Approaching with Pikachu [Archive]

jrta

10-15-2004, 06:43 PM

Oh my goodness, are we sure that Awdball hasn't been reincarnated? Did he just suggest l-cancelling a B-move? If we can? I would like to preempt another potential flame war by suggesting that we just IGNORE all such comments and refer people back to the Awdball threads to see what is garbage and what is not. That way we won't have to deal with it on a post-to-post basis.

Electricmouse

10-15-2004, 07:00 PM

LOL, jrta. You beat me to it. I'll give demoncaterpie the benifit of the doubt and assume that it was a slip up.

gore

10-15-2004, 07:55 PM

ROFL that's good **** right there... b-canceling Ha! What an idiot.

demoncaterpie

10-16-2004, 03:33 AM

*wakes up from crazy party*

What just happened? Did I suggest b caneling? My bad.

I hope that dosen't happen again.

*Falls back asleep*

JayJay

10-17-2004, 02:34 PM

It may not always be a good idea to just run up SH and attack with Pikachu... He has a major lack of range. Ice Rabbit you may want to try using mind games in your approach to make them whiff, then you can counterattack.

Especially when your playing someone with an outjointed hit box. (specifically Marth :D ) SHing right into them is kinda suicidal. Neatral b is a good way to approach though. If your opponent has no ranged attack you can just bomb them with neatral B and make them come to you.

demoncaterpie

10-19-2004, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by JayJay
It may not always be a good idea to just run up SH and attack with Pikachu... He has a major lack of range. Ice Rabbit you may want to try using mind games in your approach to make them whiff, then you can counterattack.

Mind games work really well. If your opponent is to frusturated or freaked out to attack you, it gives you a huge advantage. Mind games can also be used outside of Smash Bros. It's really hard to play against a guy with dark sunglasses and an overcoat (with an expression that never changes:)) then to play against some six year old kid who dosen't even know the button layout.

VilNess

10-19-2004, 04:21 PM

Hey I gotta try that sunglass thing!
It´s also real hard to play when suddenly throw a blanket over the TV.
Now if you are good at playing "blind" you should win no matter of the matchup.
Another cool trick (should be used only if you think you are physically stronger than your Smashbuddy) is to disconnect your enemys controller, it should give you at least a KO before (s)he re-connects the controller. This is an old trick but it works!

Electricmouse

10-19-2004, 05:42 PM

Ah, the sarcasm it burns.

Come on now give the guy a break, at least he isn't telling everybody to b cancel and doing horrible misquotes of other people posts. Just to try to get this thread back on track, my advice is just to read pictish's pika guide and just rely on speed if nothing else. A slow pika is a dead pika.

pictish freak

10-19-2004, 07:19 PM

Slow pika = dead pika is **** right.

Speed is the key to getting around difficulty approaching ^^ If you're fast, you can sneak in before they can stop you. Thudner jolt helps of course, but Pika is **** good at getting in on any lag.

Rainy Day Toast

10-19-2004, 07:58 PM

Weave in and out between dashdance and WD at close and midrange, spam jolt on alternating short hops and full jumps at long range, and when you can, dash and JC to usmash. juggle from there and go straight for a thunder kill or the tailspike if you're anywhere near the edge; double tailspike if you have the momentum and space space to follow them (i.e., tailspike, fly through the air with them, fast fall below them, and tailspike again).

otherwise jump in with strings of shuffled nairs at every opportunity, or a uair to start a juggle if you can get close enough. ftilt and fsmash on the ground for keepaway and punishing mistakes.

i am so tired i am babbling

just keep moving and you'll be fine.

Ice Rabbit

10-19-2004, 09:15 PM

Pretty much keep moving and use Thunder Jolt to **** them off, right?

demoncaterpie

10-19-2004, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by Ice Rabbit
Pretty much keep moving and use Thunder Jolt to **** them off, right?

Not always. If you use thunder jolt too much, the opponent will start to anticipate it and find ways to counter it. You want to switch your moves up so your opponent can't tell what you're going to do next.

Rainy Day Toast

10-19-2004, 10:59 PM

there isn't much to do to counter jolt.

it's just long distance spam. use it whenever you're far away and need something on the field for when you want to approach. it will keep them from moving too freely and limit their choices for countering you, and will occasionally get you a few free points of damage.

just don't use it anywhere but far away. too laggy.

Melee Warrioir

10-21-2004, 05:22 PM

another thing that may help with pikachu during the battle is when the person ur fighting is next to u or pretty close u can use up tilt, and with some characters or depending on %'s, u can juggle them a bit and use ur U-smash or an arial attack of your choosing.

another strategy u can use is when ur landing from the air (while ur back is facing towards ur opponent) and ur opponent isnt too far away u can waveland backwards, jump and use U-air at the same time (about) and do it once or twice (sometimes twice will work) and then use an arial for the final attack of that 2-3 hit combo. its kind of a situational combo but there will definatly be times where u can pull this off and i dont think anyone has dont this one before either so it doubles as a surprise towards your opponent.

demoncaterpie

10-22-2004, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by Melee Warrioir
another thing that may help with pikachu during the battle is when the person ur fighting is next to u or pretty close u can use up tilt, and with some characters or depending on %'s, u can juggle them a bit and use ur U-smash or an arial attack

Also a good thing to do when the opponent is close to you is a standard down smash. This will set the opponent up for aerial combos such as u airs and neutral airs.

Melee Warrioir

10-23-2004, 12:23 PM

And also thunder as well if ur opponent goes high enough and for a KO

demoncaterpie

10-24-2004, 01:53 PM

Oh, and also.

Originally posted by Rainy Day Toast
just don't use it anywhere but far away. too laggy.

There is a way to use thunder jolt for close range. The dash, short hop, neutral b, down a manuever I talked about earlier. It surprises your opponent and almost always hits them. But, it can always be predicted if used to much. If the player is very skilled (like the people I play) they'll become accustomed to this strategy if used for the millionth time. That goes for the long distance thunder jolt as well.

Rainy Day Toast

10-24-2004, 07:40 PM

ugh

Blind

10-25-2004, 12:54 AM

"ugh"... amazing how three letters can sound so scathing.

I'm inclined to agree with RDT on this one. It's more effective at long range simply because if your opponent evades it, reflects it, powershields it, negates it, or jumps over it, you aren't going to find yourself countered. It can work at close range, but only if it connects... the lag time is too long for you to avoid a counter-attack (Unless you l-cancel, of course. L cancelling a B move is really hard to do though, considering it doesn't exist). Long range jolt has positive effects even if the opponent avoids it. Unless you're certain it will hit, avoid close range jolting.

Jolt is always handy to zap platforms with since it creeps around them. It can catch someone by surprise to get hit with one, and even if they see it coming you can follow it up with a grab should they shield it. If they roll or spot dodge it, follow their roll or just wait for the dodge to end... if they negate it, take advantage of the lag... if they move, well, you got them out from under their platform.

demoncaterpie

10-25-2004, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by HonorBound
"ugh"... amazing how three letters can sound so scathing.

I'm inclined to agree with RDT on this one. It's more effective at long range simply because if your opponent evades it, reflects it, powershields it, negates it, or jumps over it, you aren't going to find yourself countered.

I agree that it's more effective at long ranges, but that dosen't mean that that is the only use for it. The attack comes out to fast for most players to do any of the manuevers suggested, especially if it's point blank. But, like I said before, it's not to be overused. Only a couple of times during a match is needed when you need that extra mindgame manuever on your opponent who has the upper hand. A few times may not seem like much, but those crucial hits can change the outcome of a game.

Melee Warrioir

10-26-2004, 05:50 PM

true, but remember this too. if u do use thunder jolt and they for example,WD forward and avoid it, leaving u wide open to any form of attack, then u know really not to use it again on them, or at least not too often. on second thought, at really high level play i wouldnt use it very often because its just too risky to do.

Electricmouse

10-26-2004, 07:46 PM

Well I play some really good people and spamming thunderjolt from far away is a good tactic well against characters with no good projectiles.. I'm not sure what you mean by them avoiding it by WD. I hope you mean when thunderjolt is used in the air and they WD out of the way of it since WD doesn't make you invincible.

demoncaterpie

10-26-2004, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Electricmouse
Well I play some really good people and spamming thunderjolt from far away is a good tactic well against characters with no good projectiles.. I'm not sure what you mean by them avoiding it by WD. I hope you mean when thunderjolt is used in the air and they WD out of the way of it since WD doesn't make you invincible.

He's talking about thunder jolt from close ranges.

And you're absolutely right, melee warrior. I completely forgot about wavedashing, since all the guys I play can't do it (I'm still learning it myself). But I still stand firm in my decision to use it as a close range projectile. It creates the element of surprise on your enemy.

I only do it a few times during a match at different times. I don't do it multiple times in a row. That's just stupid.

Melee Warrioir

10-31-2004, 09:35 AM

"I don't do it multiple times in a row. That's just stupid."

see u are learning hahaha.

ok now to get back on topic. ive been noticing that short hop neutral A is good, but.... its sorta not too. so what im trying to do is short hop F-air and L-cancel into a tilt attack of some sort. and hopefully the tilt will be a set up for something else. another new style ive been trying to work on is not to attack too much and wait for the exact moment and then beat them. this technique has many flaws but maybe u guys can help me out with it. :D

demoncaterpie

10-31-2004, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by Melee Warrioir
"I don't do it multiple times in a row. That's just stupid."

see u are learning hahaha.

ok now to get back on topic. ive been noticing that short hop neutral A is good, but.... its sorta not too. so what im trying to do is short hop F-air and L-cancel into a tilt attack of some sort. and hopefully the tilt will be a set up for something else. another new style ive been trying to work on is not to attack too much and wait for the exact moment and then beat them. this technique has many flaws but maybe u guys can help me out with it. :D

Pika isn't an aggressive character, what with his short range and all. His best bet is to sit and wait for an oppening and then attack, as you have described. It is very hard to get used to if you're an aggressive player, since Pika takes patience and perfect timing to execute his attacks.

I suggest practising your strategy on level 9 computers and opponents you know are really good.

Practise makes perfect:D :D :D.

Electricmouse

10-31-2004, 11:23 PM

Never ever practice with computers especially lvl 9s. Lvl 9's don't really help since they are easy to take advantage of, don't learn from their mistakes, have godly powersheilding that one else has except maybe zulu. and they won't DI out of your attacks. Sitting and waiting with pika is dangerous especially if you are playing a fast character like capt. falcon. I don't know how you play pika but I play aggressively. The more time they worry about what i'm doing next the less time they have to attack me. Its good to always put pressure on your oppenent and not let them have a chance to relax.

demoncaterpie

11-01-2004, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by Electricmouse
Never ever practice with computers especially lvl 9s. Lvl 9's don't really help since they are easy to take advantage of, don't learn from their mistakes, have godly powersheilding that one else has except maybe zulu. and they won't DI out of your attacks. Sitting and waiting with pika is dangerous especially if you are playing a fast character like capt. falcon. I don't know how you play pika but I play aggressively. The more time they worry about what i'm doing next the less time they have to attack me. Its good to always put pressure on your oppenent and not let them have a chance to relax.

We all know computers are flawed. But when your home-alone and don't have anyone to fight against, a computer can be your best challenge.

"Sitting and waiting" isn't a dangerous strategy, it's one of his best strategies. One of Pika's strong suits is his ability to punish other characters for mistakes (like his down a). Sitting and waiting for your opponent is a great way to exploit his weaknesses.

If you want to be aggressive, though, that's also a pretty good strategy, but his short range makes it hard to go on the offensive, so you have to rely on close combat fights.

It's still possible though.

Electricmouse

11-01-2004, 02:40 AM

Well its better to practice with lvl 6 or 7's than lvl 9's since they do less of the powershielding. Isn't it every character's strong suit to punish mistakes? Besides just sitting and waiting for mistakes is dangerous against some characters. Especially projectile characters and capt. falcon with his knee of death.

f you want to be aggressive, though, that's also a pretty good strategy, but his short range makes it hard to go on the offensive, so you have to rely on close combat fights.

Well since he has short range isn't it a good idea to be in close combat fights. Besides if you rely on speed it isn't really a problem bringing the fight to your opponent.

pictish freak

11-01-2004, 03:21 AM

Sitting and waiting is indeed stupid.

Sure, you need a chance to get in on an opponents attack, but once that chance is there Pikachu can stay on the aggressive for quite a bit...

And you should never just be standing around... just wont work.

You have to be spamming thunder jolt and wavedashing liek crazy.

Example: I was fighting the best Fox player in the UK, and he plays fast. Any time I left any lag whatsoever, he'd grab into an upthrow to U-air juggle. I didn't always react fast enough to DI the upthrow and so leaving any lag was a pretty big risk. So did I stand there? No way..

When he was at the other side of the stage I'd fire off a few jolts to make it dangerous for HIM to stand around. Then when he was attacking, I'd constant wavedash and dash around. This meant it was impossible for him to just get in and grab me, so I could wait for a nice oppertunity from my dashing and wavedashing to dive out with a shuffled N-air, land at the other side of him if it got shielded and start it again. That's just one of the things I did of course, like spot dodge into down smash to lead into more attacks but when I say Pikachu isn't aggressive I mainly mean he can't just rush in with anything, he has to think about what he's doing. When you do get a hit in, don't hold up on the attack at all, as Pika is very much capable of comboing between D-smash, U-airs and stuff >.>

Melee Warrioir

11-02-2004, 07:23 PM

i agree u have to start with a mind game instead of leading off the first attack with pikachu. its way too risky to start things off unless ur spamming thunderjolts. oh and pictish i hope u didnt INTENTIONALLY forget to tell us the winner lol. nah either way u make all pika players proud.

demoncaterpie

11-02-2004, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by pictish freak
Sitting and waiting is indeed stupid.

Sure, you need a chance to get in on an opponents attack, but once that chance is there Pikachu can stay on the aggressive for quite a bit...

And you should never just be standing around... just wont work.

You have to be spamming thunder jolt and wavedashing liek crazy.

Example: I was fighting the best Fox player in the UK, and he plays fast. Any time I left any lag whatsoever, he'd grab into an upthrow to U-air juggle. I didn't always react fast enough to DI the upthrow and so leaving any lag was a pretty big risk. So did I stand there? No way..

When he was at the other side of the stage I'd fire off a few jolts to make it dangerous for HIM to stand around. Then when he was attacking, I'd constant wavedash and dash around. This meant it was impossible for him to just get in and grab me, so I could wait for a nice oppertunity from my dashing and wavedashing to dive out with a shuffled N-air, land at the other side of him if it got shielded and start it again. That's just one of the things I did of course, like spot dodge into down smash to lead into more attacks but when I say Pikachu isn't aggressive I mainly mean he can't just rush in with anything, he has to think about what he's doing. When you do get a hit in, don't hold up on the attack at all, as Pika is very much capable of comboing between D-smash, U-airs and stuff >.>

"Sitting and Waiting" is merely an expression.

Of course it's not a good idea to just stand their and wait to be killed. That's just plain dumb. What I was trying to say is that Pika's strategy is to wait for your opponent to attack or screw up. This can also be called an opportunist-style strategy.

Pika can punish severly for mistakes.

I'm sorry if you thought I meant just sitting and waiting and not doing anything. I'll try to be more clear next time.

Melee Warrioir

11-03-2004, 05:57 PM

U BETTER BE!! lol jk:laugh: recently its really weird, i used to be great at L cancel now i cant land anything! ah well ill train for it again...... (grr).

Red Dragon

11-14-2004, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by pictish freak
Sitting and waiting is indeed stupid.

Sure, you need a chance to get in on an opponents attack, but once that chance is there Pikachu can stay on the aggressive for quite a bit...

And you should never just be standing around... just wont work.

You have to be spamming thunder jolt and wavedashing liek crazy.

Example: I was fighting the best Fox player in the UK, and he plays fast. Any time I left any lag whatsoever, he'd grab into an upthrow to U-air juggle. I didn't always react fast enough to DI the upthrow and so leaving any lag was a pretty big risk. So did I stand there? No way..

When he was at the other side of the stage I'd fire off a few jolts to make it dangerous for HIM to stand around. Then when he was attacking, I'd constant wavedash and dash around. This meant it was impossible for him to just get in and grab me, so I could wait for a nice oppertunity from my dashing and wavedashing to dive out with a shuffled N-air, land at the other side of him if it got shielded and start it again. That's just one of the things I did of course, like spot dodge into down smash to lead into more attacks but when I say Pikachu isn't aggressive I mainly mean he can't just rush in with anything, he has to think about what he's doing. When you do get a hit in, don't hold up on the attack at all, as Pika is very much capable of comboing between D-smash, U-airs and stuff >.>

A slow Pikachu is a dead Pikachu, thats why against characters that are faster than him, its better to mess around with dashes and jolts to distract the opponent so you can get a clear opportunity. Pikachu punishes mistakes, so its better to lead opponents into them, but sometimes thats difficult. I rather have an over offensive, reflector happy Fox thats much faster than me, then have a Fox that clearly knows what he's doing, people that rely only on speed don't stand a chance against those that know what to do against it.

demoncaterpie

11-16-2004, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by Red Dragon
A slow Pikachu is a dead Pikachu, thats why against characters that are faster than him, its better to mess around with dashes and jolts to distract the opponent so you can get a clear opportunity. Pikachu punishes mistakes, so its better to lead opponents into them, but sometimes thats difficult. I rather have an over offensive, reflector happy Fox thats much faster than me, then have a Fox that clearly knows what he's doing, people that rely only on speed don't stand a chance against those that know what to do against it.

Good point, Red. Pika's speed is his most important attribute.