find them.

[Eric the Lone]

Richard's a good kirby player...but his team got raped for a reason. I can recall two occasions off the top of my head where his blaster spam either saved their opponent or got his partner killed. If anything he should have stolen pills. Slower and less range means you can shoot at your opponent all you want, and if it misses it your teammate could still avoid it.

[Aurora Grid]

Originally posted by Omnigamer
Reflector isn't exactly absolute... I'm sure if I tried to work with the power a little bit, I could find some way to incorperate it into combos, but I'm not exactly a person who goes for copying abilities in my Kirby game. But as for other uses, it would be good for Teams where your opponent isn't necessarily the Falco.

Well it might be more effective in teams when you can take Falco's Blaster and use it on his teammate, but in a 1 on 1 game it isn't so useful. Any Falco worth his salt could deflect the laser unless you someone stunned him with a combo, but I can't think of any other time you'd be able to pull off a good shot.

Originally posted by PXTalon2000
I would like to amend this guide by suggesting that Zelda's B move may, perhaps, be valuable, as I had certainly underestimated its usefulness for Zelda herself. I would guess that Kirby gets the same invincibility frames (4 - 11).
I'm also guessing that Luigi's fireballs may be better than I'd originally expected, when used with a Fox SHDL timing and DI (the way I later learned to use them with Luigi).

Steal Falco's blasters. Combo him with them. SHDL. Hit him three times before he lands; work it into your mind games. So fun.

I'm hoping to find a reason to start using Kirby again. He's no fun 'cuz all I get to fight is Ganon lately.

I also want to add that I still, in fact, enjoy both Marth and Roy's B moves in matches against those characters, though I still find it difficult to earn the powers themselves... Without rereading the thread I remember there was some criticism in my suggestion of their utility.
And I really need to play around with Peach's B move, to see how good it really is for Kirby. (Or someone else who plays Kirby against Peach, though I can't imagine why anyone would do that.. x.x )

Thanks for the link to your guide PXTalon2000, I had fun using Zelda's B move, as it works as a reflector and can be handy for aggressive opponents (since they'll charge you and then you whack Nayru's Love on them :D). Luigi's fireballs are okay, but to get them you'll be fighting Luigi and most of the time his could cancel out yours (unless you're quicker on the draw and hit him when he's running at you or tries for a grab). Kirby has problems against Peach since her aerial ability is perhaps better than his, but you can use her B move to your advantage (not the best counter but still works).

Off topic: I've been working with Pichu lately and I've started to realise his potential. Pichu gets alot of rap about being a cruddy version of Pikachu, but I've found he can be very good when you know how to use him. My brother uses Marth a fair bit and he's good (as good as me or better), and I was able to own him with Pichu (surprised us both). I guess it owes mostly to Pichu's aerial agility (or I just got dead lucky), so I feel Pichu is much better than he's given credit for. Take some time to learn him (use the neutral aerial A alot), and you'll be winning in no time (I play Melee often with my brothers alot and I almost always beat them with Pichu, guess they instantly underestimate him). :D

Back on topic:
Thanks for the Kirby advice and tidbits everyone, my Kirby doesn't do well against my brothers most of the time and I'm trying to improve him (my main reason for this thread is to learn more about Kirby and gets his strengths known to everyone, but I'd also like to improve my own game). Keep 'em coming. :)

[Omnigamer]

Originally posted by Aurora Grid
Well it might be more effective in teams when you can take Falco's Blaster and use it on his teammate, but in a 1 on 1 game it isn't so useful. Any Falco worth his salt could deflect the laser unless you someone stunned him with a combo, but I can't think of any other time you'd be able to pull off a good shot.


In the teams, situation, I was referring more to where your own partner is Falco and TA is on...

And for the most part, reflector is underused by tournament players nowadays for that purpose. Just as shines. Besides, when Falco or Fox has to use it to reflect something, there's an additional 10-20 frames of lag for them before they can do anything to get out of the reflector, leaving more than enough time to get ftilt or dtilt or fair off. Besides, if you shoot the laser high and manage to fastfall it, it should go right over Kirby's head at a reasonable distance. But anyway, my point is that most Falco players would rather rushdown at all times than stop and try to reflect a close laser, assuming Kirby even shoots. You could just fair instead. There's a lot more mind games that have to be considered rather than just practicality.

[Aurora Grid]

Originally posted by Omnigamer
In the teams, situation, I was referring more to where your own partner is Falco and TA is on...

Oh I see now. Yeah that's always an option, but it can be more trouble than it's worth since Falco could hit you with an attack by mistake (it's surprisingly easy to get in eachother's way in a 2 on 2).

And for the most part, reflector is underused by tournament players nowadays for that purpose. Just as shines. Besides, when Falco or Fox has to use it to reflect something, there's an additional 10-20 frames of lag for them before they can do anything to get out of the reflector, leaving more than enough time to get ftilt or dtilt or fair off. Besides, if you shoot the laser high and manage to fastfall it, it should go right over Kirby's head at a reasonable distance. But anyway, my point is that most Falco players would rather rushdown at all times than stop and try to reflect a close laser, assuming Kirby even shoots. You could just fair instead. There's a lot more mind games that have to be considered rather than just practicality.

Well I've never been to any Melee tournaments so I wouldn't know (I went to a Tekken 3 Tournament once but that was ages ago, and I didn't do so well). You've got some good points there since Falco is effective when played offensively, it's not easy for Kirby to have him on the run (since Falco's both stronger and faster than Kirby). :(

[Omnigamer]

Thanks for the Kirby advice and tidbits everyone, my Kirby doesn't do well against my brothers most of the time and I'm trying to improve him (my main reason for this thread is to learn more about Kirby and gets his strengths known to everyone, but I'd also like to improve my own game). Keep 'em coming.

Well, if you're looking for tips for that specific matchup, I can't help you much :-/

I just know that it's pretty annoying when fighting another Kirby because most of Kirby's usual combos don't work on himself, so you're just going for the openings and one-hitters you see. The only thing that I've done in this match that had much effectiveness is chaining several non-sweet-spotted bairs to get the other Kirby in a sort of false WoP situation, but even then it's hard to set up and hard to carry out just right because of Kirby's poor horizontal motion. Otherwise, I'd say stick with the tilts to try and outrange aerials, and get a lot of throws in.

[Sintenal]

just let you guys know

richard and marcus did kirby/falco because they wanted to lose in style

[Cyphus]

man...i so wish you could choose which power u'd take.

Imagine if Kirby sucked up Falco and stole his reflector. Think of possibilities! >:O
mwuahahaha


anywho...i think kirby is pretty good w/ Mario's fireball. He can't really pillrush like doc..so he doesn't get that much use of pills. But he can continually bounce very low to the ground and spam retreating fireballs.
Mainly a great annoy tactic, imo.......yeah, too but mario has a cape.


Is there really any power worth taking in a 1v1 match??? I just get too much use from Inhale to drop-kill people...or at least have it Available at my disposle, making my oponent not edgeguard as good as they want.


I think samus has the best power to take, imo. And i thought samus's charge shot can hit targets who are holding on the ledge, too! <___< guess i'll have to go check. Either way...samus is floaty and tends to be easier to psyche out into a charge shot, than most fast jumpers, so i think its deffinately worth taking.

Outside of that, i'm not so sure.
Nayru's love can be useful...but zelda doesn't need to be close to KO you, when she has the fast FOOT.