picking up the ICs

[Powda193]

ive messed around with the ICs some, but never thought i was very good with them. then i busted them out on some of my friends and BEAT SOME ***!! now i would like to try to make them one of my mains. unfortunately, there is very little material on this complex character. i read someone is working on a guide, im eager to see that, but until then... maybe we can talk about some stuff here.... ill try to get it started.

1. most the time i desynch it is unintentional, but i take advantage of it when it happens. edge-hogging seems to be an easy way to desynch. what are some other good ways? can u KEEP them desynched in any way besides just running from nana?
2. when i grab, i just have nana ftilt as i headbutt... this racks up damage well, but im sure there are other options. what all can nana do during a grab? can i f/d smash? what can u do as a move without causing popo to throw the person? also, whats a good way for nana to grab, and is it worth it?
3. if u desynch, its inevitable that u will be fighting without your b itch (i mean that in a good way =P) what are your options at this point?
4. the ice blocks: ive heard people say that its a really bad projectile. but when there are two blocks i kinda like it, what do u all think? any good ice block setups?

well, thats a good start... hopefully a few people will come in here to get the thread goin

[Good Samurai]

I had the same situation as you. I played the IC's randomly against my friends sheik, DR, and falco, and had a good amount of success. I'm no expert, but I'll try to give you some help if you can give me some.

When you grab someone, Nana can D-Smash as Popo headbutts if you use the c-stick. This, into a downthrow as Nana D-Smashs, has been useful for me to get some damage. popo will always throw the person unless he is headbutting. So, to rack up a combo, you must alternate headbutts and D-smashes quickly. I don't know a way for Nana to grab the opponent, but she did it for me when I attempted a running grab. I ran past the opponent ( and fell off the stage), but she grabbed and threw off. I recovered, and the opponent died. I haven't tried to find a way to pull this off purposely, or experimented to see if its useful, but it was here. Maybe you could fake a grab with Popo and have Nana do the real grab?

When my secondary dies, I usually just keep fighting pretty normally. I don't f smash as much (less power/knock with only one), I don't grab unless I'm given the open opportunity, and I play slightly more defensively. Generally, I've found a shffl'd D air is useful to start an attack, and then a D smash to knock back offensive opponents. Basically, I try not to worry about it, and just
try to deal damage before I get killed.

In my opinion, the Icicles are useful if they are used like DR's pills. jumping and shooting them not only adds protection from jumping opponents, but stops opponents on the ground. also, it lets you attack with an air attack (I like the F air, but I've learned to time it). The Icicles can deal damage, and allow you to control which way the opponent will attack from. I haven't found a good way for the ICs to stop an opponent that is attacking from above, so its much better to use Icicles in the air or on a higher platform.

Do you know any way to attack an opponent that is falling on you?
Also, what are some good Wavedashing startegies with the IC's? I've tried to wavesmash the D smash, but it hasn't worked. I wavedash, but uusually I am hit before the smash comes out. Can someone explain the correct timing/ procedure to do this?

[uwantsumshrimp]

sidestep, nana ice block, dash+jcg with popo works really well for me. Nana can sh d or u aerials to make chain grabbing possible for popo after d or u throws. Down B is a great attack for Nana to do while you've got them grabbed as well. Throw forward near the edge/sh fair with nana= throw spike. Thats all I can think for now. Oh, shuffled nair's go straight into dsmash or grab, a good option when you're down to 1 climber.

[CORY]

easiest desynch method is dodge-a move.

easiest followups are icebreath shield and ice block. more followups are charging smashes and utilts. desynh-nana charge fsmash and walk away from the opponent; she'll slide along just behind you and if the opponent doesn't space properly or just doesn't expect it, they eat a sliding fsmash.

from grabs, you can tap a to make popo headbutt, then, during the animation, hit downb to make nana icebreath, then headbutt again, then carry on. from a throw you can do fthrow-slightly charged fsmash with nana for a really good launcher/finisher. against fast fallers at low damage you can do fthrow-dashattack with nana to pop them back up and usually back into you for an attack (but i'd highly highly recommend dair chain infinite over this on fast fallers, namely fox and falco). against lighter characters, especially if they decide not to di, you can dthrow-spike-grab-repeat infinite. only works up to marth weight, though, and di breaks it easily.

dthrow-spike-smash (f/d) is good, too, and if you can call their di you can wd/run into them and hit them regardless. and even if you don't get to smash them, it still does pretty decent damage (around 15-ish, i think?).

blargh, that's all i got right now... i suck at this stuff now, my fingers don't move properly anymore.

[Hoefler]

I'm happy to say that I've become part of the IC user family and frankly, I feel great.

I simply just love sitting there, headbutting, as nana charges a fsmash for hella damage.

IMO: They aren't that hard to pick up/love, but they are completely dependednt upon grabbing, or something...

[Powda193]

could u all give a llittle more detail on the grabs? how do u get nana to charge a fsmash while u are headbutting? it seems like whenever i try something like this, popo throws the guy before nana can do anything.

[CORY]

you'd need to input nana's command as popo's doing the headbutt, otherwise he'll throw. and you're better off not trying to smash them out of your hands; it's better to time the smash to hit right as or right after they leave your hands from the fthrow.

[Powda193]

thanks a lot cory, that helps a lot.

so how important is de-synching? and what do u all think of the fair?
also, i just dont understand very well how to control nana. if you popo is doing a move, does that give u free time to control nana and do anything u wish? for example, if popo is rolling back on the edge and nana is already standing there, can i make nana jump and do a dair while popo is rolling? i need to practice a whole lot...i just picked them up... but im just lookin for some starting points.
thanks

[CORY]

nana won't respond to input if you're on the edge until you're out of your ledge animation. grabbing the ledge also breaks your control over her and she goes inert again.

there are only certain things that can desynch nana, the easiest is the dodge desynch. you can also jump, then jump immediately, which leaves nana on the ground, but it's rather tricky timing so not too used. i think philly knows another way that's more advanced too, but i don't remember it and dodge desynch is my bread and butter.

the fair is alright, pretty average. it's rather slow and has low priority, but there are two of them which means if you time it right on an opponent, you can spike-knock them back into the ground, which can be cancelled into a double dsmash. that alone, right there, double spike-double dsmash- is worth about 40 or so damage. if you're lucky you can follow them up and get it again, usually closer to the edge, and closer to their death. as a spike, in its own right, it's meh, slow and low priority. with nana helping do stuff, it's pretty nifty.

[UndrDog]

I picked the Icees up due to thier grabbiness and for a while I loved them. my only problem is, what do you do when you only means of non-computer practice is a Samus... Nana's lag makes it hard for me to dodge the missle and then try to make an advance on Samus. and when I try to Nana gets a face full of missle. any suggestions?

[Powda193]

i saw a thread earlier about ducking missles and reflecting missiles... perhaps IC can just duck the missiles?

other than that i guess i would suggest just staying in samus's face. the icicles wont do ****.... u might have to beat her in the air.

i dont really know tho, i just picked the ICs up B)

[Hoefler]

Try fighting back with icicle spam and advancing all in the same stroke, at least that's how I usually do it.

[UndrDog]

I'm starting to get better, but he is faster then I am with the projectiles. He just missle cancels and sends two. or he will send one to high for my ice blocks but right at my head. and jumping only gets me smacked by missles when he shoots two missles in one jump. I'll keep practicing but if anyone has any ideas please post. LoL.

[gore]

Yeah, I'm working on a guide but it's very slow progress due to my laziness :( . I will also put out a video after MOAST 3 (can't reveal all my tricks before I go to a major tourney :p ) I wish I could share some tricks here but I'm pressed for time.

BTW, it's really good to see so many people interested in ics. I thought Cory, ChuDat, and myself were the only ones.