Ganon for a backup char. need help in some questions.

[VilNess]

Hi All!
some might know me, and I play Ness for my main.
It´s just that everyone bad matchups and some matchups with Ness I just can´t stand and are not so fun.
I´ve been playing Doc for my backup but there´s something that I don´t enjoy with him as much as Ness. Pills are a bit boring...

Well I messed around with Ganon this weekend and had lotsa fun with his style. besides it seems Ganon can even the fights that are hard for Ness in PAL (mostly Marth and Peach, not sheik though in PAL)
though ganon doesn´t have advantage over Marth but it seems kinda even considering the marth/Ganon topic here.

As for the questions:

1: I didn´t see Shin_ganondorf mention Peach be a bane for Ganon in his guide. So what makes this matchups even? is the crazy power Ganon possesses or simply the range advantage or both? or something else. I think I know what Peach can do to Ganon but if anyone is familiar with this matchup let me know ^_^

2: What are some good Ganon vids I should get to pick up some tricks with Ganon? I´ve seen some vids of Eddie and he seems pretty good. Anyone care to be more specific?


oh here´s my funny trick I noticed when messing around with ganon:
Dashforward towards enemy-> pivot a Dsmash so the first hit strikes on the side where enemy isn´t. If you hit with the 2nd hit your enemy (at least pichu did at 0%) flies to perfect place to do another Dsmash and you´ll hit with both hits. Seems kinda situational and DI probably kills it... and I only tested it on pichu so.
But idea is always an idea :p


anyway: I´d appreciate if players like Tipman or other Ganons coudld share their triforce of wisdom... eww POWER, whatever ;)

Thanks in advance!

[Thomas Tipman]

ok sir with the question on peach, she's a H0E.

you'll find yourself having some problems with her priority, edge guard, grabs, and turnips. best advice is try to keep her above you and uair alot, since she is pretty vulnerable from underneth you have the advantage with uair. she can float so she'll mind game you a bit but once you catch her and kill her float follow her DI with multi airs (one to hit her and the other incase she air dodges, her air dodge ends quick so you'll catch her then).

an other thing that works kinda well is reverse uair while she is on the ground, A. you get the range on her, B. you hit her above most of her ground attack hitboxes, C. if you auto-cancel the uair her traction will keep her from sliding far and you can follow up with a ftilt.

edge gaurding her is simple for the most part, you can try to abuse the rediculous hitboxes ganon has with his dair and just jump parallel to her and meteor her to her doom or you can try reverse uair on her just make sure you dont hit her through the umbrella or else she'll get extra hieght when she upB's, also this is only really usfull if she is a good distance from the ledge then proceed to edge hog.

peaches dash attack is deceptive in how big the hitbox is and how long it stays so if you plan to WD out of range i advise doing it way ahead of time.

turnips kill your A moves. you can catch them in the air with Z and drop them instantly, just dont forget that you have downB and fowardB to your disposal so dont let peach own you as your trying to get rid of a turnip. and if she tries to edgeguard with a turnip catch it as you make your way to the ledge (cause they own). if she dsmashes dont recover under the ledge, if its to late edge tech more than once and hope you lived.

basically mind games will get you through the rest but keep in mind she can combo well and her grab range is good let alone she has an awsome foward throw. peaches probably wont float to much one the ground vs ganon cause...well you can own her if she does. thats all i really got for ya, oh and becarefull when following up after a throw her nair is nasty.

EDIT: check out the ganon vs. thread for help on ther matches aswell.

[VilNess]

Hehee I said before I had interest in this char. And I like to think im not a noob with him.
I like ganon because of his nice combo ability And his b-moves are nice if you know how to use them, like with Ness :)

Yeah I readed most of the ganon threads here but I haven´t posted much here.

One thing I think that could work with Ganon against Peach is catch a turnip and upB her dashattack attempt. I think I mentioned this earlier but I haven´t tested it yet. but I will...

My ganon tactics are ver y much inspired by some of Luke´s bowser tricks.
Like jumping forward and not attack always, sometimes just Dbljump away and Landwavedash somewhere.
I think Ganon has really useful landwavedash. I use it alot.

Thanks for the reverse uair tips. I found out when i get my enemy in air I use uair quite much. And I have done some edgeguarding with it but I haven´t thought of autocanceling it... gotta try.



how about those vids? I saw Eddie ganon vs. sheik in Jungle Japes. He did pretty good there and hardly got grabbed ever.

[Thomas Tipman]

personally i didnt like those vids and i think they are out dated cause i saw a vid were he was playing alot better. i liked Aarosmashguy and grid's vids, also aaron was pretty good i believe.

[GanondorftheXXVI]

A few quick tips

I f you are anticipating a dash attack, you're better off shielding and jumping out of the shield with shffld dair. That kills peach quick

Down throw is great against peach, she is floaty so you can almost always follow up with an aerial

Outrange her with your aerials and beware of nair when doing a combo.

err... more later.

[VilNess]

okay thanks! So are you suggesting to do Out of shield dair after or before the dashattack (like predicting the dashattack)

[GanondorftheXXVI]

If you can anticipate the dash attack, you can either jump as she's coming in OR shield, then do punish during the lag. The only thing you have to be careful about when doing it the first way is that the dash attack lasts quite long and has some good priority, so you don't want her hitting you before the Dair comes out. Either way it's good, dair either kills her or puts her in an uncomfortable position in the air.

As for ganon videos I can recommend that you watch, eddie, rafa, and masashi, and CJ, best ganons of whom I've seen videos. Those guys can really show how it's done.

[VilNess]

OH Yeah I just remembered another good Ganon: Nessby
He got like 3 stomps and was very good overall too.

[Goronsan]

where can i get those videos i need some practise

[maximuspita]

CJ's and Masashi's vids are found at : ssbm.captainjack.jp

Grid's are found usually at http://www.angelfire.com/alt/aob/ but he usually takes the old vids of the site so the hub is a better bet. The site now has some andy vs. eddie action so you can go there and download some of the vids.

For the rest use the hub. If you don't know what I'm talking about go to melee discussion and search the stickies for "Direct Connect Hub".

On peach I like the b-air, it's fast powerful and has decent range. A is good to keep her at bay and to evade shield-grabs. F-tilts work if you do them after a ranged f-air, it works as a nice stagger move. Remember that Peach becomes very fast with float canceling so you'll need to fall back sometimes to your quick moves such as u-air b-air and the thunder punch.

[VilNess]

Yeah, though I got the impression that only stupid Peaches start floating over the ground against Ganon.... or at least do it too much.
Ih she however gets too close with floatcanceling I can see landwavedash back work if Ganons in the air.