Samus newb

[Rebel581]

Okay, well I've decided that to defeat your enemy you have to become your enemy. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. And Samus is my enemy that I can't defeat right now. So I need some tips so I can become better with Samus, learn her weaknesses better, and exploit them.

Okay >_> I just made it sound like a please don't help me topic right there.

I already know the basics with Samus from my friend ChRed2AKrisp so I know how to missle cancel and I know about what attacks seem to be effective. I know how to bomb jump and stuff like that. So anything else I need to know?

And I figured out and it's cool that you can drop a bomb and then when your opponent comes at you it would explode and you can do a sex kick, fair to another bomb or something, or a missle cancel.

So any advice?

[ChRed2AKrisp]

I can't belive you'd actually do this to me.

don't help him, he can find what he want's in other threads. look around if you're so determined.

he's just pissed that my Samus almost alwaysbeats his Roy now, in any of the tourney stages, not just FD which he kept whining he about. He seemed to think I said he sucked, so we played two matches, I twostocked him on FD and single on I belive Yoshi's storY?

If you're actually serious I guess I'll make it my buisness to learn Roy then.

BTW another goal of mine is to get good enough with Y.Link to a t leasyt single stock you or only get single stocked.

Beware, you're not gonna get better than me at Samus.

[UndrDog]

I too am plagued with the burden of fighting a Samus day in and day out. sigh, I feel your pain.

Anyway my best bet in beating Samus is playing as Peach or as Sheik. other then that I dont know what to say. Link does well too.

Anyway to your question. practice with your missles in 1/4th speed. when you can do it and when you cant. focus on how many frames you need to pull off your moves. I'm not anywhere near as good as Jasona but on occasion I can get the better of him. it just takes alot of practice. practice dual missles, wavedashing and mindgames. cant stress mindgames enough. Samus has so many things she can do just to mess with your opponents head. dont forget that the tilt is your nest friend. it has a longer reach then most would expect and it has some decent knockback.

[PhillCollins]

I'd highy recomend the peach to counter the samus. You can be a good distance behind a samus in skill and still beat it with peach.

Or mabye upgrade that roy to a marth?

[Rebel581]

Originally posted by PhillCollins
I'd highy recomend the peach to counter the samus. You can be a good distance behind a samus in skill and still beat it with peach.

Or mabye upgrade that roy to a marth?
I already downgraded that Marth to a Roy.

And hopefully on Friday I'll be able to Samus ditto Krisp and see what I've got to work on. And I'll try the Peach idea. Although Peach isn't one of the characters I usually like to play. I usually play Roy, Ganondorf, or Link. Trying to get better with the two Mario's and the starfox animals. But the only one of those three that actually really stands a chance until I get cancelling out the missles with the sword correctly is Link.

Thanks for the help.

[Jasona]

From our dittos with samus, Undr and I have found some pretty good weaknesses of samus, well I have anyway.
1.) bomb recovery--- while dropping the second bomb to bounce off of, samus is vulnerable (easily exploited with a charge shot)
2.) missle-canceling--- if you can get close enough before a missle-cancel, then samus is vulnerable (easily exploited with a dash attack through the missle into samus)

Actually, those are the only two that stand out at the moment... maybe I'll think of more later.

[Aftermath]

so you want to play samus because you lose to krisp with roy. Hmm... do you think maybe it's time to throw in the towel?

If you are insistent on playing, first thing to do is switch from roy, I don't care what you have to say indefense of him, just switch, that's all there is to it. Pick up falcon, he's a counter to samus and easy to play, even for beginners. I guess picking up samus may help somehow, but i think playing against samus as falcon will help you learn her weaknesses much, much quicker.

However, if you are set on learning samus, you don't seem to committed, so learning anything beyond missile cancel, bomb crap, wavedashing, and maybe some recovery tricksies won't help you too greatly.

This is a really stupid thread, why would you even need help knowing samus' weaknesses? kill her off the top, knee her with falcon, screw up her recovery, that's all there is to it. Her biggest weakness is probably someone below her or comboing her forward, since she doesn't fly too far horizontally. Playing samus will not help you learn how to take advantage of her weaknesses, playing falcon, shieldgrabbing her every chance you get, comboing everything into knee, screwing her recovery with unsweetspotted knees into uairs will help you realize her weaknesses. Playing samus in no way lets me know how to fight against her, all i know is how to play offensive with her, not how to exploit my own weaknesses to make me lose, that is just stupid. The best way to find a character's weakness is not to play as them, but play against them as a character that they are relatively weak against. You can then go back maybe and apply it to your other characters, NOT ROY, or stay with the counter character to use against the person.

If anyone is confused by what i was trying to say in this post, here is the main point: playing as the character won't let you know how to exploit their weaknes, playing as a character that can exploit that character's weakness will.

[Joker]

A nice trick to use is: lay a bomb then lay another while still in mini-ball animation, with the second bomb a little behind the first , then while in the 2nd bomb's ball mode float back to the first bomb ......now exploding causing you to get some air time, enough to shoot one missle, while firing that float backward to the 2nd bomb causing the same oppurtunity for another missle in the same direction or the opposite direction, then once landing from that short jump you can fire another missle resulting 3 missles fired in quick time able to hit more than one target from different directions, simple but effective none the less

[Jasona]

@Cap'n --- I think you just said that he should exploit weaknesses that he doesn't know.
I say stick to roy and just play your heart out until you learn to compensate. Try chaining different combinations of moves to learn the precise start and stop of each as well as their effects. Instead of just trying to beat the crap out of your opponent, actively search for opportunities to try out new things which you would normally never be able to artificially recreate. I throw matches all the time just to try something that hardly ever comes up in practice, but may be crucial in a tournament match (ex. recovery off of a projectile or recovering into a projectile thats in the opposite direction to recover again into a better position than recovering in the right direction initially would have gotten you)

[Rebel581]

Well I'm still going to learn Samus since learning new characters will help me in the long run.

And Joker, I came upon that by accident while playing around with Samus. But it wouldn't work. So now that I know it works I'll keep trying at it.

Killing off the top is hard for Roy. Best move is usmash or dsmash at about 120-140%.

And that was just one of my reasons for playing Samus, I really sorta sucked with her and I wanted to get better.

And Cap'n, thanks for the advice. I'm still going to use Roy as my main but I'll try playing against Samus's with C. Falcon and learning how to play him better too. All I usually do right now with him is run around the screen using grabs, the knee, and nair.

[ChRed2AKrisp]

I hope you know I am serious about learning Roy. I never played a swordsman, maybe I'll practice WD more for Samus.

[Aftermath]

Jasona: i understood he did not know her weaknesses. What i was trying to get across was that if he played falcon at least semi-well for like 5 minutes, all of samus weaknesses would become painfully obvious. I'm not sure if this is well known outside of Jasona and I, but falcon is what you would call a "counter" to samus, meaning that he wins much easier, which must mean samus' weaknesses are pretty clear to him.

[HugS]

I'll say what capn said in a much nicer way. Using samus wont let you know her weaknesses. I have yet to find a samus player that gets "thrilled" over dittos. Playing falcon will make the wins easier. Tech doesn't help you too much with samus anyways, in my opinion, samus is 80% mind games and 20 % tech, and we can't really teach you the mind games easily. This is all just my opinion though. Don't argue with me :) its just my opinion. And to Capn, you are too awesome. Rebel, samus is all you man, the only way to learn is by playing her.

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Next time I see you John(Jon?) lets do a Roy(me) vs. Samus(you) match, andseewhat happens. I'm just curious.

[UndrDog]

Zelda / Falcon / Link / Peach do well against Samus. but I wouldnt call them counters. if your like me and suck at Capt. Falcon, and cant even get him at a decent skill level, go with Zelda. I'm not kidding. she is pretty fun to play with and her arials kill Samus. just watch out for her sucky recovery. (note: her dodge goes higher then her second jump... / you have already heard about Falcon. / Link can deal with Samus' projectiles better then most, and he has alot of his own to throw. but again watch out for the bad recovery./ Peach has a great recovery however. one that easily rivals Samus'. CCing + Peaches downsmash = badtimes. combo your air moves, ( dair has almost no lag at all. so dair -> nair or bair is good). throw turnips into the bomb recovery. and even though Samus' physics are mean and dont allow her to be killed easliy, dont forget that Peach's foward throw rocks!

[Aftermath]

Before i say anything, i'm going to give you a chance to edit your post and change what you said.

Well, i got bored of waiting, so....

You say that peach, zelda, link, nor even falcon is a counter to samus. I agree with you mostly, as link is somewhere around even with samus, and peach is a bit above. But why, i ask, do you advocate Zelda out of the four characters you name. I mean, out of any of those, zelda is the easiest to just completely pwn anywhere. Of course you wouldn't call zelda a counter, she is at a disadvantage in my opinion. Let's see, one good move, vs samus' arsenal, poor recovery vs 2nd or third best, good projectiles next to... well, nothing really. Sure, zelda is good against floaty characters because she can fair them, but i've found samus can do much worse to her more quickly and leave little time for retaliation. The lightning kick is great and all, but it doesn't protect her from a barrage of missiles, sex kicks, and uairs, which of course can lead into other things.... which lead off the edge... which lead to zelda dieing.

Now, in the time it takes to learn how to somehow, overcome this and consistently beat her with a zelda, you've wasted your time, you could have picked up and mastered falcon, which would allow you to beat many other people that aren't samus. But really, falcon is samus' biggest counter in my book. Have you ever seen isai's falcon vs wes? It's not even a fight, it's wes eating the knee from one side of the stage to the other, he goes some lives hardly touching falcon. Not that you'l be up to either of their levels in a couple weeks or anything, but it may just show what a clear advantage falcon has. It may take a little while to get used to him, but playing falcon is a great way to beat any samus, and i'm sure it won't take long to beat krisp with him.

Oh, and if this post sounds like i'm saying samus can never win, then i guess i sort of am, but she can if she does.

[grayfox]

Haven't posted on these threads in a while but thought i'd add my bit tonight as i'm quite bored.

samus counters:

peach- haha no she isn't a counter. I am the best samus in the UK and my mate (smashbros) is the best peach, i can say this quite savely. We play eachother weekly and he is better than me yet i still beat him often. Certainly not a ripping like i would from a counter character. Peaches weaknesses can be exploited by samus. Missiles, charge shot here and there and sex kicks + bairs. If you feel that peach is a counter then turnips ruin recovery, down smash is nasty as alway and good air combos work wonders as someone mentioned earlier.

The forward throw though, it's not as powerful as you may think. A little trick ALOT of people seem to be painfully missing out on is DI. We all know about DI but this DI is beautiful. Its very simple, hold the control stick diagonal up towards the stage when you get hit. With this horizontal distance is reduced as vertical distance goes up. Being higher and closer to the stage is always a plus in my book. With this peaches forward throw becomes a kill move at around 200%, of course you could use a different move to kill much sooner. nairs are nice for peach.

Zelda: Don't waste your time picking up characters that do nothing to anyone unless you are pretty **** good with them. Seeing as you can't beat samus with half decent characters chances are you aren't insane enough to beat her with Zelda.

Falcon: It's not a brillient match up for samus thats a given but i wouldn't say samus doesn't have a chance. Falcon's recovery is screwed by samus, missiles muck him up and the old "look at Wes and Isai" thing can't be used really as Isai rips everyone with falcon. Get a match with Wes vs any other falcon and you'll see him win it. Infact in the S4C matches im sure there's a quote of Wes saying something along the lines of "Your not Isai, stick to your character" after beating his falcon. None the less falcon does quite well vs samus.

Sheik: The main counter imo that no one else seems to have mentioned. Wes also gets ripped in the matches vs Azens sheik but no one mentions that. The good old sheik game works well, no need to explain is there?

[UndrDog]

But why, i ask, do you advocate Zelda out of the four characters you name.

yeah, I agree with you on that. I posted in the IC room about avoiding Samus' Missles and some people said that Zelda would counter Samus. I didnt mention much about Zelda, but I figured if some people hold her as counter I'd include her in my post. just to avoid anyone bringer her up as a counter later in the thread.

and about Falcon, I consider him to be the closest thing to a counter. but I still think a Samus and Falcon of equal skill would come out with 50/50 results. I know Wes is an outstanding player. I've seen him play. but I've never seen Isai play in person. So just from what I'm to understand, Isai looks to be the better of the two. and I think that is why he was able to beat Wes like that. not due to the character match-up. regaurdless I'd still love to see then fight.