Falco vs. Captain Falcon

[Moonchild]

I use Falco and I have a lot(not "alot") of trouble with my friends Captain Falcon(Kadian) and just about everything he does. Hes pretty good and uses uair and fair very efficiantly. I just need some sort of trump...

[zeta]

I also have a friend that plays captain falcon frequently. My advice would to be shl when there distance between you two, but if falcon is charging stop or you will get a fair to the face. After a little of the laser spam come at falcon with a shuffled dair or nair into the shine. If this connects he'll fly into the air setting him up for falco's great air game or juggling skills FALCON IS EASILY JUGGLED. Lastly effective edge guarding is necessary spikes are always nice but sometimes I get cought in falcon's up b. So i occasionally use the d-smash depending on what angle falcon is coming back at.

Hope this helps.

[Cubed64]

hmm, Falco vs Falcon.

Well, you said your friend uses uair and fair. A good tactic is to just stand dead still in the middle of the stage. You friend will most likely SH fair so just as he jumps, you sheild. When he lands, grab him and do as you see fit.

Falcon is very dependant on aerials and if you meet him in the air, you arent going to win. Falcon's uair, fair and bair are all superior to falco's so what you have to do is SHL alot and try and stop him from taking to the air. Use Falco's shffl'ed dair a lot. It's a very good move and it will keep him on the ground.

Falcon's recovery is good, but there is one fatal flaw. Falcon has to fully complete his up+b in order to grab the edge. You can take advantage of this by using downsmash if he tries to grab the edge. Always SHL off the edge of the stage if he is off, you might cancel his 2nd jump and that drastically reduces his recovery.

Remember, sheild grab works well on Falcon, especially if he doesnt l-cancel perfectly.

[Moonchild]

Ok, more bad news. He DOES L-cancel perfectly and he is an expert at edgeguarding with dair. Its now at the point where if im thrown off the edge im likely to be edgeguarded or spiked very quickly. Also he is smart enough to take minimal damge from SHL

[Kadian]

You're doomed. Stop trying.

[soberfox]

I always found Captain Falcon to be a rather easy opponent for Falco. SHL is awesome vs him, and he is very easily spiked, and just edgeguarded in general. He can also be juggled easily, and shield grabbing works great on him.

[Masamune]

If you know that he will spike you, press up+a as fast as you can and you meteor cancel it.

An easy combo against CF is to use shine, ADA, shine, ADA... It doesn't work if he reacts very fast, because then he will DI very quickly.

[Glide]

Well, a perfectly placed Knee can't be shield grabbed sorry to say; as a matter of fact, should he place it just right, he can grab first. Best advice? Learn to tell when the knee is coming and spot dodge it, or just keep in close. Remember; Falcon needs aerials to survive, and the closer you are, the harder it is for him to pull them off.

[Moonchild]

Ok, he reacts fast, so that combo wouldnt work. But whats ADA? Also he only does the knee when he is sure it will hit, and he almost always places it perfectly so I go flying off the screen at a very low angle. One of his favorite combos is to throw me up and then knee me before I can even move. Keep in mind that he is higher in general skill than me, but I think I'm getting better. Heck, at FC, I couldnt even SHL. (and i didnt know what SHL stood for)

[soberfox]

Well hopefully you can SHL pretty well now, as it's key in the Falcon matchup, and just .. well key in general for Falco.

[Cubed64]

Hmm, it looks like SHL is all you have, especially if your opponent L-cancels perfectly. Do you know how to SHL advance and SHL retreat? If so, SHL advance and forward smash, or dair, or shine. SHL is a good combo starter and on hig percentages, SHL into forward smash works wonders.

[Moonchild]

Yeah it usually works well for me. My SHL retreat and advance arent good at all. I can do an advance maybe once after a run but I usually end up doing a phantasam off the stage on the second time or I just dont move at all. Also I dont think I know how to do an SHL retreat. I did just start to L-cancel A LOT more than I was. I usually hit L way too early. Also I'm trying to incorperate the shine into my game more.

[AWrulez]

Cpt. Falcon is usually a pretty easy opponent for Falco.

Short hop blaster. Constantly. Don't stop. Even at close range, short hop blaster (if you can hit him of course).
Use your sex kick (aerial neutral) a lot. Short hop into it. L-cancel, as always. You should also use the back aerial. Do all this while short hopping, so the Falcon will have trouble landing your aerial up+A.
Spike shine combos with Falco are tricky, but I'll give you some basic info. Down+B reflector, jump out of it, follow Cpt. Falcon's DI (where he flies), spike, fastfall, L-cancel, shine. You should hit the ground first, or at around the same time. It's really tricky, but if you can't do it well on him, just go jump out of the first reflector into an aerial attack.

[Moonchild]

Well I just recently played him again. I already do use those tactics that you said (except the shine-spike combo which im bad at agenst humans) and he... well he 4 stocked me out of 4 lives. Yeah I can be more spicific about his fighting style though. Its best charicterized by jumping and then doing whatever the **** he can in the air to get to me and I usually end up with either a knee or a foot in my face. He jumps over almost ALL of my lasers and can still attack well. Basically he just jumps and then attacks. A lot. Though most if his jump to ariel stuff is easy to dodge, he then usually does some sort of combo that usually gets me in the air (depending on where I am, he does falcon kick, dragon dive, dash attack, or a dash grab) and after that I once again end up with a knee in my face, then when I recover with my phantasm, he spikes me (dair) IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PHANTASM! I need more falcon practice...

[FlowinWater]

Um.. There is nothing you can do hes just more experienced then you.

Falco owns Falcon by the way just keep playing and you will one day beat him............ one day :beezo:

[Moonchild]

Uh... thanks?

[FlowinWater]

No problem man.

But seriuosly you can't expect to beat him if you can't SHL advance nor retreat, no shine combos, or even L cancel consistently. When you do stick to Falcon like a white on Rice, his Nair can beat Falcon's Knee since its faster, Dair owns falcon big time to.

[Cubed64]

Ok, heres what you need to do. One day, sit down in front of your cube and go into training mode, then just jump, dair, L-cancel, jump, dair, L-cancel. Do this 100 times. Then do this: shine, jump out of shine with control stick, dair, L-cancel, shine, jump out of shine with control stick, dair, L-cancel. Do this 100 times. Then simply practice SHL advance and retreat. Its mega easy, instead of fast falling, just press across on the control stick. Then practice wavedashing, go to one side of Final Destination and wavedash to the other. Keep doing this untill you can wavedash perfectly from one side of FD to the other without mid-air dodging. After you have done all that (all these things should be done on Final Destination) then verse level 9 computers set on C. Falcon. After you have done that, go and verse your friend and use all the tatics you learnt. Remember to sheil grab his aerial attacks.

Good luck.

[AWrulez]

If he beat you that bad... you just have to get better. How does he jump over your lasers? Right at the start of the match, SHB your *** off. If he manages to get higher than a short hop laser, full jump blaster to force him to the ground. You just need good reflexes. Falcon lacks priority in the air, except for his up air, so your neutral aerial or back aerial can beat out his knee or whatever. Short hop these right after a blaster to take advantage of the stun, and so that it'd be tricky for him to land his up aerial on you. Cpt. Falcon's recovery is pretty easy to edgeguard too.
L-cancel well. Short hop perfectly. Just get better.

[Zanguzen]

Sorry for not answering the original poster's question, but if you don't mind, Cubed64, could you explain some specific things you described in your above post?

1) The part where you said he should go to FD, shine, jump with the control stick, dair, shine, repeat- do you mean shorthop when you jump and also why should the control stick be used?

2) What specifically is SHL advance/retreat? Is advance where you jump relatively far towards your opponent while shooting a laser (without fast fall), and is retreat doing the same except backwards (reverse SHL)?

Thanks a lot for any help. I'm also trying to get better with Falco and I'd like to understand this stuff. Also, good luck to the original poster. From what I've read, I would think that FlowinWater was right-you just need more experience.

[FlowinWater]

He says to jump with the Control stick because the shine is cancelled alot faster that way then it is by pressing X.

SHL advance is just moving forwards while SHLing, and Retreat is just moving backwards while SHLing.

[Cubed64]

Originally by Flowinwater: He says to jump with the Control stick because the shine is cancelled alot faster that way then it is by pressing X.

SHL advance is just moving forwards while SHLing, and Retreat is just moving backwards while SHLing.

Originally by Zanguzen: but if you don't mind, Cubed64, could you explain some specific things you described in your above post? Hmmm, lets see........ HE ASKED ME FLOWINWATER!!!!!! lol, but you did just as good a job as i could have done, if not better.

Hmm, trying to get better with falco??? download DC++ and get lots and lots of vids. Just go to the search tool and type in 'Falco'. Then download away!!!

[Moonchild]

For the SHL advance, do you press forward after you tap B? I could only do it of I dash then SHL while I'm moving. Every time I did it before I pressed forward, I always shot over the head of my opponant.

Also, for some reason, I can L-cancel the jump to dair shine, jump again, into infinity. But when I try to do it agenst another charicter, even the training mode guy, I seem to miss the L-cancel a lot more. I usually press L when I dair the char and no matter how much I practice it I cant seem to L-cancel it.

[soberfox]

To L-cancel, try and tap L when you see the dust forming under your character for their landing.

[Glide]

There's a good reason for why you have difficulties with L-canceling when you hit someone, and it's not really stupidity or anything of the sort; it actually has to do with the way the game works. See, if you don't hit anyone, the animation goes off smoothly; not pauses, no nothing. If you do however, it pauses the action for a few frames, and this could very well throw off your timing. This is why L-cancelling is a little more difficult than people who are outside the smash community actually think. This is most noticeable when Martch connects with a tipper in mid-slash. So, you'll have to have the timing down differently if you plan to actually hit someone with it and L-cancel, or else just tap as you near the ground instead of just getting a regiment with your fingers down.

[Moonchild]

Iono why, but when I came home and practiced today I could L-cancel a lot better, maybe its all the practice. But what about the SHL advance question I had in my above post?

[Cubed64]

Originally by Moonchild: For the SHL advance, do you press forward after you tap B? I could only do it of I dash then SHL while I'm moving. Every time I did it before I pressed forward, I always shot over the head of my opponant. Yes, what you were doing before was correct, do a little dash and then SHL normally, the momentum from the dash will carry you forward slightly, however this technique can be intecepted mid dash with no way to stop the enemy from hitting you off the edge.

[Moonchild]

Ok thanks a bunch guys!

[Moonchild]

Ok, I was practicing my WD a bit recently, and after the slide of it Falco put up his shield for a second. This seemed to happen every time and I dont really think its supposed to. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

[Glide]

You're holding the shield/dodge button a little too long. You'll have to let up a little earlier.

[cowwa-f'n-bunga]

alex, you can't even beat MY falcon, and ive only been playing him for a couple o' weeks. you'll never touch Dika.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!11111!eleven

[Moonchild]

I beat him! I finally beat him! And by two stock. The weird part about it is that I didnt use falco, I switched to fox and just kicked his ***. Note that it only happend once but I'm still going to stay with fox. And by the way Jeff, I did beat your falcon. But only once. Yeah shut up.

[cowwa-f'n-bunga]

i beat yo fox saturday atcher house. now wut?

[Moonchild]

Jeff, you are not from the ghetto, nor are you black, so stop trying; wannabe.

And I never said my Fox was god, just better than my Falco and able to beat SOMETHING that Diki has.

[Hoefler]

I restate my assumptions:

THIS IS RETARDED
and we need character spec. mods cause obviously no mods even care that stupid garbage like this is happening.

[soberfox]

I so completely and totally agree. I unfortunately don't have access to the MBR so it's hard for me to find serious discussion anymore on these forums when it comes to smash. Come to think of it..when it comes to anything.

[Hoefler]

alright sober... me and you will lead the charge into a new era... and stuff...