Wavedashing Obsolete?

[flagitious]

DJL and DA dash can almost do everything WD can do but faster. The only down side is that they might be harder. Also for just canceling your run, crouch canceling is really fast.

DJL can cancel your shield much faster than wave dashing, and alow you to turn around from a dash much faster also.

For travelling short distances and attacking (usually evade + counter attack) with non, upsmash, dash attack, grab, the DA dash is faster than Wavedashing aswell.

So what purpose does wavedash have left (for peach)? Well with DA dash your character is going to turn around at the end you might not always want this. WD to grab ledge is still useful (although peach floating backward onto it is pretty quick too). If you want to move somewhere fast from your shield WD is still faster than DJL + dash. This is useful for instance if you shield falco's laser and hes jumping at you, you'll want to move asap so his attack wiffs. Or if you block link's boomerang and want to run at him. An instane where I would choose DJL + Dash would be punishing a blocked marth's forward smash that is pretty far away. This way dash attack can be used before he can block.

Idea for throwing turnips far: Dash a little at them, then da dash to cancel and face your back to them, then c stick throw it. Not only do you get to add some distance by running at them but you get to utilize the fact that her back turnip toss goes farther than her forward (thanks for that info btw whoever noticed that first).

Anyways I'm just throwing this stuff out there, I really don't use DA dash yet but on paper WD doesn't seem to have much left. Luckily however smash is far from on paper.

[Pritch]

Could someone please explain to the n00b what DJL and DA dashing are? I tried using the search function, but it doesn't like either acronym.

[The Cape]

Originally posted by Pritch
Could someone please explain to the n00b what DJL and DA dashing are? I tried using the search function, but it doesn't like either acronym.

DJL is Double Jump Landing. Like a double jump cancel without an attack. You just cancel your first jump with a second very quickly.

As for DA dash. It is where you cancel a dashdance into a tilt, a throw, or a smash. Also called Pivot cancel. The hub has a video of this, or you can watch the fox trix video.

[aho43]

Da dash is actually the act of just cancelling the dash into a standing position.

[Pritch]

I'll track down the fox trix vid, that's easy enough to find.

As for the DJL, do you just fastfall the double jump?

EDIT: Got the fox trix vid and watched it, I take it that the DA dash is just attacking IMMEDIATELY after turning around (canceling when you turn around). Do I have that right?

[Elno1]

yes you have it right i dont see how itd be useful in a battle, i think dashdancing then down to canel your dash into a smash is way better but thats just me.

[flagitious]

Originally posted by Elno1
yes you have it right i dont see how itd be useful in a battle, i think dashdancing then down to canel your dash into a smash is way better but thats just me.

You can't crouch cancel initial dash, hence the point of DA dash.

[TiRune]

performing perfect wavedashes is still helpfull for Peach' spacing, no matter what other moves there are, you can still use the wavedash for mindgames and spacing >.>

[Yuna]

I'm sick and tired of people saying that WD:ing is obselete, especially with Peach. In fact, I think Peach's WD is much better than, say, Luigi's. So what if he can wavesmash across 1/4th of the stage? No smart person would be caught up in that unless they had just botched a dsmash and was helplessly caught in the animation.

Peach's WD is so short, it's perfect to use to get out of range of attacks. So you see Marth coming at you with that sword of his. What do you do?

* Run at him and hope you touch him first? No, that would be stupid.
* Shield? Well, it works, but then you'd have to roll afterwards to prevent a grab or shorthop/jump into an aerial. And again he can shield it and just grab you.
* Roll? Well, it's a long animation. Marth would WD after you and smash you. Also, what good will it do you? You'd just roll away over and over again, trying to get out of reach.

So what is the smartest thing to do if you see him about to smash/tilt/fair you? Wavedash backwards! It's so short, you have enough time to dashattack/dashgrab (remember to jumpcancel it) him! Or just pull a turnip or something else.

The point is, WD is obviously the best choice in that situation.

Also, what if Marth keeps tippering you? Wow, that Marth have good spacing. What can you do to prevent the tippers? Run in the other direction? Wow, how smart. Roll like mad? Peh.

WD:ing is good for another reason, you don't turn around! Much better than a stupid dash which will require you to DJL, WD or CC in order to turn around.

Because of it's shorts distance and fairly short animation, it's also perfect for mindgames and fakeouts.

So stop claiming something is obselete just because YOU haven't found a good use for it. I mean, some Peaches never use uair because it's so much harder to sweetspot/hit with a good knockback than the nair. It'll still kill jigglypuff at a much lower %.

[flagitious]

Originally posted by flagitious

Anyways I'm just throwing this stuff out there, I really don't use DA dash yet but on paper WD doesn't seem to have much left. Luckily however smash is far from on paper.

I'm not trying to discredit wavedashing for pratical purposes, I am trying to be theoretical. I'm a hypocrite, I wavedash alot, which you can see in my vids.

Also the point you raise is facing marth at tipper range you say to wavedash back, but "theoretically" why wavedash back when you can dash backwards and pivot? Sometimes wavedash wouldn't be fast enough to escape a forward smash.

Anyways I am sorry if my first post was misleading in my intent.

[Yuna]

It's not just to escape a forward smash. It's ot escape the tipper range! call it mindgames, foreseeing what my opponent will do, whatever. I've saved my own *** I don't kjnow how many times by WD:ing backwards, escaping Ness bats, Tippers and a wholw bunch of killer moves.

[Gekigarion]

Originally posted by FallenAngelII
I'm sick and tired of people saying that WD:ing is obselete, especially with Peach. In fact, I think Peach's WD is much better than, say, Luigi's. So what if he can wavesmash across 1/4th of the stage? No smart person would be caught up in that unless they had just botched a dsmash and was helplessly caught in the animation.

Peach's WD is so short, it's perfect to use to get out of range of attacks. So you see Marth coming at you with that sword of his. What do you do?

* Run at him and hope you touch him first? No, that would be stupid.
* Shield? Well, it works, but then you'd have to roll afterwards to prevent a grab or shorthop/jump into an aerial. And again he can shield it and just grab you.
* Roll? Well, it's a long animation. Marth would WD after you and smash you. Also, what good will it do you? You'd just roll away over and over again, trying to get out of reach.

So what is the smartest thing to do if you see him about to smash/tilt/fair you? Wavedash backwards! It's so short, you have enough time to dashattack/dashgrab (remember to jumpcancel it) him! Or just pull a turnip or something else.

The point is, WD is obviously the best choice in that situation.

Also, what if Marth keeps tippering you? Wow, that Marth have good spacing. What can you do to prevent the tippers? Run in the other direction? Wow, how smart. Roll like mad? Peh.

WD:ing is good for another reason, you don't turn around! Much better than a stupid dash which will require you to DJL, WD or CC in order to turn around.

Because of it's shorts distance and fairly short animation, it's also perfect for mindgames and fakeouts.

So stop claiming something is obselete just because YOU haven't found a good use for it. I mean, some Peaches never use uair because it's so much harder to sweetspot/hit with a good knockback than the nair. It'll still kill jigglypuff at a much lower %.

Actually, in that situation I would simply walk backwards. You can run in the opposite direction directly out of a walk, and the WD's distance is so short you can pretty much cover the distance by walking. Admittedly, though, WD still has uses.

I noticed that while messing around, if I walk occassionally it throws people off. They don't expect you to be just walking around and if they're in the air, sometimes they attack ahead of you, and in the case of something like Marth's dash attack, it'll miss you by a mile.

[Yuna]

This is why walking is bad:

* It's slow. Marth can easily wavedash after you or simply run after you.

And why wavedashing in that situation is actually better than running:

* In my experience, the initial wavedash animation seems to be slightly faster than the initial dashanimation. You are carried further backwards faster, but the lag afterwards is longer.

[flagitious]

'In my experience, the initial wavedash animation seems to be slightly faster than the initial dashanimation. You are carried further backwards faster, but the lag afterwards is longer.'

Well you are right, but if you need something really really fast then dash is faster because you don't go anywhere during the initial jump frames. But probably better to dodge or block or something in that case. So I guess WD does keep a good advantage in some situations.

[Gekigarion]

Originally posted by FallenAngelII
This is why walking is bad:

* It's slow. Marth can easily wavedash after you or simply run after you.

And why wavedashing in that situation is actually better than running:

* In my experience, the initial wavedash animation seems to be slightly faster than the initial dashanimation. You are carried further backwards faster, but the lag afterwards is longer.

That wasn't quite the situation.

Originally posted by FallenAngelII
So what is the smartest thing to do if you see him about to smash/tilt/fair you?

If he's gonna attack you, he's gonna attack you. He's not gonna Wavedash or anything. If you weren't absolutely certain that he was gonna attack, then a wavedash would be good in order, but a certain attack (Tipper, of course) would be more efficiently dodged with a walk. Remember, if he's aiming for a tipper, then you barely have to move to get out of his range.

Remember that Peach's WD stinks in the first place, and it barely covers any distance. My whole point was you literally could cover the same distance in the lag of the WD as you could simply walking. Walking starts up quickly and ends nearly instantly, so you can retaliate rather fast. If you couldn't get out of say, Marth's sword by walking, then Peach's pathetic WD would definitely not get her far enough from her to dodge it either.

Don't underestimate walking. I'm talking about the fastest kind of walk, not just meandering or crawling around. Try fighting someone and simply walking away from them once in a while. It'll definitely throw them off. Give it a try.

Although , I definitely agree with you on the running option.

[Pea©h4§ale]

Originally posted by FallenAngelII
I'm sick and tired of people saying that WD:ing is obselete, especially with Peach. In fact, I think Peach's WD is much better than, say, Luigi's. So what if he can wavesmash across 1/4th of the stage? No smart person would be caught up in that unless they had just botched a dsmash and was helplessly caught in the animation.

Peach's WD is so short, it's perfect to use to get out of range of attacks. So you see Marth coming at you with that sword of his. What do you do?

* Run at him and hope you touch him first? No, that would be stupid.
* Shield? Well, it works, but then you'd have to roll afterwards to prevent a grab or shorthop/jump into an aerial. And again he can shield it and just grab you.
* Roll? Well, it's a long animation. Marth would WD after you and smash you. Also, what good will it do you? You'd just roll away over and over again, trying to get out of reach.

So what is the smartest thing to do if you see him about to smash/tilt/fair you? Wavedash backwards! It's so short, you have enough time to dashattack/dashgrab (remember to jumpcancel it) him! Or just pull a turnip or something else.

The point is, WD is obviously the best choice in that situation.



What can I say, you have some good points- I've always found it easier to go about it different ways, but u definately give me a better way of looking at it. Nevertheless, wavedashing with Peach is only helpful when u actually land the WD- I mean, she's such a floaty character, that even the smallest of baby jumps can give u an air dodge. Even if you do land it, it's more like she scrapes the gound, rather than sliding, like ness, marth, or luigi. But then again, maybe this is the core reason why, according to your remarks, it helps escape opposing moves more efficiently.:eek:

[EdreesesPieces]

Am I the only one who likes to wavedash to cancel a dash dance so I can use my tilts?

[Pea©h4§ale]

Originally posted by EdreesesPieces
Am I the only one who likes to wavedash to cancel a dash dance so I can use my tilts?

I haven't really used WD-ing for this, but I trust others in this thread do.;)