Common samus techs

[Jasona]

I need a list of all the common samus techs I can find. So far, all I have is:
the super wavedash, the pillar of fire, the bomb recovery, the grapple into a bomb, missle canceling, the double missle ( missle cancel followed by a missle ), the third jump ( dodge and grapple beam ), and beam canceling.
Anything I missed?

[MLRS]

i think "the third jump" needs a new name since the third jump is actually screw attack. although, i really don't have the ****dest what it could be called. anyway, another easy technique is bomb kick, when they're right above you in air, you lay a bomb, it explodes them up and jumps you up, then you n air. 21 damage instead of the 14 just doing the n air woulda been.

[Inkslinger]

I'm not a samus player, so can someone explain these:
pillar of fire
beam cancel

[ChRed2AKrisp]

THe beam cancel. When you use the rising grapple tooclose to a stage I think. THe grapple animation is canceled and you tumble upwards.

And the pillar of fire. I'm pretty sure that's when you bomb right next to someone and the explosion allows you to lay another bomb which then xplodes, etc. The explosions cause both characters to ascend slowlyinto the air.

[MLRS]

the pillar of fire doesn't actually work that well, if you wanna see it working perfectly, do it to a lvl 9 bowser, but i'm quite certain the computer must be doing something stupid to make that work.

[HugS]

Dont know what to call it since you already used "double missle" but when you shoot 2 missles in the air in one full jump. You missed the homing grapple too.

[MLRS]

jasona and i came up with a secret technique that we're not gonna tell you about, because we're *******s. i hope to be able to master it by saturday so i can use it in a tourney and pwn some *****es, then some dude will come into this thread and tell everyone about this amazing new samus technique that whooped his ***, and i'll be like "yeah, that was me, i'm 1337" then i'll tell everybody about it and give jasona most of the credit cause hes the one that asked the question that made me try it in the first place. and samus will go up 8 tier places and the world will explode, the end.

[HugS]

And you're still gonna get 4th.

[Jasona]

I'm going to make a vid about samus and her abilities. I wanted to make a introductory section about common (errr... well known) samus skills (name taken from that vid wes and his friends made). I was going to spend about 2 seconds on each tech and call the section: 15 seconds of ****.

I will follow up with a few minutes of some new (at least to me) skills that are pretty advanced. Such as wavebombing and bomb dodging plus a few others I'm not mentioning. You can bet I suck at all of them, but I should finish before MLG DC and then I'll share it on the hub.

[MLRS]

GAH, this is too hard!!!! i think i'm gonna go ahead and give up on this sekret technique, jasona, should we tell em'? i guarantee none of you will be able to do it, i can only do it like 1/50 times

[Jasona]

So thats who you are! I can do it pretty consistantly at reduced speed in practice mode. That is one of the techs I'm going to include in my advanced section. SHFF missle canceling is super fast, super hard and super useful. Especially when coupled with the double missle thing.

Edit: my WDing sucks, so wavebombing is hard... my SHing sucks, so SHFFMCing is hard.... but I still come up with new stuff that I can't consistantly pull off. LOL

[ChRed2AKrisp]

ur not the only one to come up with that. I've been trying to get it down and it is hard. For some reason iyt won't fast fall, maybe im doing it to early. Sodon't think ur brilliant, or I am too.

Its a simple logical connection. If you can SHL, why can't you SHM? It's just alot harder w/ Samus and isn't nearly as fast cuz of her horible SH and floatiness.

ANd you can't do two missles in one jump. You can only two power beams or a power beam and then a missle(for canceling).

[aho43]

You can do two missiles in 1 jump, and he means short hop, fast fall them missile cancel. Not fire a missile and try to fast fall. PWN.

[UndrDog]

ANd you can't do two missles in one jump. You can only two power beams or a power beam and then a missle(for canceling).

of course you can. Jasona and I have been doing it alot. it isnt really that hard once you get the timing down. I first did it shortly after Jasona showed me. cant do it consistantly but it can be down. and I'm sure it can be easily mastered.

and Jasona I can do SHFFMCing in 1/4 speed! yay! (only was able to do it once though... :( )

[Jasona]

The reason why I and MLRS thought that the idea was original was because noone belived it could be done (anyone I asked). Although, if they thought that it couldn't be done, then they would have had to think of it and fail at performing it. The two missles in a jump can easily be done with a good bit of leniency in timing, the only point to remember is to get the first missle in as early as possible to make the second more forgivable.

EDIT --- the SHM is useful if you do it after the two missles in one jump... LOL would this be good to put into the samus vid: walk off the edge of a level firing missles, then wall jump cancel into a jump twice, land and repeat (you can also substitute the second jump for a up+b if things go bad... but it is not a tech

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Originally posted by aho43
You can do two missiles in 1 jump, and he means short hop, fast fall them missile cancel. Not fire a missile and try to fast fall. PWN.

So I did it in the wrong order. So sue me. It's the same concept though.

If doing it continuously would the rate of fire be worse better or the same a normal stream of missles? If better orthe same it would have many of the same uses and properties as the SHL. If worse it should only be used to get in one or two missles wuth immediate reaction time afterwards.

[UndrDog]

either way, if this could be mastered then Samus would easily become one of the most played characters in the game. perhaps even wander up to top tier. I honestly hope it dosnt... sigh, I have to try and practice with Jasona. very painful.

[Aftermath]

I don't think she would go that much higher in the tiers simply for shffm and double missile, but possibly a bit for wavebombing.

CHRed2AKrisp, Jasona is brilliant, you are not, he has in the past month, come up with a whole new technique, possibly an infinte, or a semi to a very high percent, and brought to light many lesser known techniques and argued their importance, i think now more samus players are looking to him for new techs and how to do the current ones than many others. Also, he can do the shffm (pretty consisently or something), he has known about it longer than you, and you currently do not know whether or not it wopuld be faster or slower than the ground fire. btw, it would be slightly slower, but well worth it since there is no lag afterwards.

Meanwhile, you have made a useless thread on how to swd, when there were about 3 on the page with something of the same title, done nothing but prove your ineptness, and tell me not to flame people that make threads like you did. Also, the logical connection that if you can shl, you can shm, is that you may not be able to because of the varying lag between a MISSILE and a LASER, the time from when samus can start ffing to when she hits the ground may be less than the time it takes for a missile to come out, thus making the technique impossible. Fortunately, with fast hands, you can shffm, but it is very close, a huge contrast to the ease with which the shl can be done. Also, even if the shm had a much slower firing rate from the ground missile, like fox's or faclo's to a lesser extent, people will still use it because they can MOVE while doing it. Another thing on your post, how would it have amny of the same properties as the shb? because the missiles are much slower, do not go as far, can be blocked more easily, dodged more easily, and more approachable than a falco shb?

Also, i'd like to say that while i said you are inept and Jasona is brilliant and inventive, i think of myself as just some scrubby samus. I may come off as mre intelligent by how arrogant i am online, so don't confuse the two by me sounding all high and mighty on this post.

Also, i envy you jasona, you got like 3 samuses that you play against, i doubt there are 3 competent ones in all of oregon, so far i've seen 2, myself included, only because i can wd.... into roll...

[Jasona]

I've never found, or looked very hard for, frame data on missle canceling, but because of my experience I think it adds leniency to the SHFFMC. I have no proof, but with some luck and sheer gullibility I could pull off SHFFMCing with homing missles... that would count as proof. They would have to be fired from below the stage if it worked at all.
Using a normal jump FFMC, you can fire as fast or faster than someone who just stands still and fires missles. If you add in a double missle every time you land, then samus can easily out do them.

[ChRed2AKrisp]

One, yes he has made many new techs and I congrajulate him. Two Maybe he thought of it before I did, I'm just saying he wasn't the only one to come up with it. I've only been practicing it a couple weeks.
Three, I haven't ever started a thread on the SWD. I did make a couple posts in an SWD thread which you did respond to, and I thank you for that. I think I just wasn't smash the stick fast enough, I can get like in one out of three tries now.
Idid make two stupid, crap threads when I was new to Samus and the Forums, I went post happy and didn't think to search.

And about the firing rate. Doing a normal short happy missle w/o fastfalling isn't too much slower than your naormal rate, so and I tested shorthopping Samus and FF at the peak of her jump multiple times, I think it might have an equal or slightly faster firing rate. If it is faster its not significant though, maybe like 11 missles in the time of normal ten missles, but no one i've watched or plyed ever spams that many in a row. It just justifies using the SHFFMC as opposed to normal missles.

And the l0ogical connection thing is just a connection of if you can SHL why can't you SH any projectile? Its a theory. So, as with all theories you attempt to prove it. One could be wrong like you pointed out. Once I come with an idea inm something that can be tested over and over with little or no consequences like SSBM I'd rather teast it than sit around debating why orwhy not. Maybe if its something obvious I won't bother.

And about the SHL, I was just to lazy to type out that you could move with missle and act immediately afterwards. Those are two of the reasons for the SHL. Of course you can't really interrupt attacks with an SHM, but oh well. Samus's SHM however b/c of its slow firing would allow you to SHM, fire another missle to have 2 closely spaced missles coming in at the same time, keeping them busy while you run in. That's the man point in having a slowfiring missle, so you can advance retreat or get in some chargeon the power beam while he's busy dodging ur missle.
ANd when I said I was brilliant if he was I was joking around about one tech. Don't take things so seriously. Jasona's probably a much better Samus player than I am. Then again I'm no judge of my own skills. The only peope I have to judge against arein the MD/VA area, so I might be relatively better than I think I am. I'll find out at MLG rather than just local tourneys.

And who said you sounded all high and mighty? All you did was flame that's not that hard.

[HugS]

Yeah crisp, but you still told me that i couldn't do 2 missles in one jump. So you just screwed over all your credibility on that one :). Thank you jasona, for making new tech, and for hosting all the samus vids on the hub. You my friend....own.

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Hey sorry I just remembered that there wuz a thread on that and I though sum1 said you couldn't. Oh well. But I do thank Jasona and MLRS for all the specs in the other thread. ANd in case you haven't noticed I just joined in Nov, so its not like I had much to begin with.

[ChRed2AKrisp]

W/e, in case you haven't noticed I just bcame a member Nov, so its not like I have credibility to lose. If I do well in the next three, uh two tournaments(MLG) make that one since I'm going to BOMB(Best of Marlyand's best) forget it I may get like 20th in Chu dat's tourney. Okay if I beat sum1 in su tourney and they tell someone on the forums in a post I might get some cred. Of course getting 20th is hopeful at best.

****, WTF? I posted that first post and when I came back it wasn't showing up no matter what I did, so I made the next post, upon which the first one showed again.
That's it. I'm screwed, I'll never get any respect. I guess I'll just be everyone's punching bag. I'm here to be flamed, mistreated, abused, w/e. Go ahead Cap'n Crunch I'm waiting for you to completely tear apart the earlier post.

[Jasona]

All this love and hate over me... *violent sobbing* I'm so happy...I think I'll start a cult with the motto "LOVE ME!... or love my work".

I don't know about the firing rates of missles, but I will eventually devote some time to it. Everything I said about it was mostly an educated guess. Although a small increase in speed could do wonders to my samus game, which I don't really have because my samus left Undr in denial (samus does suck, it is just not obvious when I play) and now I can't play as samus against him (ever). I forgotten more stuff about samus then any of you MAY ever know... in two months. Samus is like a really good glass of water... (inside joke with Undr) you drink it and look for some place to refill it, but the water never tastes the same, even from the same source (to me it will always be a different glass of water, a sip from the same glass is never the same, but thats just if you have a taste for water)

EDIT: I could really go for a good glass of water Undr... let me drink the water, please. I'm tired of you giving coke (DK) and sprite (bowser), it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Well then at least MLRS posted the specs on frames. I hope somepeople start posting on that thread, a new tech should attract several people.

[UndrDog]

EDIT: I could really go for a good glass of water Undr... let me drink the water, please. I'm tired of you giving coke (DK) and sprite (bowser), it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

how can I practice Peach or Ice Climbers versus your Samus!!!!


I don't think she would go that much higher in the tiers simply for shffm and double missile, but possibly a bit for wavebombing.

hehe, I was refering to that too.

[MLRS]

i wanna be president of the jasona fan club. and what do you mean coke has a bad aftertaste? coke is fantastic, theres nothing bad (tastewise) about coke!! you take it back!

[UndrDog]

he prefers to drink water aside from soda. and that while he majors in Samus, while I was learning new characters that dont like missles in thier faces, he transfered to DK and Bowser. yeah, so thats the story.

[MLRS]

i'm almost absolutely certian wavebombing is not an infinite, even against a wall. i tested it on bowser in 1/4 speed, got it going steady than had my brother try to get out of it, i'm pretty sure he was able to do just a neutral a or put up his shield, i'm certain he was able to simply walk out of it when i was trying it. its just too slow, and the stun from bomb isn't long enough. sorry to crush everyone's hopes.

[Jasona]

Think about how fast you start to WD after the bomb explodes, then try to be faster. I have started practicing it, so i should have more of an opinion of it later.

[UndrDog]

even if it isnt considered an infi would it be able to hold someone in thier sheild? you know how some moves keep people stuck in thier sheilds for a few frames. could you do this to someone next to a wall and get them stuck in thier sheild? yeah I doubt that you could make a sheild breaker, but you could make it small enough to bust through it. I dunno, just a thought.

[StoneColdLink]

Originally posted by Jasona
I need a list of all the common samus techs I can find. So far, all I have is:
the super wavedash, the pillar of fire, the bomb recovery, the grapple into a bomb, missle canceling, the double missle ( missle cancel followed by a missle ), the third jump ( dodge and grapple beam ), and beam canceling.
Anything I missed?

Ok, as a new Samus player, I know how to do SWD, bomb recovery, missle canceling, and third jump. What i dont know how to do is what i didnt list above Pillar of Fire, grapple into a bomb, double missle and beam canceling. Please give me some tips on how to do these techs.

[Jasona]

beam canceling is doing the third jump next to a wall (play with it until you get the specifics). The double missle is firing a missle after you missle cancel. Grappling into a bomb is replaceing the second bomb in a bomb recovery with a dodge and a grapple (play with it until you get the specifics). I haven't been able to pull off the pillar of fire recently, so you should wait for an answer from somebody else.

[UndrDog]

Pillar of Fire is really hard to do versus a human. you should practice against a LvL9 DK and try it while under him as he is recovering.

[The Cape]

I am happy to say that I have managed to pull off Jasona's technique wavebombing (slowly) about 6 times in a row. I have a video that is shared on the hub under TheCape, in the SSB folder label Wavebombing. Check it out if you like. If you cant connect to me, you may ask for it from me on AIM at thecape77.

Good job Jasona

[maelstrom218]

Holy crap. . .

Props to The Cape for making that wavebombing vid, and to Jasona for coming up w/this idea. Regardless of whether or not this is an infinite, it has huge potential in terms of just being unpredictable. Add one more crazy technique to Samus' already hefty bag o' tricks.

I suggest that anyone who has trouble pulling off wavebombing watch The Cape's vid. . .bomb to wavedash is so much faster than I thought it would be.

[Aftermath]

well, it may appear to be fast, but if you look at the frames in terms of lag for you and your opponent, it's not all that amazing.

Now, just to say, i got all these frames a long time ago and never wrote them down, so i'm not sure if i remember all of them correctly, so post objections if you have any.

when you hit an opponent with the wavebomb, your lag is the lag from the bomb startup, 10, the time between when the bomb explodes and pushes you, allowing you to do something, i don't know this, it's probably a few frames, but let's just call it 0. The last thing that adds lag is the wd, i'm not going to count startup or time it takes to get to the ground or anything, but just the landing lag is something like 8 or 10 or something. ok, so in order to wavebomb, you have the initial 10, plus a minimum of about 18 frames to hit tham again.

on the other hand, the lag of the opponent is only the stun from the bomb, plus possibly if they try to do an attack, but let's say they just sheild, which is a 1 frame startup. now their lag is at max 5 or so, but if they're in the air they might get some more, let's just add a couple frames. so they have like 8-10 frames of lag max.

as you can see, your lag is much greater than that of the oponent, resulting in a non-infinite. and is most likely impossible to even get a combo, even on training. in a fight however, it could be a surprise tactic and possibly do some good. Although, the main point of my post was to show that samus players' efforts could be focused on something more worthwhile than trying to combo this, becaues if you look at the frames, it just doesn't work out.

TheCape, your video was very good, and is a good example of how to do it fairly well across FD. It also shows how even though it seems fast to many people, it still does not combo.

[Jasona]

Originally posted by maelstrom218
I suggest that anyone who has trouble pulling off wavebombing watch The Cape's vid. . .bomb to wavedash is so much faster than I thought it would be.

It can be done much faster than The Cape performed it in the vid

@Cap'n --- you forgot to consider the stun of the bomb. Also, the sooner you WD after the bomb explodes, the fewer the frames wasted doing nothing and the closer to the ground you will be, which makes the WD take less time to connect with the ground.

[The Cape]

I think people missed me saying that I did this SLOWLY!

[UndrDog]

think of it like Fox's shine combo. its only applicable when done fast, but hard to teach yourself to do it.