Doc,Mario=tourny player

[itsme..Mario]

Do doc or mario have the stuff to do well in a tourny? I was just wondering cause i am always hearing bout people saying that some characters just don't have the **** to place high.

[uwantsumshrimp]

somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Mario is top tier in Japan. So, yes, Mario and the Doc have what it takes to do very well. howeever, i think that you have to be a step above the competition mind games wise with mar n doc. They're so basic, and predictable in my opinion. They have the tools to do well, it just takes a great player to take them to the top. not that that isn't true for many other chars as well.

peace

[Powda193]

while its true mario and doc arent considered the best players... it really doesnt matter. there are plenty of people that put no faith in the tiers...i mean, chu placed 3rd at tg6 with the ice climbers and most people would say that the ICs are too low on the tier list to do well in a tourny. best advice is just to pick a character that matches your style--no matter the tier.

[Cyphus]

iiwell, i use doc to win tournies in my state :/
he being my favorite best-character, and all
but most tournies give the option to change characters..and if my oponent is another doc, or a character i'm less confident w/ doc, i'm just gonna use falco,marth,ganon.
either way...
There's nothing wrong w/ doc or mario, if anything the well varied attacks, allow them to carry mindgames in more scenarios than other characters...as aposed to just be overlyproficient in a certain category


as long as u have experience against ur oponents character, and know what to look out for/exploit....u have just a good chance as w/ another character.
My friend recently dropped his sheik for Samus...finding it lose to my doc and ganon. And i'm not really anything significantly better...i just learned to watch out for sheik's strong points and maximize the punishment.

[itsme..Mario]

Sweet i am a pretty decent doc/mario player. My only downfall is that i don't have to much experience agaisn't other players. I pretty much play agaisn't the same people. Hopefully that doesn't hurt me in tournys to much. Would it?

[HoodedHomie1234]

if you only play against one person, you will often develop bad habits because you become accustomed to only his playstyle

that way, you will sometimes do something that will almost always work on the opponent you play, but not on someone else

i play against one person, i dont think its too hard, but youll get bad habits(my opponent tends to not sweetspot the edge alot, making bad edgeguarding habits)

[PipeDooDoo]

Doc should DEFINATLEY be top tier...

out of grabs with low percentage (shield grab or dash grab)do upthrow then juggle him with an up arial then on your way down give him a back arial... it works very well at low percentages...

if youre getting juggled too much whip out a sex kick...

Many people play Doc as a defensive character spamming his pills... i use him as an offensive character... i usually come attacking with a back arial L-cancel then Down Smash... then a up arial juggle to do damage, then maybe a forward arial for the finish K.O. ... Good players will be harder to hit with the f arial if they know how to D.I....

im just about unstoppable with Doc... i would definatley use him in a tourney - that is, if there was one here in hawaii...

He is an AWSOME character with the use of L-cancelling... L cancel his D arial, F arial, or B arial into a Downsmash... rinse, repeat!!!

[Powda193]

i actually dont think you can cancel a B aerial... but it doesnt matter because mario owns the doctor. they are both very good characters.

the bottom line is that you have a chance at winning a tourny with any character... except pichu.

[Aurafox]

*has won a tourney wiff Pichu..*

It ain't impossible, but urf I'll only do it that once.

[Glide]

Uh, yeah you can cancel the back-aerial. I honestly don't see what would stop it from happening =/

[PipeDooDoo]

who was it that said b arial cant be cancelled??? DUDE you must be all NOOB cuz the back arial CAN be cancelled - in fact - one of the best to cancel to follow up with a D-Smash or even another short hop backwards b arial L-cancel (depending on the dudes percentage)... you havnt lived to see true talent in doc unless youve seen some1 spam his back arial much like JigglyPuffs wall of pain (without the second hit that is)... you can cancel any arial (A button move) as long as the animation of the move is finished or almost finished!!!

[PipeDooDoo]

oh yeah and powda, im RAW with doc - ill tear your Mario to shreads... one thing Doc got that Mario cant stand up to is his f arial... its one of the best arial K.O. moves - one that Mario aint got (mario only gets a gay *** spike - and trust me - youll NEVER get a spike on me!!!) although i havnt entered tourneys, ive DEMOLISHED all my friends who have this game...

not trying to be too cocky, but im NO NOOB and i know my doc would easily trample your Mario...

[Glide]

Well, it's tough to land an f-air on an opponent who's looking out for it; just a tad too slow. I also think that Mario has a slight advantage over Doc. I can think of two things that'll shift the focus to Doc, and those are pills and the back-throw; but Mario can still put those down. All in all, Mario's combo prowess can take doc down a notch, but of course, Mario has difficulty landing a real good KO shot. Doc however, has difficulties with recovery. Thus, he's not in too great of shape against Mario. It'd definitely be real close though.

[PipeDooDoo]

with my mind games and shield grab, his Mario would garuntee go down to me... ive seen vids of Azen, Mike, Cava and Andy and im definatley there type calibur player... ive been looking for tourneys here in hawaii to shocase talent... recently i stopped at a local PC gaming lounge and owned everyone there at smash... ive taken out great players, who used top tier characters like sheik, captain falcon, even marth (all who are better characters then Mario!!!) ... unfortunatley for them im a little too raw with Doc... Mario got all the speed but no KO power what-so-ever!!!

I CAN CONNECT HIM WITH MY F-SMASH AND KO HIM!!! it just takes good timing and skill... docs F Smash comes out slighty quicker with great knockback, unlike marios, his f smash is slower and wacks guys straight down...

most of my KOs is from mindgaming with a shuffle - then when they try to hit me (and miss) ill run at em and wavedash (while running) and B*TCH EAT THAT D-SMASH KICK TO YOUR BALLS... mario has no chance against a SKILLED doc player - i repeat mario has NO chance...

[Glide]

Well, that really depends on how much skill the mario player has, and how they play. Keep in mind: It's always different going to a new area. New styles, new ideas, new people, who all have different habits and combos not to mention emphasis on different techniques and different sorts of mind-games. In either case, you may wanna take it easy on the whole "I'm gonna beat you" thing; it tends to irk people (some would consider it spam because of the nature of the thread).

[Big Burn]

I cant believe that you are the cocky with Dr Mario. Mario owns Dr Mario anyday of the ****ing week. ,my ****ing ***. i dont even need to get into the reasons why mario is better than the dr because its so ****ing obvious. i know my mario can take your dr mario down so easily its not even funny.

[Blind]

Jeez guys, relax. You've never even played each other, so chill.

Sure thing _both_ of them are tourney calibur. They've got juggling skill, the cape for ruining recovery, they aren't lightweight, have decent speed, can't be juggled that easily... they have a lot of things going for them. The cape in particular is the best way to annihilate fox and falco (as well as u-throw to smash combos) since it ruins their predictable recovery so badly. Same with any character who can't grab the stage facing backwards... Also ruins falco's SHL, especially if you hit him with the reflected laser and the cape, that's an easy 10 percent with combo capabilities. I prefer mario's cape more, since it has longer duration wider range and aids his recovery more, but I prefer doc's pills as a projectile over all. FFLC'd u-air is crazy for starting combos, since it segues easily into throws... overall both Marios have enough strengths to make them highly competetive.

[PipeDooDoo]

i dont mean to spam boards or be all cocky, but this is gonna be my last time, id own your mario with doc... id bet a paycheck id even take you out starting at 150% and not even worry about getting KOd by the time i finish you!!! like that other dude said it depends on the player...
What makes you think mario is better than doc?!?! Speed?!?! All tourney players know docs better than mario... just about all docs moves are better (ill give mario the b throw)...
mario cant even KO with any of his arials, maybe a b arial and a u arial but there percentage gotta be sky high for a KO... how many times i gotta say?!?! he got mad speed ill give him that - but my doc can move JUST as fast when using a wavedash...

your mario taking out my doc WOULD indeed be VERY funny, cuz itd never happen!!!

[Big Burn]

idk anymore. i could be a ******* and just say i could kill u but i wont. i think that mario and dr mario are equal probably. But for me i like marios better recovery and speed. i guess its all preference. and it does all depend on the player. but i guarantee u that if we played it would be some good competive games because i have been playing with mario forever and im pretty ****ing awesome. im sure u are to. but i guess i could talk about fighting u all day and it wont matter because i will never get to play u. o well im out

[fraypika]

Well i am the **** with both doc and mario so maybe I have the best of 2 worlds and kick both ur ***** hahahahaha

I never really tried mario's or doc's cape on everyone for ruining people's recovery. I know it works way good for fox and falco but who else does the cape work on?

[Cyphus]

1st off..if u can't give any reasons why mario is better...u obviously are full of bull****.


2ndly...Doc is heavier.....by how much?....just....BARELY...like i'm talking...not even noticable..and that tiny bit doesn't help in most situations

3rdly..mario is NOT faster...it is only an illusion that he is...by doing more backflips in his back doublejump....more hits in his Doc tornado...and yes....a quicker A,A,A(which realistically is worse than Doc's slow one..because Doc's sets up for downsmash alot easier) and deals more damage

4thly...Doc deals more damage w/ his specials, and as far as the A attacks go...they break about even! w/ mario having a more damage dealing UPsmash, UpAir and BackAir...and doc having a more damage dealing DownSmash, ForwardSmash. These are just examples...
if u add all the damages from all their attacks up..Doc wins

5thly....who is Stronger? 1st i would like to say....as smashes go....their downsmash is ALOT more useful than their upsmash...and doc's is alot stronger, while mario's upsmash is stronger. Therefore doc takes the advantage in smash strength. and doc's weaker upsmash proves useful..because it is not too power...making it easier to combo from! which IS its best use, NOT KOing(both for characters)
I can put it this way....their strength actually balances out, pretty nicely...BUT doc's stronger moves..are better moves in general...while mario's stronger moves...aren't as easily used as doc's.


WHOAMG!!! mario's recovery is like....so better!!!! pu-leez. all mario has is a very tiny boost from the cape...he does not jump higher, further, nor his tornado or UpB giving any more payoff. and remember..Doc IS slightly heavier...THUS whereas the Cape might help..his weight stopped him from flying that much further.


mario vs. doc is of course, a matter of preference...but Doc still has the better-best moves. F.Air, Megavitamins, Downsmash.

[Glide]

Believe it or not, Mario is slightly quicker, though it's not due to his running speed. It has more to do with the trajectory his attacks work with. Mario tend to draw people in with his attacks; this allows him to combo slightly better. He also tends to do a lot more with the in-close game (partially due to a lack of projectiles). Also, Mario has a much much exploitable f-smash simply due to that tiny kicker in the range and the sweetspot deal. That amounts to a sort of Marth-esque factor that Mario can KO very well at very specific percentages against certain characters. If you play Marth, you most likely know what I'm talking about. I also find that Mario gets more out of his throws. They don't become grossly powerful too early, and can still make for some real nice lead-ins at nearly all percentages; especially if the Mario player is particularly talented, and can finish a combo with a quick f-air to ground the opponent. From that point, it can lead to a tech-chase and a grab to start it all over again. Yeah, they're different. Just the way that the f-air changes can make and break the character. Also along those lines, you gotta watch Mario's Sex-kick; arguably more utilized than Doc's. Mostly due to the spiking property of Mario's f-air, but it definitely gives Mario the edge in an aerial battle. Mario starts with a good strong kick, while Doc has to drop in with his, making it harder to connect with at the point of its full strength - especially against a grounded opponent who's just waiting for a good opportunity to shield grab. Mario ends up with a surprise advantage simply because he doesn't have to wait on it to make it as powerful as it can be. Thus, shffl'ing it give him slightly more benefit, where as Doc only gets to use it as somewhat of a random throw out, or a combo finisher where his f-air does a better job anyway, and it probably won't see a whole lot of use in a good Doc player who really knows that it's a bit laggy, and yeah, you can see it coming most of the time. I think we can all agree that when you do land the f-air, it's usually because the opponent is being stupid, or there's nothing the opponent can do about it (read, combo finisher). In general, yeah, they're very different. Yeah, Mario's played a lot faster because he's better that way. Sure, you can play Doc just as fast, but why would you? In that attempt, you'd lose the power that Doc really needs to win most big tournaments. There's a reason that people don't abuse Doc's u-air and Sex-kick. They're good in certain situations (like Mario's d-smash, and f-air) but in general, you'll see a whole lot more of the f-air and b-air. And let me just say this: Yes, Mario's cape does help that much.

[fraypika]

Like i said i have played both doc and mario and are very good with both of them and i believe out of experience that mario's recovery is alot better i get back tens of times more better then i would with doc. I do not think you know what your talking about and plus if doc gets spiked by somebody like sheik doc is ****ed and when i am mario I can manage to get back with mario. This is out of my experience. I prefer mario over doc....mario does have fireballs which are very useful if you know how to use him,not megavitamins, but hey megavitamins are avoidable. They really aren't that great. Mario's cape is better too, it is quicker i think anyways.

[Cyphus]

Originally posted by Glide
Believe it or not, Mario is slightly quicker, though it's not due to his running speed. It has more to do with the trajectory his attacks work with. Mario tend to draw people in with his attacks; this allows him to combo slightly better. He also tends to do a lot more with the in-close game (partially due to a lack of projectiles). Also, Mario has a much much exploitable f-smash simply due to that tiny kicker in the range and the sweetspot deal. That amounts to a sort of Marth-esque factor that Mario can KO very well at very specific percentages against certain characters. If you play Marth, you most likely know what I'm talking about. I also find that Mario gets more out of his throws. They don't become grossly powerful too early, and can still make for some real nice lead-ins at nearly all percentages; especially if the Mario player is particularly talented, and can finish a combo with a quick f-air to ground the opponent. From that point, it can lead to a tech-chase and a grab to start it all over again. Yeah, they're different. Just the way that the f-air changes can make and break the character. Also along those lines, you gotta watch Mario's Sex-kick; arguably more utilized than Doc's. Mostly due to the spiking property of Mario's f-air, but it definitely gives Mario the edge in an aerial battle. Mario starts with a good strong kick, while Doc has to drop in with his, making it harder to connect with at the point of its full strength - especially against a grounded opponent who's just waiting for a good opportunity to shield grab. Mario ends up with a surprise advantage simply because he doesn't have to wait on it to make it as powerful as it can be. Thus, shffl'ing it give him slightly more benefit, where as Doc only gets to use it as somewhat of a random throw out, or a combo finisher where his f-air does a better job anyway, and it probably won't see a whole lot of use in a good Doc player who really knows that it's a bit laggy, and yeah, you can see it coming most of the time. I think we can all agree that when you do land the f-air, it's usually because the opponent is being stupid, or there's nothing the opponent can do about it (read, combo finisher). In general, yeah, they're very different. Yeah, Mario's played a lot faster because he's better that way. Sure, you can play Doc just as fast, but why would you? In that attempt, you'd lose the power that Doc really needs to win most big tournaments. There's a reason that people don't abuse Doc's u-air and Sex-kick. They're good in certain situations (like Mario's d-smash, and f-air) but in general, you'll see a whole lot more of the f-air and b-air. And let me just say this: Yes, Mario's cape does help that much.

WOW...let me get this straight...Mario is faster than Doc..Because of his sex kick being stronger quicker...and his trajectory angles pull in more.
m-hm..that makes about 3 cents
but then u change ur mind, and say doc can be played just as fast, but why would u want to?
so ur claiming u should play doc slower than mario, because it will make him stronger...like his sex kick...oh, and by the way-Mario's air game, Up and Back A ARE Stronger..so how is that suppose to make him a better comboer?
DOC is the one who can combo better, because his A,A,A pulls in, his UpAir and backair doesn't send them as far, and his upsmash is a perfect settup as well.
as far as i'm concerned mario has a better UpTilt, whereas combo setting up is concerned.
And aerial pills can be easily comboed off of, not to mention...grabbing them, if they shield. honestly...fireballs are easier to retreat with. but they still don't stack up to the Pills :D
and doc has one of the best DownSmashes in the game...abusable in almost any situation, since it pushes shields away, avoiding easy shield grab, hones all of mario's qualities(reach,speed,priority) but is 1.5x the strength....that handicap from Doc, cuts mario really deep, to be as so easily forgiven from even 2 or 3 of his other slightly better attacks.

bleh, sorry...despite having a temperment here, i'm confident i didn't say anything i might take back later.

[Glide]

Well, lemme re-iterate what I said before: Doc and Mario are very close to equal. Let's just get that straight up.

The reason you don't wanna use that play style though with Doc, is simply because it doesn't work as well for him. Sure, it's possible, but the angles that work with Mario sometimes just hit a little bit too hard, or a little too far to the side with Doc. I'll quote myself a bit here, to make sure you understand what I'm trying to say... "Believe it or not, Mario is slightly quicker, though it's not due to his running speed. It has more to do with the trajectory his attacks work with." Now, aside from Doc's triple A beatdown, their attacks come out just as quick as one another's. The point is that the play style makes Mario a bit faster by necessity, and practicality while Doc doesn't need, or in most cases, want that. That's the point I'm trying to make here. Never once did I "change my mind" as to how quick Doc can be, it's simply that his moveset doesn't cater to it.

Yes; I noted that Mario's up and back aerials are stronger. Almost mentioned it in my post, but decided agianst it. There really wasn't a whole lot of a point in saying that it has more knock-back, unless it was incredibly significant, gamebreaking, or very interesting. I actually believe that Mario's kinda dependent on his b-air a lot more than Doc is, seeing that he can kinda it to clear out, and has good edge-hog to b-air opportunities where Doc-mario simply has the whole d-smash thing going for him.

u-tilt as a combo set up? That's news to me; I use it as a filler attack; just kinda throw it out after a throw or something to tack an extra few percent on. Maybe it has some merit though; maybe at high percents, d-throw, u-tilt, to sex-kick/b-air into edge-guard?

Yeah, the sex-kick thing is minute, but it does make the difference. While Mario has an easy time landing a good strong sex-kick, (thus, more options) Doc has to wait to a higher percentage to make it work for him. Totally makes a difference. If you don't believe me, try to string a combo from 0% and finish with a sex-kick on both characters. It's a lot harder to land a good strong sex-kick with Doc's set up, because as it's been said many a time, "Doc's just messed up like that."

Yeah; pills own the fireballs. It's kinda sad really; you figure that something on fire would beat out a medicine, but eh, then again, you'd really not expect Shiek to own the **** out of so many characters at first glance either. Well, at least I didn't =P

Hmm; I don't know about how well the d-smash pushes away shielders. In general, I find that most shields thrown out by players are strong and result in less slide distance. A shield grab is generally reserved for an aerial approach anyway. I don't honestly see how Doc's d-smash is so much better except that it clears so much better. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they have the same speed of execution, and range.

and before I forget:


Originally posted by meleemasterx
but they still don't stack up to the Pills


Was that an inteded pun? 'cause if so, that was awesome.

[Cyphus]

well...as little as i do play mario...sort of purposely, to not mess up my leet doc game...last night i went and played a couple hours of just him. I figured i'd be open minded enough to look for all his qualities with a fresh breathe, instead of memory, and occasional fun matches using him...not even adding up to 1044 KOs.(while my doc is at 8,802)


Of course, playing him as i much WOULD doc, i'm can only compare stuff that i know doc is good at(since i wouldn't use something bad, w/ him)
As edgeguarding goes w/ the B.Air, i find Mario's isn't as good. Docs is a little weaker, but the angle is so much lower, while mario's sends them upward...many times giving them even less distance then before. but i can see how this backward Shuffled can work FOR mario at earlier damages, while Doc's would be more useful at later percents.

With Doc's sex kick saving him from juggles, like mario's....it serves its purpose just as good....it won't be as strong, that given...but its gonna get him out of combos...
Now Mario, i guess, would rely on his sex kick for his power in the air, while doc has his F.Air, so he doesn't need it as an aerial combo finisher...but i use Doc's Sex kick, in a way that mario cannot.
Running SH Sexkick, through an oponent's projectile and hitting oponent afterward. This seems kinna flashy and seems like it wouldn't happen to often, but i do it quite a bit. By the time doc gets to the oponent, it is strong. This gives Doc another powerful strike for a certain situation, that mario cannot have, while he still has his DocPunch to fair w/ Mario's Sexkick, and his own sex kick, still getting him out of weak juggles.


and lol, no i wasn't trying to make a pun w/ the "stack up to the pills"...but since we do agree the pills are better, and the mario's cape is obviously better than docs....does that really break them even?...call me biased, but i still think the pills tricks outweigh the recovery boost, because the pill advantages are used all the time, while the cape advantage only helps a small percent. Either way, and i'm going to repeat myself again, all of Doc's B attacks do more damage...i could confidently say, Doc is overall better Special-wise, keeping all factors and variables in mind, w/out going into details for the up and down B.
Additionally he is heavier, and overall deals more damage w/ all his A's too, has a slightly stronger back throw, can use his A,A,...to stun into a d.smash, and gets to wear black.

i dunno, maybe i'm crazy...but i'm not saying doc WOOPS mario...i just think he has enough tiny little factors that build up enough, to put him above, afterall..they are more identical than any other clone characters.

and i didn't expect you to be so mild about this, i'm glad it didn't turn into an arguement, despite me taking a slight offense. n_n

[Glide]

Eh, I just looked at it and realized that it was really a mild thing anyway; after all, everyone knows it's a close fight anyway, (as far as equally skilled players go that is) so I didn't really see any point in getting bent ouf of shape about it; especially since I really didn't think you would take serious offense at my statements. Anyway, on to randomness/response time! WHOO!

Sex-kick through projectiles never really did it for me; I usually just ended up "camping the camper" with a cape/shield combo. Never liked having to rush an opponent who was putting up a wall; it just kinda puts you in an awkward position on the rush down. However, it does work if you can put yourself in the right position, so bravo on that one.

As far as edge-guarding goes, Mario's b-air is really what gets him kills I notice; that and his f-smash. Granted, Doc can do the same, but that's generally not what happens. It's usually d-smash, b-throw, or f-air. Mario's game is more reliant on the edge-guard, and as such it ends up that he really does count on the strength of the b-air; not only to do the edge-hop b-air to edge-hog, but also as a decent send-out in conjunction with his sex-kick, or throws.

Hmm; I dunno. Doc Mario is heavier, true, but is it really that significant? I mean, Pichu is lighter than Geedubya, but they're both still real light. Mario and Doc are really very close in weight, and I don't see how that's really too big of a deal. The cape however, has its power in being able to stop momentum. It's fairly common knowledge that the Shine cancels ALL motion, and that Marth's sword dance does an okay job of it. The cape is really the same thing, except that Mario's gives him a slight lift. That little lift, along with giving you a little vertical distance, can equate to horizontal distance, which due to the general leaning of Mario and Doc to the floaty side, albeit slight, does amount to a good amount of horizontal recovery. So really, I'd say that pills do turn the game to Doc, but Mario still has fireballs. Fireball + Mario's Cape generally comes to equal Pills + Doc's Cape. Mario can still do some setups with his fireballs, but they're a little different and usually not seen simply because people play down the fireball game with Mario a lot more than they really should.

[UNDlSPUT3D]

...Glide...Just being blunt...You don't know a thing about smash. Hush....=)

[Cyphus]

actually glide brings up good points, and a good arguement, though i can't fully agree.

saying he doesn't know much, isn't say too much..since u, urself did so recently post that Mario is quicker than doc, (*ahem*)possibly explaining why his sex to platform cancel doesn't work.

i dunno.maybe yall are buds, and u were just messing w/ him. Either way, its all cool.

off topic now(which would actually be returning to the next most recent topic.......which come to think of it, is STILL off the Real topic)doc being heavier than mario, makes it seem alot more than what it is. Afterall, its really unnoticable outside VERY high damage-potentially-KOing hits. And i don't think its worth mentioning alone; thats why i just threw it in there w/ a bunch of tiny other things.(though the weight advantage is, IMO, prolly even below all the others)

i've never been a big fan up mario/doc's UpTilt. Theres 3 occasions where i might use it.

1.after an upthrow, on low damage. Usually they can DI and tech away afterward. but i just try to chase(WD-grab) again, if i can...but in most cases, i prefer to smash/aerial.
2.aerial defense, it reaches better than his smash, and the legnth of impact frames, last a good bit, so i find it more reliable, and not so demanding on timing. Its very easy to followup into an aerial from mind damage, but its not something i'll ever use in most fights since it usually only exchanges hits...i'm more the wavedash-backwards-into-smash/cape-kinna guy.
3.pop someone who is rolling back onto the ledge after hanging on the edge. This is prolly the most useful thing i get out of it. Since it lasts alot longer than almost all his other attacks, its pretty easy to hit somebody, exiting the roll animation, before they get a chance to shield. Maybe i'm more safe than daring in this situation, for not using a downsmash, but i figure at high damage, it doesn't matter, cuz i could DocPunch,Edgehog/guard after anyway.

All in all...most fights i won't use doc uptilt...its not a horribly bad move, i just find it not good enough to fit in a fast game, where their trajectory would be more predictable from his upsmash.

do any of ya'll use his Uptilt? o_O

[fraypika]

Bleh all this talk about weight more powerful moves blah blah blah They might increase your chances but the winner in probably about all matches is who knows how to take advantage of mistakes and make other people make mistakes. This is true in all skill levels. There is also the obvious that if you have a way good person and a noob that the way good perosn will win. But lets say you have the same skilled doc and same skilled mario its all about the mistakes. Also knowing how to utilize your character and when to use what moves when is pretty helpful to. But most of the game is about mistakes.

[VilNess]

Hmmm... quite interesting conversation here, and I read it ALL!
props to glide and meleemasterx for not making this a flame war.

Ive been playing Doc and Mario now and then but recently got interested in Mario.

Someone mentioned Marios A,A,A to be worse than Doc.. prolly true but its still hard to compare these because they should be used differenently. Mario´s A,A,A is good against shieldgrabbers because it has speed in it. And marios A,A,A can be quickly be followed with a lightshield by pressing Z for the last A on that combo (and it can be the 2 or 3 hit depends on situation/player) . This is useful because usually players who get caught in these rapid comboes try to DI away and/or response with their fast attacks, dtilts or evensmashes. they hit your light shield which will send you away from them and mario can try to punish their possible lag by Fsmash or grab or something.
This probably doesn´t work against Link because of his hookshot...


And I think marios Fair is kinda good for racking up damage. if you connect with it then it can followed up with another Fair if they are on they ground or something else if they go in air. I once saw a video where mario comboed 4 Fairs in a row... first 2 where on bottom platform and the other 2 were on left platform on that Yoshis stage.