R-Canceling..help PLSS

[00000001]

Why is there no possible way for me to EVER R-Cancel a short hop/drill kick into a reflector. I practice this over and over and over, i'll just sit here at my gc doing it over and over and the most i can do it out of like 50 tries is maybe twice...pls, anyone who has any input at all as to an easy way to do this HELP.

[Crash]

if your that dude from the hub, i already explained it, drill kick has 9 frames L cancelled lag, so don't shine immediately when you land. practice the timing dude.
the other possiblility is of course that your L cancelling is off, practice with bowser's back air (its so satisfying seeing that fatass move quickly) until you're certain that that isn't the problem.

Edit: i was just practicing it for the first time ever, i was getting it like 4/5 times... so... keep practicing...

[CunningKitsune]

Repitition and muscle memory are key to Fox, especially the higher level stuff like you are trying to do. That technique is truly not that hard at all to do; sheer repitition (mindless at times, I know) in Training Mode plus in-battle instances of it really helped to solidify the technique for me to the point of virtually 100% accuracy in execution. Note that this was after I had switched from the control stick to "Y" for the short-hop (I assume that you use "Y" also); I was not able to do it before that. If you are using the control stick to short-hop, I suggest you make an effort to change to either "X" or "Y", whichever works for you; perhaps that will improve your success rate. So, there you have one thing you could do: Muscle-memory the thing until you can do it in your sleep, without even thinking about it.

The other thing that you could do is a bit more... unorthodox. It involves psychological Smash, your mindset during your moves, essentially. You can literally change the way that you think about the execution of the move. Now, I know that that sounds kind of off-the-wall, but hear me out here. Personally, changing the way that I thought about the short-hop Drill Kick to shine (or, in my case, the shuffled Drill Kick to waveshine-"drill shine") was a major factor in bringing my consistency with it to virtually 100%. Seriously. While practing the Drill Shine, instead of thinking of it as simply "Drill Shine," I would think of it as "shuffled Drill Kick" / "waveshine", separating out the two components of it in my mind and then performing according to that. That "/" there is where I would insert a reset in hand position to go along with the mental separation of the move. I found that that reset, both mental (the twp separate parts of the move in my head) and physical (the hand position), was the key to landing the waveshine after the shuffled Drill Kick every single time, literally. I applied the same technique of mental and physical separation to the usually-bothersome shuffled sex kick to waveshine, and now I can do that flawlessly, too. Beforehand, I had fallen victim to going into a Fox Illusion after the shuffled sex kick, killing myself repeatedly, but when I tried this separation technique, it all came together for me. I haven't accidently Illusioned out of a shuffled sex kick or Drill Shine since.

I don't know, maybe that mental and physical separation thing only works for me. Still, it's just a suggestion, 00000001. Like I said, my accuracy stems from that method and repitition of the move over and over again. Like Crash said, the best thing you could do now, it seems, is to do a short-hop, L-canceled Drill Kick over and over and over until it becomes a natural movement. Then, tack on the shine at the end of it and incorporate that into your repitition. Eventually, it will click and you'll be able to get it every time.

[Suretman]

NOO! Don't listen to cunning(actually you can but this is my preference and the other side of control stick vs x/y). If you like shorthopping with the control stick then stick with that. I regret learning shorthopping with x and I'm making an effort to learn to do it with the control stick. Y and X are easier?(x seems easiest to me but thats probably just cause I learned it that way) IMO with control stick shorthopping you have a lot more control and it's easier to do things. People talk about using y to jump and then rolling their thumb down to a or b, well with the control stick you don't have to do any movement at all, your thumb is already there!(since your using the other thumb for the jump)

[CunningKitsune]

Meh. Everyone has their niche, Suretman. Mine just happened to be "Y". :)

But seriously, 00000001 (man, that is a pretty... unique user name...), if you do find your "niche" in this X/Y v. Control Stick thing, it may improve your accuracy and consistency with some, if not all, of the higher level techniques. Such is the case with me.

It is interesting to note the different mindsets on this Control Stick v. X/Y thing... In this case, Suretman and I seem to differ on virtually every point of it. :eek:

I regret learning shorthopping with x and I'm making an effort to learn to do it with the control stick.
On the other hand, I regret learning short-hopping with the control stick and have made the effort to learn it with "Y".

Y and X are easier?(x seems easiest to me but thats probably just cause I learned it that way) IMO with control stick shorthopping you have a lot more control and it's easier to do things.
To me, "Y" seems easier simply because I learned it that way. I also feel that I hold more control over my short-hop and what I can do from and during it by using "Y" for it.

People talk about using y to jump and then rolling their thumb down to a or b, well with the control stick you don't have to do any movement at all, your thumb is already there!(since your using the other thumb for the jump)
This thumb-rolling thing is true, although personally it doesn't bother me at all thanks to the muscle memory. My fingers just go wherever they need to, whenever they need to, and however they need to. When using the stick, it was nice not to have to bother changing the thumb's positioning, but it wasn't that drastic of a change for me. I don't know about other Smashers, though; this is personal experience.

So, yeah, in short, interpret each of our posts in light of your own play style and preferences and our own ways of doing things. Like Suretman said, use whatever you are comfortable with for techniques. After all, my change from the control stick to "Y" was caused by some rather... unique circumstances without which I probably still would be using the control stick for short-hopping. It just so happened that the change to "Y" was extremely beneficial for my own game.