Any one needs help

[D-Man]

Greetings to all I'm D-Man this thread is for anyone who needs help with Samus (I was impressed by Kishcubeds Sheik thread so I decided to do the same). But anyway if any one wants to voice an opioin or just say somthing that u think that I may had not said feel free to respond. I'll be awaiting questions. Ask to your hearts content.(I may not be on at times but dont worry I will reply as soon as possible.
(And this is to KishCubed I really wanna meet u or Chat or something hope to meet u someday)

[Jasona]

I can't seem to perform the pillar of fire on anyone anymore. I have done it before, but since it is hard to do in a real match, I let it slide from memory. Now I want to pull it off but can't remember how to start it, even in practice mode. I need your help D-man.

[PhillCollins]

I think it just takes the right amount of B pressing

[Aftermath]

Wow, i seriously doubt your knowledge D-man. so here's a question you should answer for me. Let's say cf dthrows me, whiwch way should i DI to get out of the knee? smash or tilt? also, should i tech, if so, which way? i usually prefer to go right, but my opponent will expect me to go left at the times when it seems important. Anyway, can i actually avoid the knee when i'm like around 70-110%? also, when i attempt to do the fair, uair, fair, sex kick combo, i don't know exactly when i should ff to keep it going as long as possible, any help on this would be appreciated.

Jasona, best practice is on level 9 bowser on FD. :)

[MLRS]

yeah, i've never actually gotten it to work on a person, but i think lvl 9 bowser either hlds up, or jumps a tiny bit after every bomb, cause you can do like 15 of em. i think the best candidate for it would be samus or luigi for obvious reasons. and i agree with aftermath here, it'd be one thing if this guy was recognized for being good, but he isn't. honestly, he considers kish^3 a celebrity, thats just sad.

but just in case you do actually know your ****, what should you do when you're being f air chained by marth?

edit: realized i used lol, deleted.

[Jasona]

my problem is in the position I and my opponent need to be in to get the pillar going. Also, I'm still uncertain about the height. Don't be so hard on D-man, we all suspected that he was a newb with good intentions, but you din't have to badger him about it.
@MLRS --- since a marth tries to keep you on the tip of his sword, or close to it, try to DI away AND use a bomb to bounce off of it. If you're really aspiring to turn the tables instead of just getting away, then find the spot in dropping a bomb that lets you dodge (literally, just like a dodge but without the helplessness that comes after it). That should get you close enough to nair or something.

[MLRS]

yeah, i know what to do, i was just testing him.

[th3nd]

Hi, im like new to this forum..

i think im a relatively good samus user considering samus is the only character i can use. but the forum would help me more if i knew what all these abbrevations mean....fwd, swd ect.

please this would help me out alot

[Jasona]

I love newbs, especially if when they see all the garbage samus can do and stare in awe thinking "I'll never be able to do that" (hint hint---that was me a little while ago)
fwd seems like a forward wavedash, swd is a super wavedash... I'm starting to like this thread....

they should make me a samus thread mod so I can sticky this and keep all those stupid swd threads from multiplying

[UndrDog]

Yeah like that will happen. lol

and I still say you should include some of the special recovery techs that Samus can do such as the ones on FoD, Kanton, Corneria, ect...

[Aftermath]

If you haven't already, the copendium of knowledge is a good place to look for beginners. It's on the first page of Melee Discussion, it has nearly all the terms used on smashboards. some variations though are uair (up aerial), bair (back aerial), fair (forward aerial), etc. being replaced by AFA (aerial forward A), AUA (aerial up A), and so on. other than that, I'm pretty sure the terms listed on the copendium are ubiquitous to all swf.

Also, Jasona, i went through about the same thing (i think) for a while after i learned how to do the "pillar of fire". I found that on humans it is a very unreliable technique, as it seems only bowser is easily comboed by it and often the person will be able to simply attack you out of it. i believe marth, sheik, and maybe ganon are a few characters that it can work moderately well, but the key is to wd directly in the middle of them before starting to dorp the bombs. This is actually harder than you might think, because often they will shield the bombs (which can actually open up other options), but if not then you can probably do it a few times to them before they somehow manage to get out of it. I wouldn't take my advice completely though, with your wavebomb, it might be a bit of an easier setup for getting under them. I hope you the best of luck, as finding a method to make the pillar reliable and at least partially abusable would be a huge contribution to the gameplay of samus, i think it'd be much more useful than the swd.

I don't know, you've got me thinking baout it again, maybe the rest of us samus players can experiment with it as well and share our discovreies as you come across yours. Wow long post, well, if anyone is still reading, i don't like pie.

[Jasona]

I think I found a solid setup for the pilar of fire. If someone tries to DI up out of wavebombing, then I think it is an easy pillar of fire.
I just thought of a new edge guard for samus, but once again it relies on something I can't do very consistantly. Wall jump canceling into a missle, which pushes samus back into another wall jump ans repeat until samus is pretty low. After that, just wall jump cancel into a jump and repeat with either your other jump or your up+b until you get back up on the level. This is all very theoretical, but it looked pretty solid in my most recent fantasy. LOL It would be very nice if samus could missle cancel from a wall jump cancel. So much to test in so much time.

[ChRed2AKrisp]

The problem I found with that is that although the the misslestops the animation it does not stop you from moving forward. And since missles have no knockback it would take a while to DI back into the wall while in midair. The only thing you can do is fully charged power beam which pushes you back enuf that it takes little time to DI into wall, jump then missle. For MC in somwhere like fourside yo could(In one of the narrow spaces you can WJ up drop below the edge of the other side and WJ, missle so that just as you missle comes out you land, perfectly missle canceling. Then u could either run off and hit the wall, do it again or WD off, press back immediately and WJ. I think just running is faster cuz there's no ledge to hang on. Doing this the firing rate is not as fast as just standing, probably 2/3 as fast, but doing it just once might be useful cuz you won't be left vulnerable just hovering above the stage tying to jump then cancel, and there's no lag afterwards. But so far I think you can only WJC to MC in fourside, not enough to really call it a tech since its very situational. Oh well.

[UndrDog]

when did you come up with Wall Missling Jasona? havent told me about it yet... =(

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Hey I actually did put an informative post on this. Jasona said it was a theory. I found it interesting and tested it, plus I coined the name.

Please let me have some credit this time? I'm on my knees people. THe need for recognition and not infamy is overpowering.

The Wall Missleing i think should go to the missle cancel off the wall. I'm gonna find out if you can do that anywhere else.
The repeated missles off the wall as I pointed out doesn't work, its not a tech. Someone find out if wall missleing works anywhere else besides FourSide.

I think it would work well w/ Wall Tech Jumping.

Edit: Okay another place Wall Missleing could work. Peaches castle, off the central tower to one of the switch platforms. If you knocked them up u could jump, wall missle and send a missle across the upper platform, at the same time setting you up for an attack.

[UndrDog]

you get regognition from Jasona and I, we forgot your name and kept calling you "Crispy Chicken" during our conversation.

but yeah we do mention you from time to time, so people know about you dont worry. and your going to ChuDat's tourny eh? see ya there man!

(please take no offense, we just thought it was funny =P )

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Well my name is hard to say over and over lol just call me Krispy.
Amazing! No longer am I a nameless newb! BWahahaha! See u guys at ChuDat's hope to play both of you!

[UndrDog]

do you have any matches on DC++?

[ChRed2AKrisp]

crap it did it again, can't see my post. shyt this bothers me.

now its working. sorry but no, as you can see this comp is crap, and my parents don't want anything else onit. within the year i'll have my own comp and freedom.

[UndrDog]

I'll make Jasona bring his video capture device so that we can get some of ya!

[MLRS]

for jasona's basic idea, walljumping, then immediately double jumping and missling, then like screw attack back onto the level or something (i didn't exactly get how its supposed to work, but this is my guess) looks pretty useless, and if you didn't have to screw attack, then the missle would end up coming out at normal standing fire height about, so that would be useful. if you wanna use this to fire missles below the edge of the level, you're much better off just hopping off the edge, then double and triple jump back on. the 2nd idea i think, the using narrow pits to run off, walljump and smash missle at about good mc height, is actually quite fun. it would work on fourside, and mushroom kingdoms 1 and 2. would work in the crappy yoshi level with the spinny blocks too if all the blocks were currently spinning. the thing i don't like about this technique is it would be easy to punish, about as easy as a shorthop missle is, all they have to do is dash attack you before the missle actually comes out. you can get all sneaky and mix it up, like wall jump a little higher than usual and d air, or fall further than normal and do 3 walljumps, so it could be pretty useful. the peaches castle thing is so rediculously situational (especially since peaches castle is traditioinally banned) that its not even worth looking into.

[PhillCollins]

I wouldn't rag on the thread creator too much, it would have been a usefull thread if he didn't act like Mr. Wizard.

I do have a question:

I'm not using my throw, its doesn't seem to be a good idea against anyone who's not a novice. Though recently I was fighting some harder competition and effectivly used it multiple times. Was I too quick to disregard the throw or did I just get lucky a few time?

[UndrDog]

if your oppenent likes to tech alot the grapple dosnt miss as much anymore for some reason... hmm... hehe

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Yeah ur right MLRS. I was just trying to come up with situations. I thought of MK1&2 today, but got there first. I didn'tthink of the yosh level though. Probably the best level to do this is fourside cuz there are two sides to do it on. the right side is better cuz there isn't that crane platform. But in MK2 you could only do it on the lower, middle platform. THe sides are too high up. And in MK1you'd have to get rid of the weight platforms first, and it would be risky cuz its close to the floor of the level and if you mess up u might die.

Not many people play these levels in tourney's so I don't know how helpful it would be.
Any1 else come up with a stage that can be used in tourney's?

Edit# 2: Hyrule Castle but its banned.
BTW another thing to do is to Wall tech but don't jumpand MC whenu slide down

[PhillCollins]

Corneria mabye?

[ChRed2AKrisp]

thx phil,corneriaworks for the wall teching thing. Any other suggestions?

[Aftermath]

hmm... i'm wondering about this... you shoot a missile, going into the wall, and then wall jump after the animation finishes? I don't understand what krispy means when he says wall jump cancel, nothing is being canceled.

well, if that is indeed how it works, i see a couple flaws in it. first, the missile has no knockback so it would not send you into the wall, and the wall jump would send you much too far away to get back to the wall with anything besides bomb jumping, which puts you very low. Also, where would you set this up from? falling from the edge after wding onto it? or would it be just like go down to meteor, jump and wall jump to missile? i don't know, i'm very confused on what exactly you are trying to say here.

Also ChRed2AKrisp, you did not coin the name wall missiling, in your only post on it, you did not once say it, it was UndrDog who mentioned it first. don't try to get recognition for things you never said or did, it'll make you appear worse. And try not to post on your personal problems with your computer, no one cares.

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Numero uno, wall missling is the title of my post, in white. 2 the thing J asona was talking about, doing what you I said I pointed ut that the missle doesn't push you baack, like you said, and that the power beam full charged might have enuf to DI back then do a missle.
THat I said didn't work. Jasona also said it would be cool if u could missle cancel off the wall. that does work. I found what you could do with that, why to do it. I came up w/ a couple of places where it would work, and sum other people have been adding.
Jasona started a thread on WJCing in Melee Discussion. Basically WJC is jumping or doing u B after a certain point it will stop the jump. Any other ottacks can be formed later in the Jump and won't stop it just slow it down so you stop moving forward erlier. At least the missles do anyways. Its not truly WJCing, I shouldn't have called it that. Although doing the attack will stop the little flip after the WJ. I think bombs might be able to just stop u, but once again u can't use them as early as jump or u B.

What I thought would be pretty cool is if u could WJ then Bomb jumpback towards the wall come out of the ball WJ and do it again, climbing up ne wall. I tried testing it but I was losing more air than I gained. Either that or I wasn't BJing at te peak of the jump. Any one care to say why this shouldn't work(or should:D )?

[Aftermath]

fine then krisp, you did something, yay for you. Anyway, the bomb jumping thing does not work to climb the wall, if it did, it would be just another peach wallbomber, you lose a considerable amount of height on this, so it's not too helpful to use usually.

[D-Man]

Originally posted by Cap'n Crunch
Wow, i seriously doubt your knowledge D-man. so here's a question you should answer for me. Let's say cf dthrows me, whiwch way should i DI to get out of the knee? smash or tilt? also, should i tech, if so, which way? i usually prefer to go right, but my opponent will expect me to go left at the times when it seems important. Anyway, can i actually avoid the knee when i'm like around 70-110%? also, when i attempt to do the fair, uair, fair, sex kick combo, i don't know exactly when i should ff to keep it going as long as possible, any help on this would be appreciated.

Jasona, best practice is on level 9 bowser on FD. :)
Sorry everyone I been gone since my power has gone out but now I gotta study for exams and I have just aliitle time.
Capt' I would probally wouldn't DI (though I never have been in your situation I have played many Falcons my advice for you is to fast fall or air dogde.
I may not be a known player but I try my best to give anyone help who needs it. If you dont want to atleast hear me out watch Wes (since he is the higher player I will give him teh respect he deserves) But I only want to help.

[D-Man]

Originally posted by Cap'n Crunch
Wow, i seriously doubt your knowledge D-man. so here's a question you should answer for me. Let's say cf dthrows me, whiwch way should i DI to get out of the knee? smash or tilt? also, should i tech, if so, which way? i usually prefer to go right, but my opponent will expect me to go left at the times when it seems important. Anyway, can i actually avoid the knee when i'm like around 70-110%? also, when i attempt to do the fair, uair, fair, sex kick combo, i don't know exactly when i should ff to keep it going as long as possible, any help on this would be appreciated.

Jasona, best practice is on level 9 bowser on FD. :)

Okay now Capt' since if u do anything u will probally get a knee to the face I suggest u should lay a bomb. The bomb will keep him away if not he will run and it will explode on him making a perfect chance to recover from the Dthrow. The main thing is to lay the bomb close to him before he gets the running start or in the air before the knee.

[D-Man]

Originally posted by PhillCollins
I wouldn't rag on the thread creator too much, it would have been a usefull thread if he didn't act like Mr. Wizard.

I do have a question:

I'm not using my throw, its doesn't seem to be a good idea against anyone who's not a novice. Though recently I was fighting some harder competition and effectivly used it multiple times. Was I too quick to disregard the throw or did I just get lucky a few time?

This is really based on the opponent sometimes throwing is needed (in my case Dthrow to forward Smash)
But most times u shouldn't throw since the chain has horrible lag time and is only useful as a recovery. Your best bet if u must throw is a dash throw (since the chain is much shorter during a dash than just standing and doing it. But throwing to me is useless most times to Samus

[D-Man]

Originally posted by Jasona
I can't seem to perform the pillar of fire on anyone anymore. I have done it before, but since it is hard to do in a real match, I let it slide from memory. Now I want to pull it off but can't remember how to start it, even in practice mode. I need your help D-man.
I really dont do Pillar of Fire alot and its not really a easy move also so the best thing I can tell u is to just drop the move.
Its to hard and It will rarely go off.
I cant really think of a way to constintly get it off against everyone (even though I never dont it on everyone).
But this is only my opioion. Its up to u to use it.

[PhillCollins]

Ya'll know Cap'n's a Hater

[Aftermath]

yeah, but besides my post subject, your advice is wrong. If i were to ff, DI down, attempt to air dodge or lay a bomb, i'd get a knee and be off the edge. My best bet at higher percentages would be to smash Di up and away, falcon has the lowest chance of being able to knee me before i can do something.

The throw is useful, you just have to know when, throw it in at unexpected times instead of a ground attack, many times it's so unexpected the person will simply shield instead of jump or dodge. other times i can think of are after someone does a get up attack, that works sometimes, and running behind a missile is pretty good.

Jasona: don't give up your crazy bomb tricksies!!!11 I'm sure you'll eventually find something crazy about them or some weird glitches (no one would've figured out the swd if they gave up) and like make samus all shiek-like, so keep at it.

Anyway, i like this smily :retard:

AND THIS ONE :freak:

[D-Man]

If u think that I am wrong u can like I say I'm not telling anyone to do anything I am just saying what I would do.
Just like anyone else can.
I may not be a pro but I still enjoy just giving my opinion.

[Mabus]

You: Second person singluar pronoun, spelled Y-O-U.

Sometimes you find yourself getting a chance for a grab and its certainly not a thing to pass up with Samus. Consider that a d-throw followed by a charged blast does quite some damage. I usually use it once a match with Samus. Wavedash backwards when they're the opponent is performing a shffl'd attack. If they screw up the L-canceled, dash and grab quickly. I'll only grab like once a match with Samus though. D-throw seems to be the only one that is useful. There's some combo pential there, I guess.

I'm pretty interested in what could be done with the pillar of fire. I randomly drop a bomb and end up leading it into some sort of combo. It would be pretty sweet if someone could figure out an effective infinite combo thing for Samus. Freaking murder Sheik... and Mewtwo. You know that guy's bound to do something sneaky soon. He's so crappy he's got to be good!

This smily is pretty sweet, :dizzy:

[th3nd]

hey whats "SHFFMCing"

[Lxl]

ShortHopped-FastFall-Missle-Cancelling.

[D-Man]

SHFFMC is basically jumping then shooting a missle while fast falling.
There is no L-Cancel because aireal missles have no lag in them so trying to l-cancel is useless.
sorry this hasent been easy trying to get the time to get on.
I have so many things I have to do(school exams finding a job Chrismas shoping and alot of other things but after Chrismas I should be responding to more questions.)