Ways to incorporate Peach's dtilt?

[stilettotrap]

I was playing around with this the other day. I found that dtilt is one of Peach's best launchers. Or, at least, it would be if it were faster. A crying shame, since it seems to have the perfect balance of knockback and stun to set up for pretty much everything in Peach's arsenal, including that lovely super-rare sweetspot on Peach's usmash... but I just don't really see any way to incorporate dtilts into Peach's game. It's a little obvious and it just leaves her kinda open. I know it's probably just something to use very sparingly, but anyone here have thoughts on how to use it? Just running up and dcing or wding into it isn't going to work too well.

The best I can come up with is to use it as an occasional substitute for fc aerials during turnip setups.

Or just the standard wding back and praying that it hits.

[TiRune]

actually, I've been using the move for a while now against marth. The d-tilts hitbox scrapes the ground so you can hit someone underneath their shield if timed correctly, you don't have to worry about the opponent hitting you after he shields the move since if the d-tilt connects with his shield it pushes him back a bit. I've found out that this move is very good for spacing and comboing against marth and now I consider it as one of my main weapons against him (seeing that you shouldnt float).
Next tourney I'll try it against other chars also, but I'm sure that especially against fast fallers he move should be used (against floaties the best it could do is give you time to pull a veggie).

[UndrDog]

all I really use it for is to set up the UpSmash. the Down Smash just seems so much better the the dtilt.

[stilettotrap]

TiRune, what if you have someone who knows how to wd from shield?

[TiRune]

stiletto, If you space the dtilt correctly the opponent can WD out of shield all he wants, he won't get anywhere. You should use dtilt sometimes since it has more range then the downsmash (disjuncted hitbox I dare say). Also, you can avoid certain attack or make em hit later if you dtilt since peach will crouch.
Every move of peach is usefull, xcept mayb the peach bomber but I might find some use for that also.
not using all moves off peach is a waste IMO since all her moves have a use at certain times.

[Qwester]

I'd argue with you and say that f-tilt, while it has it's uses, isn't the best move in any situation.

As for d-tilt, I tend to use a mixture of slap or d-throw to land it (d-throw really depends on DI) and as you said.. this sets up for u-smash on the vast majority of characters.

[About Linus]

Ya I have to agree that in most cases the down tilt is outclased by her down smash.

[UndrDog]

I still say that its the best wat to start a juggle. dtilt --> UpSmash --> uptilt / uair --> knockback move.

[Qwester]

If two players are facing each other, one peach the other any of the 26 other characters, if peach d-tilts and the other character grabs (if in range) the grab will always come out first. That for me pretty much makes using d-tilt as an opening launcher redundant.

[stilettotrap]

yeah, that too.

though i guess you could try and use it when the opponent isn't in range.

[Qwester]

Yeah, but against any character that peach would find d-tilt useful against.. they've all got a decent enough grab range anyway (stupid marth) I think the only character who this would really be useful against is zelda or samus, even then.. the spacing needing is just crazy.

[Yuna]

However, the dtilt is an excellent punisher against non-floaties (at lower %s for some) and floaties (at lower %s), especially against fastfallers.

Dtilt -> (ftilt) (depending on how high up they fly) -> slap -> grab/dsmash.

[RyokoYaksa]

ftilt is best used to clash with other attacks... unlike dsmash, ftilt has a single, large hit window so it's better for canceling things like Marth's fsmash than any other attack Peach has. It also weakly taps people out of the air above her head, allowing for a combo at lower percents. The move itself can juggle at lower percents at tipper. >_>

As for dtilt... it would be GODLY if it were faster. As this point though, it is still a balanced move that is very useful on hit. I find that I have to make use of its evade-and-counter properties (like fsmash) to actually hit with it against most people. Having little lag, it's a good launcher and is hard to punish on block without Peach being able to act first.

[UndrDog]

Yeah, but against any character that peach would find d-tilt useful against.. they've all got a decent enough grab range anyway (stupid marth) I think the only character who this would really be useful against is zelda or samus, even then.. the spacing needing is just crazy.

That figures, I forgot to take into account that my main means of practice is Jasona and he is a Samus major.

[EdreesesPieces]

On that one Yoshi's Island level, (the name escapes me at the moment, it has a pipe on the left, and those yellow blocks in the middle everyone falls down to their death on..) But ifyou stand on the very left, and, if your opponent is trying to come back, I've done the down tilt and it causes my opponent to get spiked strait down! I don't know if it's some sort of glitch, because of the nature of that little spot, but haven't other people seen that happen? I was confused as to why that happens and why it only happens on that spot.

[stilettotrap]

That particular spot just has a spiking property. I don't remember whether or not it can be meteor-cancelled... but it's not too useful either way. Peach generally has better edgeguarding options.

[D'oH]

Yeah, it can be meteor cancelled...though it's unpredictability can make it an asset...though she does have better edgeguarding assets...

[EdreesesPieces]

Yeah, I know she has alot better options, but I wanted a better understanding of why that was happening so maybe we could figure out a way to make her be able to do that same thing on other stages. Hey, it's not likely at all, but you never know =)

[flagitious]

Sorry I have been inactive for a while, here are my thoughts on dtilt.

It is has a short duration, interuptable after 25 frames. (dsmash takes 39).
It isn't the fastest move to come out, but it is fast enough that it is impossible to react to it, must be anticipated. (hits on frame 12, avg human reaction time = .25, 15 frames).
It has pretty good range, better than the down smash by a good bit. Also like Ryoko mentioned, you move back when it starts making it safer.
Free crouch cancelling :)
Best payoff of any move against most characters if it hits due to juggleage.
Good shield stun and push back, even if they block they will only be ahead by 6 frames; Virtually impossible to be shield grabbed. If they try to shield grab this attack just slap them first.
Hits some characters if they full shield (falco, fox, peach, zelda).
Meteor smashes if they are close to you and level or higher.

So on paper it seems very good, the only draw back is it comes out after 12 frames instead of some faster things like a grab (7), slap(2), dsmash(5). So I would say it is not the best move to use if both characters become ready at the same time. There are many times where you have extra time to hit, like if you opponent wiffs a laggy move, dtilt should be used then. Also good to use with spacing.

Here are some ideas for less obvious times to use dtilt:
Run at them crouch cancel -> dtilt, (if you are expecting a shield grab)
You predict a in place tech after a dthrow.
If they stop trying to shield grab after your float canceled air attacks, mix it up with a dtilt.
If you catch them in a dair when they are trying to grab the edge, follow with a dtilt spike?. (I got this to work in training mode just now, wondering how practical it is.)

/end of hypocritcal writing
I say this because I don't use it much but am realizing how good it is.

[gilgamehsh]

yeah peach's dtilt is a spike.... not just on that map. it's like link's except it doesn't work when people hang on the edge.

[flagitious]

it can work when they are hanging on the edge, just not very often

another good use for it: if they are approaching from the air wavedash/da dash back and then dtilt em when they miss.

[Yuna]

Ok, I don't know if you're all just weird or it's different in PAL, but in PAL, the dtilt and smash will semi-spike with d-tilt someones full-spiking (not sure if it's meteor cancellable).