(Doctor) Marios Double shorthop aerial

[VilNess]

Some of you might not know but Marios have doubleshorthop aerial.
It´s harder than Marths double fairs but still possible.
1st. shorthop
2nd. use Bair ASAP
3rd. Don´t fastfall
4rd. you should be able to pull a sexkick just before landing.

I play Doc. And I have found this useful against sheild-grabbers to use now and then. And you don´t always have to pull the sexk-kick, you can landwavedash for instance or 2nd jump to something.

Any experiences?
...prolly more useful for mario since his seckick is strong just when it´s released, though at low % if you connect the sexkick with doc you can sprintgrab if they don´t CC

[maelstrom218]

Hmmm. . .I knew about Doc/Mario's short hop->ABA->aerial wavedash (AWD), but never knew about the double aerial. . .I'd agree that it'd be an excellent tech vs. shield-grabbers b/c they'd probably only be expecting a single ABA.

IMO though, I think that the short hop->ABA->AWD/2nd jump is more useful simply b/c of the wavedash's sheer versatility. Using the AWD to follow up the ABA w/another attack (kinda like Luigi, if anyone here plays him) seems like a pretty interesting tech to consider. You could follow up the AWD w/a C-stick d-smash, or AWD backwards if they shield into a dashdance->shffl'd AFA/AUA, or Pill spam, or f-tilt. . .

. . .meh, I've got nothing. I'm just rambling at this point.

Anyways, VilNess, you should really spread the word about this double aerial and short hop->ABA->AWD/2nd jump tech. So far, I haven't seen anyone use this, but personally I think it has quite a bit of potential. I've actually been trying to learn the short hop->ABA->AWD for some time now, but it's **** hard to pull off consistently.

[VilNess]

Well thanks.
I posted a similiar thread about Marios triplesexkicks but got absolutely no response. :(
it´s like you have to have vids of them working to turn people´s minds :p

AWD after bair is a bit easier than the sexkick cause the timing has to be near perfect. and even then if you are too far from your enemy the feet won´t most likely connect. though if you get inside the enemy then it seems to be easiest.

btw. I play luigi and double aerials are a must for him. I think his bair is a bit underestimated because during shorthop you can fastfall and still get another bair, unlike with double fairs.

Oh and I´ve been sometimes able to bair enemies through the stage with the aid of AWD but it´s kinda hard.

[chesterr01]

well, triple sexkicks with mario and doc would be kinda useless since... well why would you actually do that. You would have to jump, sexkick, rejump, sexkick, resexkick. Personnally, I think this isn't very useful, and it simply mkes you stay in the air for too long.

But.. I think that sh ABA into sexkick would be something to try out. But how would you use it? Would you ABA right through the opponent? cause the way I see it, you would ABA in the front of his shield and he'd grab you out of your short hop, wouldn't he?

[VilNess]

Well you gotta consider things like shieldstun for instance.
Though I gotta check frame info if the lag between ending of the hitbox of bair and starting of Nair is less than 7 frames or even close to it.

triplesexkicks=mindgames. everybody fears a doc when he has had his foot pulled out for awhile.

[Eljin]

actually like two days ago i seen it ( while I was playing as doc and i can't say discovered because you made this thread first lol ) while playing my friends Marth, but when I watched it happen it was more like a WTH than a thats something new. the only reason I tried it was because on Friday/Saturday before that I was at The Cape's smashfest and he pointed out the Full Double Jump bair, and said i need to use it more often. So i tried and it worked but I can't L cancel the TASH ( Two Aerial Short Hop... that sounds good we can creat our own lingo for this section just like they have done in the Samus section lol ) I think when i do it it's like im so amazed it came out ( at thet last second ) that i panic and don't hit the L button but ima try inpractice mode now since it's proof that anyone can do it.

oh yeah about the ABA and how you may get sheild grabed you could use the DI in the beginning and in the end of the ABA then do ANA and continue to DI. or if you dont wanna take the chance sh ABA ( no ff ) jump again ff ANA l cancel punch to down smash combo. That could definitely work these are just thoughts although I think ABA jump ff ANA punch downsmash has a better possibility of working better in all areas considering shield size. It would definitely wear their shield down. They would have to do plenty of spot dodging ( and they have to be spot timing also and another thing they'd either get caught trying to roll out or drop their shield because they wouldn't know what else you may do after the ff ANA.

[Cyphus]

i don't get any use from doc's double sh aerial. In order to do it..u have to not FF...
if i want a 2nd line of offense from a SH, i'll just FFLC the bich into a Jab. its quicker, has better reach, and leads into more stuff.
besides...to do the double aerial u actually have to prepare for it, prior to even knowing if u'll need it.
In other words...u HAVE to backkick the instant u jump...just for the potentially of that possibility u'll even want to sex kick after...for the small chance the oponent is still in range.
Its a fancy trick and all...but i don't believe it has any practical use, when's it'll always be in the shadow of simple shuffle into Jab/D.Smash.

Likewise w/ the WD,i see no reason to sacrifice ur best SHing game when u rely on distance and timing...for the like of escaping or moving behind the oponent, when it requres u remain further vulnerable in air when an oponent can eat ur lag from the aerial before u can even get the WD out. Sure, they can shiled it, and u just might sneak in a backwards WD to move behind them and grab, as they stupidly go for a horribly laggy attack....but i I am shielding than SABA coming at me..and i c him WD behind me..i'm rolling forward to escape. Simple as that.
Besides, if i wanna get behind an oponent or safely escape...i'll just SH attack through/over their shiled w/ a DocPunch/Sex...and shuffle that mofo into a grab once behind.

[VilNess]

I appreciate your opinion but if you try to play Doc. abit like Ness shorthop autocanceled aerials have their place in Ness´game.
I nowadays play my Doc. a bit like my Ness. Even though I can shuffle I see shorhopped Bairs just as good options to mix it up.
I agree that double-aerials shorthop is usually not the best option but
the WD after it can do wonders!
For example run through your enemy and sh bair (and keep going away from them). If they shield it you can still landWD toward them and do something you desire (f-tilt and fsmash have been good options to me.
or just Bair some quite floaty char and LandWD and repeat, you just might chainbair him through the stage.
Oh one more trick:
Sh bair-> 2nd jump-> 2nd bair> fast fall>3rd bair and L-cancel.
This is situational but it looks freaky if you do it correctly and it has a bit like freezed my enemies to stand there and just guess what am I gonna do next.

[Cyphus]

hm...i was a tough critic the first glance, and overlooked some things.
i didn't realize u had posted u could 2nd jump after the attack...nor did it ever cross my mind. lol
and i'll have to try that SHABAWDing on floaty guys....it would probably be a better juggle(???!) on them than his already nice UpAir(that instead owns the Fastfallers)


its not rare for me to shuffle an ABA then WD into a smash.
but...perhaps i can stretch the limits and pull it off at lower(using its speed) and higher(using the quicker distance) damage w/out FFing and instead WDing immediately...i'll see how it works out

i'm still not fond of the afterjump or sex kick...but this WD might prove to extending his combo and finisher potential.
thanx

[VilNess]

Oh yeah here´s what I do too sometimes when edgeguarding.
It´s hard but at least it proves Doc. can be technical too:
grab ledge->fall out of ledge and instand 2nd jump-> Bair and DI towards stage->landwavedash tp grab the ledge again. Now if your enemy makes it back to stage you can still ledgeWD to grab them.
Oh and of course you can just DI yourself after the 2ndjumpbair so you grab the ledge anyway without landWD, but it kinda looks confusing the landWD way. and there is another advantage to it too.
Because after you LandWD towards ledge you don´t have to grab it, you can just bair again!
I kinda love Doc´s bair, I use it a same way as Ness´Fair :)

SHABAWD! I love that sound of that! That´s gotta be used for Doc´s terminology thread or something :D

The after jump can be pretty Lethal for mindgames. Like if someone puts up their shield SHABA and RAJAFA after it! or RAJANA

RAJAFA: Reverse After Jump Aerial Forward Air!
RAJANA: Reverse After Jump Aerial Neutral Air!

that reverse means like you DI through your enemy and do the aerial on the opposite direction, though I don´t know does ANA count for that since it can´t be C-stickied.

[Cyphus]

Originally posted by VilNess
Oh yeah here´s what I do too sometimes when edgeguarding.
It´s hard but at least it proves Doc. can be technical too:
grab ledge->fall out of ledge and instand 2nd jump-> Bair and DI towards stage->landwavedash tp grab the ledge again. Now if your enemy makes it back to stage you can still ledgeWD to grab them.


heheh, i also use that!

also u can WD off the side and go into a sex kick instead of grabbing, its a great way to fall into an enemy w/ a weak hit, that simply makes them lose altitude.(then u can just DJ and UpB back up.


oh yeah...............500th post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:chuckle:

[SuperDoodleMan]

I have some good news and some bad news.

The bad news is, there is ZERO margin for error on this trick. You need to execute the b-air exactly 2 frames into the air, and you need to execute the n-air as soon as the b-air is over.

The good news is, if you use Z for the n-air, it will automatically L cancel it, since you pressed Z within the L cancelling window.

[VilNess]

Whoa nice to know!

thanks as always, SuperDoodleMAN!!

[Eljin]

Wait, I am confused... How would pressing Z make it auto L cancel. Maybe I am not thinking to realistically about it. I dont have the game to test it, so could ou elaborate on it more.

[SuperDoodleMan]

You can use Z to L cancel. Since you pressed Z within the time frame of L cancelling (to start the attack) the attack will be L cancelled. It can be done with any air attack that hits very quickly.

The window of L cancelling is on the frame you land, or the previous 6 frames in the air.

[Darkmoon873]

That's awesome. So, you could could do it, straight into a grab/uair/dsmash. Without the extra effort. >.>

Oh, the mind games.

[Wario-bucket]

You know that took me like 40 tries to FINALLY get it i have an easier way without doing that.

If your far away do marios left/right +B to do his cape get close to the edge and do his up+B its that simple ive gotten back from a LONG way down the lane.