Falco up against the two top tiers

[falcoblazes]

hi everyone, i really want some help with my falco, he's pretty much the fourth best character in the game, according to the tiers.
I really want to know, if i'm up against a really good player like Shiek or Fox how do i play these two, and my friend i'm playing against seems to know about alot of thing with both of them, like wavesmash, dair with Fox shine, L-cancel jump into me dair shine, L-cancel and he do that for about 40% if not all the time. Me i SHL into him dtilt, L-cancel that (very hard)in the air use my shine jump out of my shine and use my up-b. i use more comboes but thats the only one thats doing any damage, but i still lose at the end, can anyone tell me a good way to play these two?:crazy:

[Hoefler]

the dair > shiek (kinda) and a LOT against fox.

[Pathetiqu3]

Fox is easily spiked by his dair. And his weight is perfect for you to set-up a combo using your shine.

[Insemination_17]

Try this when you're facing a fox with your falco. Grab him and press down, and then grab him again right after and press down, and keep doing it until he DI's out of it. If you're good, you can grab him again after he DI's by following his DI, which in this case goes the same direction in which you're facing him, since that's fox's only option.

There's a name for that,.....it's in the tip of my tongue,......gad d a m n it..........it's like what sheik does to link with her downgrab.....

-Peace

[Zanguzen]

chainthrow?
- - - - - - - - -
I think Falco's dthrow makes the opponent lay on the ground unless they tech. So the only way you can grab them again is if they do a standing tech and don't go in any direction and at the same time don't counterattack. So I'm not sure about that- but I could be wrong.

Also, is it true that the opponent Fox will always tech in the way you're facing? What's stopping him from doing a standing tech or a tech to the right?

Sorry, I'm still learning - so could you please elaborate? Thanks.

[Dr Drew the Dragon]

There's a glitch with Falco's downthrow on Fox, where Fox can't tech it ever. This was fixed in PAL I believe, but if you're in the US then teching Falco's downthrow is impossible.

However, Fox is supposed to be able to act before Falco can, so he should be able to jab/shine before Falco can grab again (though the Falco I play against seems to be able to shine before I can do anything, probably my own timing working against me). Also, Fox can still DI out of Falco's grab range.

Still, the shock factor of not being able to tech is usually good enough for 2-3 consecutive downthrows, at least early in the match against a Fox inexperienced with the matchup.

As far as general matchup tips, Falco does pretty well against Sheik and Fox, as he can out-priortize both of them on the ground and in the air. Learn to up-tilt and you can take out ALL of Fox's aerial options in fact (Falco's up-tilt has got to be at least partially disjointed, I've seen it beat another Falco's spike...)

Just watch out for Fox's up throw to up smash and Sheik's up-tilt, they can both put some major hurt on Falco.

[CORY]

in all ntsc versions, fox can't tech falco's dthrow, he stands straight up. if your opponent doesn't know any better, you can chain throw them to **** and back. if they do know any better, they can grab/shine you faster than you can recover from your animation, but it can still be thrown out as a surprise deal (i.e. dthrow-grab-normal throw chain).

[Suretman]

Falco does good against sheik and fox, the only person in the top tier that gives him trouble is marth. About that down throw thing, I wouldn't try it against anyone experienced because they will grab you. In case you don't know, getting grabbed when your falco is a very bad thing against most characters(you will almost always end up getting chain grabbed or put through some nasty combo) in this case fox can do up smashes/bair/nair or whatever is available.

[Zanguzen]

Falco does good against sheik and fox, the only person in the top tier that gives him trouble is marth. About that down throw thing, I wouldn't try it against anyone experienced because they will grab you. In case you don't know, getting grabbed when your falco is a very bad thing against most characters(you will almost always end up getting chain grabbed or put through some nasty combo) in this case fox can do up smashes/bair/nair or whatever is available.

What about if after the dthrow you spotdodge and then do some other attack or reattempt a grab. In other words, if you know the Fox will tech and quickly react to the dthrow, is there anyway you can use that to your advantage and thus counterattack?

[Suretman]

No, because Fox recovers form it faster than you do, and even if he isn't fast enough to grab he could always shine since that is 1/60th of a second.

[Zanguzen]

Ah- so a knowledgeable Fox has an advantage over Falco because the dthrow becomes a danger (although against good players it's usually useless anyway).

[Nappydude]

i'm falcoblazes i got a new user name etc.

[Volroth]

soo against a Fox the key strategy for a Falco is to not get grabbed I see... I recently went to a tournament at my high school in the semi'finals I was facing a fox who grabbed me threw up and up smashed me 2x and I was already around 45%. even if I DI'ed (since falco fast falls) I always got hit maybe that why I lost =P I couldn't jump out of the throw either for the same reason :( so got any other advice other than not getting grabbed? maybe a possible counter character pick or stage, though from what I here falco is does good against fox. Maybe I should stick with him.

[FlowinWater]

Falco does do good agaisnt fox, but not by a large margin, is almost an even match. Just make sure while edguarding you laser out so you can get fox under the ledge, giving him no opportunity to illusion to the stage. If you make him use his Firefox you can just Dsmash or better yet, spike him down.

Against Sheik, same thing, is either an even fight or on Falco's favor. Falco can combo her to heck with Up tilt, shines, and overall offensive game. Sheik can't do nothing but grab him or needles, since her tilts won't combo him on low percent. Sheik has to settle to following techs out of grabs and needles for damage. When you are over 70% i suggest you watch out for a D/Ftilt to slap.

Marth can give you lots a trouble. Just space out, laser, and kill him with Back Airs. Kills him fairly quick.


HOLLA

[Mic_128]

Just use the best weapon Falco has. The toe. Fsmash all the way. And spike.

[Umbreon]

falco IS top tier. in my demented mind anyway. FFS old skool!

Falco seems to do pretty good vs them. Falco somewhat counters fox and can do just even with sheik. Good stuff.

[Nappydude]

ever since i got my GC, i loved that bird (Falco). He and i went threw alot in life, we even won a Tournament. just kidding! but for real, Falco should be top tier, he's kool and he could stand up to any character in the game. He's the best in my book, plus my game:chuckle: .

[FaTmAn2k20]

I think Falco vs. Fox is a nasty matchup for either player, but slightly worse for the Falco player. Trying the "chain throw" is always good, but people have already covered that, and it seems like the average smasher is picking up on that anyway. If you can catch them in a spike -> shine -> spike -> shine, etc. combo, then you should be able to rack up 30-60% damage on them, which always helps. Another combo on Fox is the shine -> short hop -> repeat, but that doesn't add up as much damage, and it's easy to get out of after 10-20%. Edgeguarding is in Falco's favor too, so if you can read the opponent well they're dead the first time they go off the stage.

[Nappydude]

yeah! but no fox player i know can beat me with Falco, i'm to good with him. Fox is faster but Falco has power etc, neways it all depends on how good the player is, as it always.

[Cubed64]

Falco is good, but i dont think he is good enough to be top tier. Its because of his recovery ... **** craphouse recovery. If his recovery was the smae as fox's, falco would definantly be top tier.

Falco vs shiek is an even match. Falco can crouch cancel most of shieks tilts and then counter with d+tilt which is a very good attack and is a KO move. Shiek can juggle falco easily and the needles screw up his recovery big time. Over all it is an even match up.

Falco vs Fox is always a good match. Falco can d+tilt into d+tilt , d+tilt, d+tilt , u+tilt to a decent percentage then finish off with a forward smash, but then again fox can do the same. Either way, the match will be a fast paced one.

[Freak Boy]

yeh fox vs. falco is a good match but i thiink that not many poeple would be falco cuz if done properly fox would deep fry falco
reason 1: L-cancel gun aka short hop blaster
reason 2: fox is much faster

[ChRed2AKrisp]

SHL is much more potent with Falco, itwould def not be a reason for Fox to own falco. Falco's SHL owns Fox's anyday of the week. Speed yes, but not the SHL

[Zanguzen]

ive played some great foxes, and let me just say, their speed is too much for falco. yes the laser's can hold them off, but for how long? once the fox gets in, they'll either get u in annoying shine combos or even worse, grab u. Once they grab u, they can easily utilt combo or uair. Even if u try rolling away aftewards fox will catch up and either shffl nair, dair->shine, or grab. Once ure off the edge a shinespike will guarantee falco's death.

i think fox has the advantage despite the fact that falco's aerials outprioritize fox's. a good aerial game and a very skilled shine comboer at early percents is a necessity if falco wants to defeat a good fox.

[Nephilim]

You know I have mixed feeling about the Fox vs Falco matchup....

I was going to say on FD Falco wins but that's really the place where Fox can combo Falco much easier. Up throw to up smash works wonders. Up throw > up smash > up smash > follow tech f smash is murder.

Then again Falco can play a really good shoot and run game on FD. Shine combos can give Fox heavy damage and because of Foxes light weight a simple sex kick can set up for edge guarding.

On platform levels Fox can hide from the SHL but loses Fox loses his up throw as a combo starter on lower percent. Falco can actually shine combo better on platforms too.

Hmm too tough to call.

You know what if you play Fox you know what to do against a Falco so man up and play.

If you play Falco and you go up against a Fox you know what to do too so just play.

[UndrDog]

thing with Fox though if you get him off the edge with Falco, he is dead. hate to say it, but his recovery is so predictable and easliy spiked.

[Dark_Shadow17]

What about the fsmash across FD? Fox's weight, and for some reason, Marth's also, you can get them into a chain of fsmashes. What I do is just at low dmgs, either shine spike once and then foward smash repeadedly untill end of stage, or just downA on ground and multiple Fsamashes! it works and usually does about 45-75% damage! on marths it works well


Someone try that on Marth and tell me how it works on Marths.

Oh yeah Shiek Also.

[cHaNg-sTa]

Fsmash all the way? Sorry, but that can be easily avoided

I personally like Spike, Shine, Spike, uptilt, uptilt, fsmash (or just one uptilt depending on damage)

Most good players will DI after the 2nd shine. So I go ahead and uptilt which traps fox extremely well. I always seem to forget to fsmash cuz I'm too hooked on the uptilting, but I'm sure it works.

Falco can beat Fox in the air pretty well at most angles. Just avoid the grabs, they really screw Falco up pretty well. However, at low percents, you can avoid the 2nd upsmash in the upthrow upsmash by teching it. It's quite tough in the beginning since the timing is different, but just tech a tad sooner than you think you would.

Dthrow glitch is nice. I prolly use that the most simply because it's cool and I like to keep players on the ground. But against Fox.. upthrow is quite a good option as well. Even tho the lasers knock Fox around, it's not too hard to follow up with a bair.

[FalseFalco]

Fox's upgrab is not a surefire weapon. I DI it close to every time and watch the missed uair/usmash and laugh. if youre smart with fox you can upgrab and follow a DI with an aerial. falco beats fox in air, fox beats in grabs, falco wins in edguarding so fox's recovery is kind of overlooked there, fox has close to no moves to keep falco in the air while falco has a weak upsmash and uair which can juggle fox easy, fox's best bet is waveshine and be quick enough to not let falco get up. falco blaster is good but not the greatest against fox. I usually win with falco.

[Zanguzen]

smart foxs will rarely shffl aerials when the falco isnt trying to get up because falco outprioritizes foxs aerials, so the fox will usually do a double jump which reaches the perfect height so that falco's first hop is too short but his double jump makes him go too high, allowing fox to easily bair him. Fox can interrupt combos with the shine which can start a chain of chasing and usmashing. At higher percents, uthrow to uair is almost a guaranteed killer.

And let's face it, it's not hard to edgeguard falco with fox either. In fact, even if falco is near the edge and the fox shines him the falco may not be able to recover.

fox's speed is just too much for falco, and combined with his shine, falco is rendered almost useless. the only strat i stupidly haven't considered is playing a run-away laser game against fox, luring him to the edge, and depending on falco's spike to get him through just as he would in a falco ditto. So i assume the ftilt is an important weapon against fox.

[FalseFalco]

maybe its just the style of falco i play but im just as fast as any fox ive played. i mean move excecution wise. and i wasnt saying to shffl aerials while falco is standing but after an utilt or ugrab or something like that you can probably fit 1 or 2 sex kicks but ive see way too many fox's rely on uthrow usmash or uthrow utilt.

[sven27]

Out of all the people I play with, only 1 other person uses falco. Fox overwhelms Falco in the speed department but can make up for it in his coverage area and his aerial priority. Too many d/uthrow utilts Foxes.

[Dark_Shadow17]

this is beside the point...all my friends except a few ***sigh**They're scrubs and think that young link is the best character***** we use the top tier charies, I use fox, friend 1 uses sheik the best out of us, friend 2 uses marth the best of us, and friend 3 aka friend 1's lil bro **WHOA HE'S GOOD** uses peach. oh yeah, we all know how to use them it's just that we specialize in one *I have Falco OMG he's awsm and Fox*


this is bad, i can't seem to time the uair for fox when I uthrow what's happening to me? is it me using more characters and not concentrating on one or what?

[Reborn_Fox]

Yea i think Fox is a good Character along with young link.
Don't know why but everyone thinks Fox suxs and can't fight.

>.< : (

[ANTX]

hello guy, welcome to SWF!
here's the thing.
FOX IS THE BEST. many consider him to be the best character in the game.

everyone here will think fox is good, so you have found a home. ^_^

[Zarelid]

Fox aint the best no way, his easy to edge guard recovery, falling fast that makes him EASY to combo, one mistake 0-death combos, little range etc...make him not the best. on the other hand Sheiks got range hard to edge guard recovery, insane combos that work on EVERYONE, etc... makes her the best.

[Reborn_Fox]

Fox is way better than Sheik. Sheik doesn't have anything on Fox he could beat her just because the fact that her specials suk and that her smashes for the most part are weak.

Fox's only problem is that he is not as strong as the other characters. But im not sure but if their not even i believe that Fox is stronger than Sheik. And if that's the case Fox being faster beats her in all categories. ( I am Strongly supportive of Fox).

[ANTX]

now fox is easy to manipulate, but a great fox is SOOOO HARDCORE.

and infinates aren't out of the question. they aren't too hard to do, and they also provide at least a little fear.

and sheik is teh EZ to edge-hog.

[Zarelid]

Originally posted by Reborn_Fox
Fox is way better than Sheik. Sheik doesn't have anything on Fox he could beat her just because the fact that her specials suk and that her smashes for the most part are weak.

Fox's only problem is that he is not as strong as the other characters. But im not sure but if their not even i believe that Fox is stronger than Sheik. And if that's the case Fox being faster beats her in all categories. ( I am Strongly supportive of Fox).



ok for one wtf just cause Fox can beat sheik doesn't give him the best character title, thats what peopel get confused about.....



Fox aint strong...do you know what your talking about?

[Reborn_Fox]

Yea the fact that he can beat sheik doesn't make him the best character. But their isn't a character that can really do much against Fox.

And for the strength comment I know Fox is weak that would be cheating to have Fox with speed and strength.

[Zarelid]

ok 1 jigs does insanely good vs Fox owning his recovery and up throw rest comb=death, the one hitter quitter.

and wtf!!!! I ment Fox is STRONG!!!! god, his up smash kills at like 80% up airs too!!!