Peach's Potential

[vidjogamer]

Alright, as the most well known peach player in my region, hopefully this has some authority to it....

anyway, a lot of people think "cheap" when you say "peach"

while in a n00bs hands, against a n00b, i totally agree, peach has the upper hand,... but not because shes cheap, shes not, the players are just ignorant, but from the players perspective she is cheap

in the hands of an expert however, i believe she is the hardest character to master. There is so much more to her than any other character, people just fail to realize this.

now, i believe that we are no where near peach's full potential, even the top peach players in the country.
and i would like for us to uncover the secrets of this character.

now i realize i lost half of you by now, you either think "hes a n00b" or "hes retarded", but for those of you who consider this, continue to read on.

consider things you havent before, peach has many options, and is very unique, so lets improve upon what we already know.

and make her what she is meant to be...

[Watashiwa]

I am right now making a huge change....im going from samus to peach...i just like peaches moves more than samus, and plus well in the eyes of new players to ssbm they think peach sucks im going to use the cool looking guys Marth and Roy.
I don't know much about her but it would be very useful to hear some good tips. Turnups are veryuseful in edge guarding i know that...there is a slight chance the turnup, when it hits someone, will be powerful as a smashattack and i know she can pull out a bomb once, a beam sword once, and two mr.saturns.

[Quetzalcoatl]

can you give us a bit of direction as to what to discuss?

[Yuna]

Concerning how to become better with Peach: Read the newbie guides, combo setups and other topics whose titles reveal discussion about how to play as Peach. It should give you a decent amount of techs to start out with.

Concerning the "Smash turnip". It's official name is the Grandfather Turnip, although its popular name is Stitchface.

About what to discuss: Yeah... I'm wondering that too. I don't know if she's the hardest to master, but I'll say she's one of the hardest.

[RyokoYaksa]

As long as people know what the turnip is, no one cares what it's called. I've heard it called death turnip, master turnip, damage cabbage, stitchface, grandpa turnip, zombie turnip, etc. Other than that, I have no idea what we're supposed to discuss.

[Quetzalcoatl]

lol damage cabbage

[Shadows]

Isnt the "Damage Cabbage" called the Ubber Beat..?

[EVIL_Peach18]

I call it the "Evil Turnip". That's how I got my name an all. ^_^

[stilettotrap]

If you're talking about Peach's potential in terms of technical skill, I really don't think there's much left to discover about her. I'd say our better Peach players (namely Mike G/Sas/Ryoko) have already uncovered most of the little tricks to her game. Once you can (technically speaking) play remotely like the top Peach players, the only real way to get better is to improve your mindgames and learn to break old habits. If you always dsmash as a follow-up to a blocked fc aerial, people are going to figure it out and start light shielding or rolling away, so you'll want to mix in dash attacks and slaps and grabs. Stuff like that.

I don't see the point of this topic either ._.

[EVIL_Peach18]

Hey! you forgot Vidjo! he's like the best one out of all of us!!


This guy....>_>

[RyokoYaksa]

I still have a lot of room for improvement, you know.

1. My mind games are lacking compared to Mike G's.
2. I can't consistently beat a wide range of people due to lack of exp
3. I still can't get the priority on some of Peach's moves or her really intricate techs (like DJL and Shield-JC)
4. Samus

That's just icing on the cake, really... x_x

[TiRune]

Got 3rd at 1 vs 1, and 1st in teams just now @ one of the largest ssbm events in the netherlands. Cause the european top lives in the netherlands that means 3rd of europe as well :P. Nyways, I solely did it with peach, I beat my way trough a load of marths and fox', but somehow I managed (even pulled off a win against Remen, europes best BY FAR player and what you people think is the best Marth player here: Rune(3-0 2stocked him ^^)). IMO, the only thing I'm sure I need improvement on is being faster, although this might seem rather impossible witb peach, I've got the idea Peach can be way faster then what I've seen from anyone :P.
And some practice against a ganondorf should help also since MrSilver's ganon beat me (pretty close though) his mind-games > my mind games, so I might have to improve them also.

Nyways, the creator of this topic thinks (just like me) that Peach can be SO much better then everything we've seen so far. we might be close to achieving a top peach, but there are still a few things missing so it seems >.>....
nyways, I'm gonna keep up the good work and be 1st at DT10 here in the netherlands (equivalent to the european championships :P)

[Yuna]

Maybe not A LOT better, but she can definately be played better (not to say that the top Peaches out there aren't amazing). I'm sure she can kick Falco off of 4th place and possibly reach Top Tier by her and Fox downgrading Marth as well.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Congrats TiRune! I've been drifting in and out of the LT6 thread to see how you had gone, congrats on your victory over remen, but what happened in the second match? ah well, if you've beat him once, you can do it again, and lets hope its in DT10 where we can see Peach take top place in Europe. If I can come out on top at Australia's Feb tourney: @M, Peach will be the ruler of PALdom hehehe. Good Luck!

For the record, I call it the stitchface, but it usually gets shortened to 'the stitch' when playing with friends and such.

I think DJL is really the final step to mastering peach. I doubt anything major could come along that would be as difficult and useful to perform. But none of us have been able to do this technique so consisitently in battle so who knows how far DJL could take peach's game! I feel like going and practicing it now hehe

[Smashbros]

I think we could all learn a lot from the japanese peach players. They have a different style of play and seem to integrate more techniques into their game. Mikaeru espescially, notice how he uses his turnips differently against different characters for example.

[TiRune]

Thnx quetz ^^, I won pretty easily against remen the first time, and the first round of the 2nd time also. but then he started to play all flashy and integrated mind games into his play (He normally doesn't use much of em). It was like Goku turning Super Sayain or something, I wasn't able to keep up with his speed so I lost >.>.
DJX is definately the last step towards mastering peach, One of the hardest techniques to pull off consistently also. I'm sure some peaches will be able 2 though, I sparcely use it already and it's really helpfull. I juggled some fast faller at the tournament (fox/falco, dont recall which) with the u-air like that (short hop, l-cancled djced u-air's) which was really cool 2 see (wasn't djc on the spot, but who cares :P). Other then that, like I stated, the general speed of peach can be higher. But I'll get back to you all when I actually improved it and know what I'm talking about :P.

Nyways, I watched vids of Mikaeru's peach on CJs site. He did some nifty stuff I would never do, but then again, I do a lot of stuff he did way better as well. I don't think peaches there are better then the ones in america/australia/europe, mayb a bit more adjusted to their metagame where a lot of flashy stuff is required. I didn't see him do anything that's really different from our peaches, and his mind games were even worse then what I know a peach can have (mikeG, ryoko, quetz, perhaps even me). On top of that, he didn't use his turnips well at all. He just spammed them like no tommorow, something that doesnt work in skilled matches. If I were to do that I couldn't hit anyone in europe tournaments (well, mayb the skilless n00bs ^^).

What I usually do on tournaments is pretty easy. I have my base tactic that I've been using all these years and which I use when I'm not paying attention. If for example a sheik or fox sees me float into moves every time, he'll predict something against it. I overly spam moves till he does something against it, then I switch my own tactic so I can get free hits in. The same goes with turnip spamming, I start with normal throwing, if the turnip is deflected/caped/clash canceled, I use a floated or short hopped moves first and then throw the turnip. This requires a whole lot of experience and lots of attention while playing though but it really works for me. I haven't seen Mikaeru use any of such mind games that he predicts the opponents next move. What I've seen in the videos he kept using the same strategy = poor mind games.

[Umbreon]

ryoko I think the difference between you and mike g is the comparison between flashy and fast. You can have one without the other and still be effective either way.

Peach is like Fox. Loads of depth and 98% of it is useless.

[Smashbros]

Dont be fooled if you weren't impressed by mikaeru. top 4 in Japan says enough in itself.

i certainly saw him doing things that i haven't seen from other peaches.

[TiRune]

Originally posted by Smashbros
Dont be fooled if you weren't impressed by mikaeru. top 4 in Japan says enough in itself.

i certainly saw him doing things that i haven't seen from other peaches.

I can say he's a very good peach, but no, sorry, I wasn't impressed at all.
some things he did were 'different', not 'better'. In some situations he even made repetetive mistakes.

[Smashbros]

How can you say he's a very good Peach and not be impressed by him ? He's possibly the best Peach there is and dont forget he was playing against some of the best players in the world.

[TiRune]

Originally posted by Smashbros
How can you say he's a very good Peach and not be impressed by him ?

pretty ez, Hes a good peach but I don't c him do stuff all other peach' couldn't do. Judging from vids, I think MikeG is better for example.

[stilettotrap]

Mindgames were lovely, but technically speaking, Mikael doesn't do anything incredibly out of the ordinary. But yeah, Peach doesn't really need to play flashy to be effective...

[Yuna]

Mikaeru is definately "Up there", but I don't think he's necessarily the best either. Possible Top5. Sastopher's supposedly become incredible, working his way well to the top, but he hasn't got many vids up, so I don't know >_>'.

And then there's a whole bunch of supposedly incredible peaches whose videos elude me.

[EVIL_Peach18]

No one should ever doubt Mikael sensei's skillz! Vids in general really can't show a player's true skill like mindgames etc. It mostly shows what techs and tricks they are using. >______>

[TiRune]

angel, u could check my only vid on the hub if u want 2. I'd love to have comment of urs on how I play ^^.

(check in the peach' thread on top, the exact name is in it ;)

problem is with peach, that almost everyone can do everything peach does. Skillz with peach lies in mind games and experience. This is very hard to capture in vids so real good peach players might not even look very good in vids...
at least, that's what I guess most peach players would use as an argument :P

[EVIL_Peach18]

what he said.

[flagitious]

<------ is inspired now thanks vidjo.

i just got an action replay hopefully i can figure something new and cool out now.

btw i call it the special turnip, and the one with dotted eyes the semi special turnip.

there hasn't been much discussion about techniques yet so ill try my best. what do you guys think of this method for ledge guarding when they are coming in from pretty far below (but not so low edge hogging would be fullproof), i havent had a chance to try it in a real match yet: float right next to the ledge facing it. this way you can grab the ledge when the time is right, then using your 37 frames of invincibility drop off and bair them. definitly nothing breakthru, maybe not even useful.

[Yuna]

Similar to what I would do... only if I were to do that, I would actually float at about the same level as the ledge. If their recoveries go over my head, I'll 2nd jump into an nair, otherwise, bair or edgehog.

Anyway, I noticed a good tactic against Sheik (if you're at low %s, that means below 100), you edgehog and then start getting up once the Sheik has recovered, then when they recover, you'll KNOW where they'll appear on the stage or on a platform. If it's on a platform, nair them. If they appear on the stage, dashgrab them and bair them. If they're high up enough in %s, repeat.

Do this 'til you can surprise fthrow them to death. Of course, during any of these edgehogs, the Sheik mitht get a lucky break and make it to the edge, but if you time it right, it's impossible to do this.

[Mikey Lenetia]

Here is something for you to do at the edge and the opponent is recovering. Edgehog, making sure that they'll have to go for the stage itself. Then, when they're recovering, climb up behind them and down smash them out. Rinse, repeat. This can be an absolute bane to characters like Sheik and Marth(though with Marth, it's best to try and hit him with a turnip), who don't have much choice but to either edgehog or make a last gasp by landing right by the edge. It also works for Ganondorf and Captain Falcon, since they can't grab you out of hanging onto the edge(at least, it never happened to me).

[UndrDog]

that'll work once or twice, so thats good. but they will start air dodging eventually. but yeah, still good advice to do once or twice. ( I rhymed, yay! )

[Mikey Lenetia]

Not just once or twice. If they're far off the stage and go for the edgegrab, you can force it on them. Eventually it'll kill 'em, and there's nothing they can do about it. You just have to time your movements right, but once you get it, they're done. Don't rely on it, though, because you have to get enough damage ON them for it to be a valid technique.

[vidjogamer]

Originally posted by Mikey Lenetia
Not just once or twice. If they're far off the stage and go for the edgegrab, you can force it on them. Eventually it'll kill 'em, and there's nothing they can do about it. You just have to time your movements right, but once you get it, they're done. Don't rely on it, though, because you have to get enough damage ON them for it to be a valid technique.


^ its true.

[Yuna]

The thing with the edgehog into dsmash thing is that you can see if they'll have to up+b or airdodge to recover.

With Sheik, I nowadays use this strat: Edgehog into chainthrow bthrow 'til you see that it's too far away from the edge to work. Then dsmash.

[Wife]

After reading everything, I'd like to contribute:

1. Who would want vids of them doing all of their best stuff on the internet? Only vids of me are crappy cuz I'd rather win respect from a win at a tourny then from ppl downloading my videos in their basement. Can't have people learning your tricks.
So you can't judge by vids

2. MOWs point has merit in that Peach may have much potential, and that's cool, but you have to play to win. A lot of times the same old moves prove to be most effective.

3. Peach is a mind games character.

4. I'll peach ditto anyone for money. I can meet u at some tourny, somewhere. You could come to Team Ben's big one this June, and plus we travel a lot.

[Mikey Lenetia]

I'll have to make sure the MI crew goes to that tourney, then. I'd love to do some friendlies with you, Wife, but aside from that, I don't know if I'd be able to ditto you. I have very little experience in that area, since I'm the only real Peach player up here. -_-