ArC_man
12-01-2004, 10:18 PM
I'm sorta bored right now so I'm gonna start a new thread, hopefully we can get a good discussion going on.
Anyways, I stole this idea from srk, where people would present videos of themselves (or people would just give videos) and then have skilled players break the videos down bit by bit showing what was done good, and what was not. I think it's a lot easier for people to learn when they have a tangible reference. When you can SEE what's wrong and what's right, it becomes a lot easier to learn what to do when, etc (an example was when starcraft enabled replays; there was an immediate influx of improved people who spent their time watching hundreds of replays). Since there're a lot more Roy videos than before (especially with CJ's site coming out with a bunch from masashi), I figured, "why not try it?"
Note: these are all MY opinions of what was done right and what was done wrong, feel free to disagree (infact I encourage that, so we can get a discussion going). Also note that I'm trying to apply theory to actual game situations. Even the best player won't make the *perfect* choice every single time. I'm just trying to save my own ***, cause I'm most definitely NOT the best roy user, not even in my city/state (**** ken >_>).
I think the 1st video we should discuss is Masashi's Roy vs CJ's DK (#47 on CJ's website). Some people were shocked that masashi's "godly" roy lost to cj's "godly" dk and came to the conclusion that DK > Roy, which IMHO is untrue. Roy can combo DK like crazy as well as edgeguard DK easily. Anyways, here's my analysis (i'm gonna pick some specific instances from the video as well as have a overall summary at the end) :
00:06: Masashi immediately starts off with an AERIAL attack, which CJ CC's and goes into w/e. Why would Roy, a char who dies to CC want to start off with one of his most CC-able attacks? I think the match would be better started with an attempt to throw, etc
00:09: I think it was rather *dangerous* of masashi to just jump straight into DK at this point. A better solution, at this point, would be to jump up or slightly out and to DI your blazer back to the stage (of course, in an in-game situation, you might not have the time to think of the *right* thing to do until it's too late - I probably would've done the same thing and met a horrible end - that's why we must learn to recognize these situations and learn from them)
00:15: notice that masashi adapts quickly and now focuses on a ground-based game to close in.
00:20: good move, masashi uses his double jump to jump behind DK, thus avoiding the shield grab.
00:38: masashi clearly sees that his DED is being shielded within shield-grab range. He probably continued DED to weakend DK's shield and hopefully hit under the shield (since DK has a tiny shield compared to his body). I dunno why he didn't use 3rd hit down to try to reach under the shield, 3rd hit forward is just a straight slash into the shield, maybe he was waiting for the 4th hit down/up? Ultimately it didn't pay off as CJ was quick enough to shield-grab before the 4th hit.
00:45: dunno why he went for a smash instead of a grab, which probably would lead to more combos (dk is at 22%). The smash is a high risk, low reward move at this point (grab is the opposite and can easily lead to twice the amount of dmg as a smash)
01:00: no comment... crawling up into a charged smash right infront of him? >_>
Pretty much, the rest of the match is just CJ owning with one big combo. Meh
Summary: I think the match started off very bad with the momentum going to CJ within seconds (a couple bad moves and Masahi was down a stock already). He made a good adaptation right after falling behind but made some crucial errors (cllimbing into charged smash, DEDing dk's shield several times with just forward attacks).
bah that was a rather long post? discuss plz ;)
Anyways, I stole this idea from srk, where people would present videos of themselves (or people would just give videos) and then have skilled players break the videos down bit by bit showing what was done good, and what was not. I think it's a lot easier for people to learn when they have a tangible reference. When you can SEE what's wrong and what's right, it becomes a lot easier to learn what to do when, etc (an example was when starcraft enabled replays; there was an immediate influx of improved people who spent their time watching hundreds of replays). Since there're a lot more Roy videos than before (especially with CJ's site coming out with a bunch from masashi), I figured, "why not try it?"
Note: these are all MY opinions of what was done right and what was done wrong, feel free to disagree (infact I encourage that, so we can get a discussion going). Also note that I'm trying to apply theory to actual game situations. Even the best player won't make the *perfect* choice every single time. I'm just trying to save my own ***, cause I'm most definitely NOT the best roy user, not even in my city/state (**** ken >_>).
I think the 1st video we should discuss is Masashi's Roy vs CJ's DK (#47 on CJ's website). Some people were shocked that masashi's "godly" roy lost to cj's "godly" dk and came to the conclusion that DK > Roy, which IMHO is untrue. Roy can combo DK like crazy as well as edgeguard DK easily. Anyways, here's my analysis (i'm gonna pick some specific instances from the video as well as have a overall summary at the end) :
00:06: Masashi immediately starts off with an AERIAL attack, which CJ CC's and goes into w/e. Why would Roy, a char who dies to CC want to start off with one of his most CC-able attacks? I think the match would be better started with an attempt to throw, etc
00:09: I think it was rather *dangerous* of masashi to just jump straight into DK at this point. A better solution, at this point, would be to jump up or slightly out and to DI your blazer back to the stage (of course, in an in-game situation, you might not have the time to think of the *right* thing to do until it's too late - I probably would've done the same thing and met a horrible end - that's why we must learn to recognize these situations and learn from them)
00:15: notice that masashi adapts quickly and now focuses on a ground-based game to close in.
00:20: good move, masashi uses his double jump to jump behind DK, thus avoiding the shield grab.
00:38: masashi clearly sees that his DED is being shielded within shield-grab range. He probably continued DED to weakend DK's shield and hopefully hit under the shield (since DK has a tiny shield compared to his body). I dunno why he didn't use 3rd hit down to try to reach under the shield, 3rd hit forward is just a straight slash into the shield, maybe he was waiting for the 4th hit down/up? Ultimately it didn't pay off as CJ was quick enough to shield-grab before the 4th hit.
00:45: dunno why he went for a smash instead of a grab, which probably would lead to more combos (dk is at 22%). The smash is a high risk, low reward move at this point (grab is the opposite and can easily lead to twice the amount of dmg as a smash)
01:00: no comment... crawling up into a charged smash right infront of him? >_>
Pretty much, the rest of the match is just CJ owning with one big combo. Meh
Summary: I think the match started off very bad with the momentum going to CJ within seconds (a couple bad moves and Masahi was down a stock already). He made a good adaptation right after falling behind but made some crucial errors (cllimbing into charged smash, DEDing dk's shield several times with just forward attacks).
bah that was a rather long post? discuss plz ;)