Ganon & shield-grabs

[Kaotical]

My main character is obviously Ganondorf (look at my banner), and I'm not a noob or anything, but I have a problem with most of the time getting shield-grabbed, especially as Ganondorf. I know that knowing the range on my attacks could help me out in this area, but still I get shield-grabbed way too much. Everyone knows that Ganondorf's speed is lacking so if Ganon misses an attack or screws up, he's done, and I'm working on that. Could anyone post some ways that I could avoid being shield-grabbed with everyone's favorite lord of evil?

[TestRider]

Obviously, judging the distance between you and the opponent and spacing your moves accordingly is the best way to avoid getting shield grabbed. This works best with the forward tilt, forward air and back air. If I'm not mistaken, L-cancelling Ganon's up air or the first hit of his neutral air will also let you recover fast enough to dodge an incoming shield grab. There's this nifty trick with Ganon's neutral A on the ground : since it's so fast to come out, you can use it right after a blocked aerial attack, and if you L-cancelled properly your neutral A should come out before your opponent is able to grab you, just like if you were shine cancelling an aerial attack with Fox or Falco.
Another thing I like to do with Ganon is to run towards my opponent, short hop and hit him with a down air, holding forward on the joystick to increase my momentum and land behind my opponent. The move's power will block-stun your foe for quite a bit, and any attempt at shield grabbing is foiled by the fact that you landed in his back. The move also has good knockback when shielded, so if you space it perfectly you can put enough space between you and your opponent to avoid the grab that follows if he shields the blow.
When fighting on the ground, your neutral A is too fast to get you shield grabbed, so if you see your opponent holding his shield up, just keep slapping it with your neutral A until he decides he has had enough and rolls away or something. From my experience, most of the time the Gerudo Dragon knocks a blocking opponent far enough to avoid the usual shield grab, so it's a pretty safe approach if you're facing a shield grab happy player. And of course, just like with everyone else, mixing up regular attacks with grabs (preferably jump-cancelled ones) ensures your adversary can't win by shielding all match long.

[Thomas Tipman]

along with proper spacing if you SHFF uair and nair (pressing A as soon as your airborn) you should end up auto-canceling giving you less lag and a head start on coutering or dodging.

[Elno1]

all u have to do is space of course but l cancel everything if you can into ganons neutral A on the ground.

[UNDlSPUT3D]

Full hop down air, jump after the auto cancel, and they'll sheild grab the air, giving you a perfect opportunity to fair them in the face.

Run into their face with a upair , and auto cancel it, jump again and fair...
Auto cancels are pretty important to ganonz game. Learn them.

[SynikaL]

"Auto Cancels"? You mean like...waiting until the animation of the first aerial is finished.... and then jumping again?:rolleyes:



-Syn
(must we have terminology for everything?)

[Thomas Tipman]

during some moves when you land on a specific frame you dont need to l-cancel cause it auto-cancel. which is also less laggier too. peaches float cancel is a broken verson of auto canceling, though i dont get how you auto-cancel a dair and double jump cause you never touch the floor.

[Rukazor]

Spacing or no spacing, it's next to impossible to avoid a sheild grab when playing against Marth, Roy or Sheik, as their grabs have a very long latteral range.

My suggestion would be to never leave the air :D

[Thomas Tipman]

wrong, you wont get touched if you bair marth or if you foward B and he shields it, it knocks him back enough so he cant grab you.

[SynikaL]

Ok, someone explain to me this "Auto Cancelling" thing in detail, as I just picked up Ganon and I don't think my sarcastic quip had anything to do with it. Is it like L-Cancelling w/o the L button?


-Syn

[Thomas Tipman]

by SuperDoodleMan

Auto cancel = after an air attack is
done doing damage, there is often an
animation of the character returning
to their falling state, during which
you can't do anything. Some attacks
are such that that animation will not
give any lag upon landing.
-------------------------------------
N-Air

Total: 44
Hit: 7-8, 16-17
Auto cancel: <3 22>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
-------------------------------------
U-Air

Total: 33
Hit: 6-16
IASA: 30
Auto cancel: 22>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
-------------------------------------
B-Air

Total: 35
Hit: 10-15
IASA: 29
Auto cancel: <6 19>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
-------------------------------------
D-Air

Total: 44
Hit: 16-20
IASA: 38
Auto cancel: <3 36>
Landlag: 35
L canceled: 17
-------------------------------------
F-Air

Total: 44
Hit: 14-19
IASA: 35
Auto cancel: <6 34>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
-------------------------------------

i know you may be thinking WTF how am i gonna know what frame i land on, but i know a trick. for uair if you uair as soon as you jump and fastfall as soon as possible you should auto cancel almost all the time and the same technique works for nair if you sh with no fast fall. i dont know how you would auto cancel the rest consistantly but uair seems to be the move the benefits the most from it IMO.

[Kaotical]

Thanks for posting the info for auto-cancelling and all, but I'm more of a visual learner. Not saying I'm not going to try it and all, but I wanna see an example possibly if somebody could point me in the direction of a visual example maybe.

Also, thanks for all the responses everybody.

[Kaotical]

I'm really sorry for posting again right after one of my posts, but I have to ask this: Could someone please define and break down what the heck Thomas Tipman posted in those charts? I don't totally understand how to define the numbers.

Ex: U-Air says auto-cancel: 22>. What does that mean?

[Pichu Paizano]

The numbers are referring to the number of frames it takes to complete each move.
EX. For Nair: It takes either 7-8, or 16-17 frames (depending on what, I don't know) for the move to actually hit. To land normally afterwards w/o any doing anything, there are 25 frames of lag. If you l-cancel it, there are 12 frames of lag. If the move is auto cancelled, there are either 3 or 22 frames, depending I guess on whether the move took 7-8 or 16-17 frames to hit. Again, I'm not positive all this info is correct. Sorry if I misinterpreted anything. (which I probly did) Just trying to help out a bit.

[Thomas Tipman]

U-Air

Total: 33 -how many frames is the whole move. 33 so its a bit more than half a second. (the game runs at 60fps)

Hit: 6-16 -during the move these are the frames that deal damage.

IASA: 30 -you can cancel out the move into somthing else as soo as you reach this frame. (IASA=interruptible as soon as)

Auto cancel: 22> -if you land during this frame you will only suffer ganons airless land lang. (which is 5 frames)

Landlag: 25 -when you land a move you will suffer this many frames of lag.

L canceled: 12 -l-canceling it will give you this many frames of lag.

do you get it now?

[Opiate_Crush]

Does the > arrow mean from frame 22 and any after it, or just during that specific frame?

[Liquid Knives]

i think it means less than 22...