Worst Matchup For Falco

[soberfox]

From my personal experience, I would have to say either Jigglypuff or the Ice Climbers. I don't have time right now to go into detail of as to why they are my worst, but I can say that it mostly has to do with up throws into death, and the Ice Climbers insane edgeguarding game against Falco. Not to mention they can chain throw him.

There are some other characters that, if played correctly, can give Falco a hard time, but not even close to as hard a time that I have vs Puff or the IC's.

So everyone, what's the worst matchups for YOUR Falco?

[Dr Drew the Dragon]

Well, I know plenty of Falcos, and they all fear Jiggly.

Not IC's though, and CORY lives around here...

IC's can chain throw almost anyone, but Falco's greater range and priority let him seperate them very easily, which is the easiest way to beat the IC's.

Also, I use Marth to beat Falco, up throw and up tilt both make Falco very sad, and then the obligatory Marth having the best edge-guarding and Falco having the worst recovery thing.

[soberfox]

I don't know if I would call Falco's recovery the worst..but it's definetly horrible. Okay, so it may be the worst.

As for the Marth matchup, it can sometimes be tough, depending on if Falco is caught in multiple tippers early, which equal death for him, or if Marth is spiked out of a couple stocks quickly, which can also be accomplished fairly easily. I wouldn't call this a bad matchup, but also not really a "good" one either.

As for me having trouble vs the IC's...maybe it's because I don't have much experience versus them. Their fmash and downsmash's knockback is superb, and usually puts me out of the range of recovery, and even if I can, their edgeguarding is excellent vs Falco anyway. I just find them tough, but since you told me you usually don't see Falco's having trouble with them, I'll try and adjust to beat them.

[cHaNg-sTa]

After Jiggs vs Falco, I would say Marth would be a bad matchup afterwards. The grab range for Marth leads to upthrow and uptilts... those aren't fun. Then the fact that Marth can edgeguard the heck out of Falco makes it even worse. Marth is also one of the harder characters to spike/edgeguard. SHB advancing is much more difficult to began combos simply because Marth's Fsmash/grab comes out so fast that it's difficult to lead in with to start combos. Marth's weight is also difficult to combo well after a certain percentage. Plus half the usable stages have low platforms that enable Marth to juss swing through them at well when Falco is above - also not fun. When it's a stage not like that (FD) up throw combos become so much easier for Marth to perform since no platforms are there to interrupt.

And so on.

[Mr.C]

Marth, Jiggs, Peach, and Kirbs!?!?!??!?!??!?

thats what i think are the main hard matches with falco.
Marths u-throw combos and chain grabs and tippers are *******'s. Jigg's is just a fatass to Falco. Peach cant touch her for some reason. And Kirb's because........just because

[JesusFreak]

Kirby isn't really too much trouble for Falco. I'd say in order: Jiggly, Marth/Peach, Luigi. Falco is also good in dittos <.<

[Mr.C]

O i was joking about Kirb's ;)
OMGWTFBBQHAXX!!!!!!!! we forgot Doc LoL!?!?!?!? he pwns Falco

[Sintenal]

Jfreak- Stop saying luigi does well vs Falco. All of the top Falco players beat the top Luigi players. Blaster just beats luigi too bad. Very hard for Luigi to approach Falco.

Characters that do best vs Falco(based on tourny match ups) Marth, JPuff, and Peach. Sheik can do pretty well, but the shine combos can hurt sheik.

[soberfox]

Mr. C, you are insane. I don't know if this is another one of your "jokes" that Doc pwns Falco, but .. he doesn't. It isn't a horrible matchup for Doc, but Falco has the advantage by a fair margin.

[JesusFreak]

LOL soberfox. But I'm going to have to agree with Mr.C on this. I've played against the best Doc in the US with my Falco and Doc knows how to exploit falco. He has some nasty combos on the bird, and his cape destroys Falco's already horrible recovery.

[soberfox]

Doc is incredibly easy to spike, and falls nicely into about any of Falcos combos. Maybe it's just the Docs that I have played, but I have never had a major problem with them. I don't blow them out or anything, they'll usually bring me to one stock.

And btw, who is the best Doc in the US?

[JesusFreak]

Heh, Doc is not one of the easiest to spike. And I know of no combos Falco has on Doc that simple DI will not diminish.

BTW best Doc (as far as I or anyone else knows) is Caveman.

[soberfox]

Doc's huge fist comes slightly above the ledge just enough to spike when he uses his up B..not to mention you could do it over the edge and get back to the ledge. The cape can stop the spikes from higher up, but theres nothing he can do..when a Doc has to up B..he has to up B, and you can almost always be waiting with a spike.

[cHaNg-sTa]

Doc vs Falco is pretty even if not in Doc's favor actually. Doc is not easy to spike, the warp prevents that. Doc has major throw combos that work on the space animals. Up throw->Fsmash hurts and low to mid percents. When it gets higher and can be followed with a fair or a dthrow to fsmash. Upthrow -> dsmash at 0 percent i believe.. or sumthin like that. Cape really screws up falco's recovery.

But Falco is generally harder to grab if played correctly (like everyone else) so it really comes down to who screws up more.

Heck, I personally dun think Falco would have that much of a trouble against Jiggs if Falco can avoid the grab which isn't impossible.

[soberfox]

What do you mean by the warp prevents that?...I don't get the warp part?

[cHaNg-sTa]

Mario and Doc has a warp that allows them to grab the edge without exactly being close to the edge. Of course, you can always try to edgehog to prevent that, but anyone can. So I don't really consider Falco's spike an advantage since it doesn't really do much unless the opponent screws up the Up+B

[soberfox]

Okay, I know what your talking about, I just never heard of it referred to as a warp. I think everyone has noticed that Doc and Mario can be slightly out of reach of the ledge, and be "sucked" into it. So, yeah I see what your talking about. Maybe it's just against the Doc's I have played against, but I always found him easy to spike, as they only use the warp when it just takes effects on them. In other words, they don't use it on purpose.

[Umbreon]

Originally posted by JesusFreak
Heh, Doc is not one of the easiest to spike. And I know of no combos Falco has on Doc that simple DI will not diminish.

BTW best Doc (as far as I or anyone else knows) is Caveman.

Spike, shine to back kick works as good as ever. If they DI the shine, WD from shine and THEN jump to back kick.

No one else seems to use shine to WD with falco but me?

[Suretman]

I don't know if this counts or not, but I definetely think Falco counters falco.

[soberfox]

Well..in that scenario it just depends on who is more skilled in the Falco ditto.

[FaTmAn2k20]

I would say Peach or Jigglypuff are the worst opponents for a Falco user. Both characters are floaty enough to escape most shine combos, which is a mainstay for most good Falcos. Also, Jigglypuff's aerial mobility/crouch and Peach's floating ability reduces the effectiveness of Falco's blaster (not to say it doesn't still help). Peach has a chain throw on Falco with her up throw, and Jigglypuff has the SAS. I'm not totally sure which one is worse, but they're both really bad. I use Falco as my main, but if I face a Peach or a Jigglypuff I turn to my secondary characters.

[JesusFreak]

Originally posted by UmbreonMow
Spike, shine to back kick works as good as ever. If they DI the shine, WD from shine and THEN jump to back kick.

No one else seems to use shine to WD with falco but me?

Um, all the top Falcos WD, and mnay of the "just below the top" do as well. I know I do as much as possible, altho I've just started trying to assimilate it into my game.

[cHaNg-sTa]

Mow means WD out of a shine with Falco. I guess most people don't WD out of a shine with Falco because Falco's shine shoots them upwards. So it's simply much easier to jump cancel and attack instead of WD.

[JesusFreak]

Heh, I knew what he meant. I meant the same thing. :p

Thanks tho.:)

[soberfox]

I waveshine with Falco on when I shine them at low percents, and when they are flying to far in one direction for my jump to reach them without the quick WD back or fowards.

When I miss a shine however, I usually just do a SHL out of it.

[Kyari]

I am going to agree with a couple of folks on this one: Purin definitely neutralizes a lot of Falco's strong points, and abuses his weak points. For example, SHL. Purin floats around above Falco, doesn't touch the ground. Falco's ground-pinning advantage is eliminated. Falco's shine can only hit Purin as much as Falco can get Purin in range. The Wall of Pain gives Purin aerial mobility, and Falco is really a horizontal-vertical character. Purin can float on curves in the air, and Falco can't respond to this very well being the fast-faller he is. Purin also capitalizes on Falco's short and exploitable recovery move with the bair, fair, nair, uair, dair, air F+B, or even a combination of them. it doesn't matter what air move Purin throws on top of Falco, Purin can make it back and Falco can't. I'm thinking 7 to 3 Purin.

Mario and Doc, I think, have a slight edge-guarding advantage, and can lessen the effects of SHL greatly, but aren't really a counter-character like Purin. There's something that I can't put my finger on yet though, that makes Falco good also. Someone help me manifest my suspicion into words so that my 5 to 5 would gain some validity.

Marth has a range advantage, but a problem against the SHL. It'd probably score 6 to 4 Marth here.

Peach gets frequently interrupted by SHL, but at the same time demolishes Falco with throw+move or move+throw chains. I'd say it's 6.5 to 3.5 Peach, but it probably depends upon the stage.

Any disagreements?

[Mr.C]

Fisrt of all. Doc's F-smash kills Falco around 70% on most levels.
All Doc has to do at is dash attack f-smash or d-throw f-smash and u-throw f-smash, all the combos work and are deadly. Not to mention that his b-throw is strong as crap and his pills and cape messes up falco and fox

[cHaNg-sTa]

Mario is not all great against Falco, and actually I think Falco has a great advantage over Mario due to the fact that Mario has no great knockback attacks near his body. Falco gives him a tough time juss by breathing down his backs with SHL + shine spikes and so on. Doc can push Falco out much more easily with his strong dsmash and fsmash with pills a much better interrupter.

Dash attack to fsmash doesn't really work. It only works when the person doesn't tech or techs in place. After once, it's really easy to learn to tech roll.

[Kyari]

About Doc I guess I see your point. His F-smash isn't exactly bad, and I suppose that due to the distinct angle at which Falco is sent from that move, he would be hard-pressed trying to recover. Mario's isn't as powerful, but has greater range, bla bla bla... and the pills make sense. I need more local competition to show me these flaws in my Falco -_-

I'll keep Mario where he is at 5 to 5, and Doc goes to 6 to 4 Doc.

[RyokoYaksa]

One musn't underestimate the power of Falco's shine vs. Peach and Jigglypuff. Shine juggles kill them at absurdly low percents on stages with low ceilings (50% or less on Corneria x_x). With Falco's ground jump, reaching them in the air post-shine is hardly a problem. Most other places Peach destroys Falco, but on low celing stages she has to be very careful.

[soberfox]

Ryoko is right, and my favorite level to get shine kills vs Peach and Puff is probably Green Greens. The triple shine doesn't get any easier than on this level, and just shining them while they are in the air around 80% can usually net a KO.

[FlowinWater]

Ha, Ive had alot of trouble with these three characters:

Marth
Peach
and Ice climbers.

Jiggs can be killed VERY easily. Shine to UP A. Or hey CC to Dtilt. Just owns the puff ball. Falco can totally controll the pace of the jiggs fight since he has the laser, and is the faster character. THe only thing jiggs can do is up throw to Rest. And grabing a Falco is NOT easy. and if jiggly does grab falco falco can always use proper DI. There are many set ups for rest though the Falco just has to be careful. If you see Jiggs in the air and a good distance away from you I always full jump and shoot lasers just to get damage.

Marth...... ARG i just hate him he can kill my ***** falco rather quickly.

Peach is just annoying and outprioritises falco in everyway possible, cept the laser heh.

Ice climbers...... omg Chu dat I don't like you:beezo:

[Mr.C]

Peach is no problem *thats why the short hop laser was invented* and so many shine combos and things that break her shield. although fox has an easier time with the shine combos against peach

[FlowinWater]

Yea but SHLing only works great on FD anyways. and people RARELY break anybody's sheild. Peach is an uphill battle for Falco because falco really is limited. If Falco comes from above Peach can just Uptilt him away, very gay, the downsmash owns him, and the vegetable setups are just NASTY.

[Mr.C]

well if you have trouble with Falco then just pick BOWZAH!!@#!@#! PWNZOAH!!!@##@#@!$TO TEH MAX0RZ!@###@!$#@4

[Volroth]

Hmm lately I've been playing my friends Ganon and Fox and I've been having trouble. When I discovered that I liked Falco I practiced, later he became my main. When I played his Ganon and Falco I totally blew him away but I guess after playing him a lot more he caught on to my strategy and beat me. Ever since I then I can't beat him. Got any advice? I'm going to compete in a local tourny soon and I want to touch up my skills because I will most likely face foxes and ganon's in the tourney.

[soberfox]

Before I can offer you advice..

Do you SHL? Do you even know what it is? What about L-canceling..or wavedashing? If you don't know what that stuff is, check the Forum Lexicon or whatever it's called, and learn what all that stuff means. Then, start doing it. Then maybe I can help you with those matchups..which I really don't find all that difficult. Ganondorf is slow and is easily spiked, and Fox..well I don't know, some Foxes are tough, not most of the time though.

[Tiller420]

i found falco very effective against marth cause of his recovery is easy to drill kick and falcos FS is kinda like marths FS but instead a leg

[Tiller420]

i think peachs up tilt wouldnt effect me much just use up-b or over-b colse to her cause it well bring you far away so she wont hit u( i usuualy use up-b and go cornered away form the person and hit the ground cause makes it recovery fast

[BlackFalco]

In my opionion as a Falco player only three characters have ever beat me in the tourneys iv been to.

1. Peach - Beat me with her throws and her onions

2. Dr. Mario - Fast and deadly at the same time

3. Sheik - Very fast and good with throws and would change into zelda for a better chance at grabbing the edge with her awesome up B move