MookieRah's Roy Guide version 1.2

[MookieRah]

W00t w00t, version 1.0 of the Roy guide has been released!

Know this, I plan to continuously work on this guide, because there are a lot of things I haven't put in it yet that I want to. Also, later version will have images, graphs, perhaps even vids on certain aspects of Roy to help the endeaver of becoming a better Roy player and putting an ease on the learning curve.

Without further adeu! My baby, the MookieRah's Roy Guide!

[Edit]

Update changes:

MookieRah's Roy Guide version 1.1------

Added more information on Down Smash and Up Smash in the Moveset (Normal moves) section.
Added a few 4 hit DED combos in the Double Edge Dance section.
Added more information on Blazer in the Blazer section.

MookieRah's Roy Guide version 1.2------

Added more information on Neutral Air and Down Air in the Moveset (Aerials) section.
Added Neutral Air > Forward Smash combo in the combo section.
Added more information on Reverse Blazer.
Added more information on the Up Throw > Forward Smash combo in the combo section.
Added Roy Tippers and Anti Shield Grab in the mindgames section.

[MookieRah]

Contents:

1: Introduction
2: Roy's Moveset
3: DED
4: Blazer
5: Combos and Setups
6: Edge guarding
7: Mind Games
8: Closing Thoughts
9: Credits/Special Thanks




Introduction

Heyas all. Since I haven't been around the smashboards for ages like a lot of people here, it is safe to assume that I need an introduction. I am Jason Smith aka MookieRah. I am far from the best Roy player out there, and far from the most knowledgeable person to make this guide, but as it stands there hasn't been a Roy guide in over 2 years O_o. So someone has to do it eh? I would like to mention, that this is a guide to help people who are new to Roy to have a general idea as to how to use him. Don't expect to read this guide and become an awesome Roy player overnight. Like pretty much everything in this world, practice makes perfect. Hopefully though, this guide will help you as you practice with Roy. Please note, that in this guide I will outline how I play him as well as provide insightful tips from expert Roy players. Please don't let my guide discourage you from experimenting on your own though, and be sure to post your thoughts about certain moves/techniques so I can make this guide a great source of info.




Roy's Moveset

Roy is a vastly different beast than Marth. There moves have the same animation and frames, but the similarities end there. Roy's gravity, weight, sweet spots, attacks, grabs, and B moves are all different. Roy is a ground fighter with good ground attacks and a decent arsenal of aerial attacks that work best when shuffled or short hopped. In other words, it's usually best to not jump around and pretend to be Marth. Almost all of Roy's attacks are skewed by crouch canceling, especially his aerials. This requires you to rely on combos from throws and mind games to find an opening. Roy's arsenal of attacks allow him to do well against fast fallers, but horrible against floaters. It's really hard to combo in a forward-smash when they fly from a weak strike. It's also hard to land a powerful attack on them in this situation. The same goes if your opponent racks up too much damage.




Normal Move Listing:

Neutral A:
A basic slash attack.
Damage 2-6%
Frames: 11
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderate
Priority: Moderate
My Thoughts: It does decent damage, has good range, and comes out rather quickly. I really don't use this much, but when I do it's usually to swat someone that is coming down on me. I use the first hit of DED in a very similar fashion.
Azen: I'd rather do down tilt or forward smash.
Neo: A good move for when you expect someone to attempt a grab or jump out of the shield, use it when canceling a f-air that isn't spaced far enough to avoid a shield grab or just when you want a quick hit for someone leaving a shield.


Running Attack:
A broad running slash attack.
Damage 6-12%
Frames: 6
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderately long
My Thoughts: Good range and decent damage, but it's wind down lag is pretty crappy IMO. I use it in combos or to catch my opponent in a roll.
Azen: I recommend not to use, too many bad sides.
Neo: Not that great of a move by itself, however when linked with an aerial it can set up, use it to catch opponents flying away at higher percents for an f-air or n-air.


Forward Tilt:
A quick strong slash.
Damage 8-10%
Frames: 11
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderate
My Thoughts: This is like a mini f-smash. It comes out quick and it's wind down lag is less than the f-smash. I use this against smash happy Marths and Roys because it will come out quicker than their smashes.
Azen: I don't use this much, like the neutral a I would rather do a down+tilt or forward smash instead of this.
Neo: This should mainly be used as in edge guard/spaced moved. Many people won't expect the range and considerate speed of an ftilt near the edge and therefore may fail to DI it, however in combat if spaced it can also be helpful so it's more of a conditional attack.

Down Tilt:
A ducking stab attack.
Damage 6-10%
Frames: 11
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderate
My Thoughts: Wow, this is one amazing move, definitely one of his best IMO (if not the best). It sets up for great combos at low percent, has great range, decent damage, is pretty fast, is a relatively safe to pull off, and knocks the opponent upwards where you can combo them at low to moderate percents.
Azen: r0x0rs move, this sets up for any aerial, or even for simple forward smashes against the gravity chars. Abuse it :D. It barely has any lag either.
Neo: Roy's best tilt, it can be cancelled with a jump, a dash, or another tilt. Also a defensive move as well, keep this as a main part of your strategy when canceling aerials but don't spam it because it gets predictable.

Up Tilt:
An upward arching slash.
Damage 6-8%
Frames: 12
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderate
My Thoughts: A pretty slow attack. It has pretty good horizontal range and great vertical range, decent damage, and good knockback. I really don't use it too often due to it's lag afterwards.
Azen: Prolly better to use up aerial instead, this move is soo slow, so only use it to end combos.
Neo: Not that great of a tilt but still useable, it should mainly be used after a chain of up airs or a single up air to send the opponent back into the air and start juggling them again.

*Forward Smash:
A lunging vertical arching slash.
Damage 10-20% 26% on max charge
Start-up lag: moderate
Wind-down lag: moderately long
My Thoughts: Roy's most powerful smash attack and overall best kill move. It is very powerful, has great range (even at the sweet spot), and has some godly knockback. Only problem is that it is relatively laggy.
Azen: Use this whenever you know your opponent will be open, his main killer move. Abuse it as much as you can. Takes some mindgamez.
Neo: The "duh" attack. One of Roy’s main killers. At low % you can f-air to f-smash and neutral air to f-smash, at higher percents where they fly farther (say 80%) vs. characters of certain weight say Marth, you can f-air and wavedash to f-smash before they have a chance to recover.

Down Smash:
Two sweeping slashes, one in front and one behind.
Damage 13-21% 25% on max charge
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: long
My Thoughts: A good smash in my opinion, although I have heard some say that you should never use it due to it's laggyness. While it's wind down lag is kind of crappy, it is the quickest smash in terms of startup. It has GREAT knockback at the tip, and because it hits low it could go through shields if their feet ar poking out. It's a good move to use out of a wavedash, a run cancel, or if you are hardcore enough a DA Dash (aka Pivot Dash).
Azen: Only use it if opponent is at a high percent in which this move would kill, comes out faster than side smash but has infinite lag so using it to kill is best so there's no consequence.
Neo: Also a conditional move, if you whiff it you will be punished severely. Whenever I used this move it's usually just raw and for a quick kill @ high %. You'll have to mind game this move for the most part if you want to contact with it.

Up Smash:
A flaming upward thrust.
Damage 1-20% Damage depends on when the opponent hits the blade during the attack. An uncharged up smash will do 16% damage if the opponent takes all of the hits.
Start-up lag: moderate
Wind-down lag: moderate
My Thoughts: A situational smash that is decent at racking up damage, but not much else. It does pretty well against fast fallers though. It can spike, but I don't think it's very possible to set it up for spiking consistently.
Azen: It has phire!!!1 I like running under someone and then up smashing, and not many people expect a Roy/Marth up smash.
Neo: Conditional, if they're above you or you cancel an up air, up smash, simple as that.

* There is a common misconception that Roy's attacks are slower than Marth's, but this is simply not true. Most people will argue that Roy's F-smash is slower than Marth's F-smash, but they too are equally fast. The thing is, Roy's attacks seem slower because you focus on hitting with his sweet spot that is in the center of his blade. Since Marth's power is at the tip, the tip travels a larger distance in the same amount of time as Roy's sweet spot. I have made a quick illustration showing what I mean by this. Go here to check it out http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/mookierah/swordillusion.jpg




Aerials:

Neutral Air:
One quick horizontal slash and one strong horizontal slash.
Damage 4-10%
Frames: 11
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderate (minimal if l-canceled)
A solid attack. Great for defense and offense. Good knockback too. You can chain these fairly easy if you hit your opponent with one. It's a good way to push your opponent to the ledge.

Forward Air:
A vertical slash.
Damage 4-8%
Frames: 11
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderate (minimal if l-canceled)
This is my standard air attack. More often than not, this is the move I am attacking with in the air. It's quite nifty.

Back Air:
A vertical slash hitting behind.
Damage 6-9%
Frames: 12
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderate (minimal if l-canceled)
This is pretty much the backwards hitting version of Roy's forward air.

Down Air:
An arching slash below.
Damage 5-9%
Frames: 11
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderately long (moderately short if l-canceled)
This move comes in handy from time to time. It typically knocks the opponent in the air which can set up for nice combos. It can also spike if you hit them with this attack while you are slightly below the opponent or if they are pretty much on your back, but it's considered one of the worst spikes in the game. One last thing, if you hit your opponent from directly left it will launch your opponent up and to the right and vice versa if you hit your opponent on the right. Kinda odd *shrug*.

Up Air:
An arching slash above.
Damage 5-8%
Frames: 12
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderate (minimal if l-canceled)
This is a nifty attack. You can juggle with it on certain characters with shffling, but it's not all that hard to get out of it.




Grabs:

Grab Hit:
A quick knee hit.
Damage 1-3%
A good thing to do once they hit moderate %. From there you can get 1 or 2 hits with this and still throw them, but it's damage is very weak.

Forward Throw:
A quick slam that bounces the enemy forward.
Damage 4-5%
A nifty throw. I hear you can sometimes over B and grab them again as well as all sorts of other stuff. I haven't been able to do it though, but I do use this a lot to hurl my enemies off the ledge for edge guarding.

Back Throw:
A trip that sends the enemy behind you.
Damage 4-5%
I don't really use this throw much. If anything I use it for edge guarding like the forward throw. I am sure there are some crazy techniques that the pros use that make this throw awesome in some aspects though.

Up Throw:
A powerful upward toss.
Damage 3-4%
A pretty nifty throw. It can chain against fast fallers pretty well, and can KO floaty characters at high percent. At low percent it can set up for combos.

Down Throw
A slamming throw to the ground that knocks the enemy behind you.
Damage 5-6%
A great throw. You can sometimes catch an opponent with a down throw followed by a forward smash for edge guarding. If they aren't off the edge when you down throw them they can tech, and either way they can jump out of it, but you could use that to your advantage as a mind game.





Special Moves:

Flare Blade (Neutral B):
A fiery sword slam.
Damage: (Note these are rough estimates/guesstimations. I didn't have a stopwatch or anything, nor do I think it's worth knowing the exact amount)
no charge: 6%
Charged: 8-50% (Damage depends on how long it is charged.)
Start-up lag: moderately short
Wind-down lag: moderate
I love this move. If anything, I use it too much. It is great to catch people's techs or flubbed techs with. It is also the key ingredient to Roy's awesome edge guarding. It is the strongest at the tip, not the center, which makes it Roy's best ranged attack (except for his forward smash). It also hit's below Roy a bit! How can you not like this move!?


Double Edge Dance aka DED (Forward B):
A quick, controllable group of combo able attacks.
Damage:
1st hit: 3-4%
2nd hit: 3-4%
2nd hit(up): 4-5%
3rd hit: 6-7%
3rd hit(up): 6-7%
3rd hit(down): 1-7% (Dependant on how many of the fire attacks hit the opponent)
4th hit: 5-8%
4th hit(up): 5-8%
4th hit(down): 2-6% (Dependant on how many strikes hit the opponent)
Start-up lag: minimal
Wind-down lag: moderately short
Ah, the DED, the move that supposedly *makes* Roy. It is badass, but I think it is overrated. Crouch Canceling flat out kills it, and although the 3rd hit down kills crouch canceling I usually don't make it that far. There are tricks to using it at it's optimum, such as getting at the maximum range, starting it in the air, and what not. There are tons of stuff to say about this move/moves, that's why I will have a section dedicated to it.

Blazer (Up B):
A leaping flame slash.
Damage: 4-7%
Start-up lag: moderately short
Wind-down lag: moderate (based on landing)
I really like this move, but I can't find many practical uses for it. I wouldn't try using this move on fast fallers at all, cause they will land before you even at pretty high percentages. It has good knockback on semi-floaty to floaty chars though. It also has a nifty trick to it known as Reverse Blazer.

Counter (Down B):
A counterattack.
Damage: 1.5 times the power of the countered attack.
Start-up: minimal
Wind-down: moderately long
A useful edge guarding tool. A great way to end a Fox or Falco who plan to shoot back onto the stage with their up Bs. It is also good if you can predict your opponents move. It's power and knockback are determined by the attack it counters. If done at the right time it could turn the tide of a match, but beware, the same is true if you mess it up. The wind-down lag isn't very forgiving.




Double Edge Dance

My Thoughts: The Double Edge Dance is one of Roy's best attacks. It has a lot of variety and covers a lot of situations. It is also his quickest ground attack. It's greatest advantage is that you have control over the speed and the moves in the combo. Be wary though, crouch-canceling can make it completely useless. I recommend to use it fairly often, but don't base your game around it.

Mow: Over B only has 5 practical purposes. 1 recovery, over B stall. 2nd link, use first hit in-between attacks and grabs, and 3 combos, over over down, over over over, or over up over

Here is list of the properties of each hit of the DED

1st hit: This is always the same. It does 3/4% and is quick. Use it to get in a quick hit, piss off your opponent, for recovery, changing directions in the air, stalling in the air, etc.
2nd hit: This attack has greater range than the first hit, which is good, because if you need more range then it would be wise to get in range for this attack as opposed to the first.
2nd hit(up): This has some good upper coverage, and I can sometimes catch people off guard with it, but other than that it's not all too great.
3rd hit: This has some good knockback on it, and can usually set up for some edge guarding, but it's hard to hit with it if the opponents percentage is high or if they are crouch-canceling it. Use this only when you think you are sure it will hit.
3rd hit(up): This is one of my favorite hits of DED, because it spikes. Rarely you will have an opportunity to spike and kill someone with it, but that doesn't happen very often. I use it to catch people and follow their tech.
3rd hit(down): This is Roy's only solution to crouch-canceling outside of smashes and grabs. It also pushes a blocking opponent back, which can prevent this from being shield grabbed if you have the proper spacing.
4th hit: This move has a little bit more knockback than the 3rd forward hit of DED. I VERY RARELY use any 4th hit on DED, cause by the time this comes out they are usually outside of the range to use it. Don't do this unless you KNOW it will hit, and even then it's safer to go with 4th hit up or down.
4th hit(up): This is very similar to the 4th hit forward of DED, but with few differences. First of all, it hits above you more, secondly (the reason why it's better than 4th hit forward) is that it will hit your opponent if any part of their head is poking out of the shield.
4th hit(down): This is my most used 4th hit. It is a series of quick stabs to the opponents legs. For people who aren't accustomed to playing against Roy, it is fairly easy to hit then with this move if they shield your DEDs a lot, because they don't expect the move to last as long.




Useful DED Combos

Forward B > Forward B > Down B
This is one of my most common DED combo. It does decent damage, the 3rd hit kills crouch-canceling, and has a little bit of knockback.

Forward B > Forward B > Up B
This is my overall favorite DED combo. It spikes your opponent into the ground. From their you can chase their tech. If they tech to stand it's a forward smash. If they try to roll through you then you forward smash them. If they roll away you can run and catch them at the end of their roll. Just be sure to watch out for them attacking to get up and you are set. You can also spike people to their death with this, but it's not something a smart enemy will allow to happen very often. If you do spike the opponent this way, it would be a good idea to finish it off with another forward B just in case they meteor cancel it.

Forward B > Forward B > Forward B
Good damage and knockback. Also makes for a pretty good kill move.

Forward B > Forward B/Up B > Forward B
Mow: The best way to kill space animals, cause you only have to hit them with one of the 3 hits. Works around 90% of the time.

Forward B > Forward B > Forward B > Up B
More than likely you won't have a chance to hit with the 4th hit of DED. Especially at high level play, but if the even arises this is the best 4 hit in terms of KO ability. If your opponent's head is poking through the shields this will hit. It will also hit if his feet poke out of shield if you are below him.

Forward B > Forward B > Forward B > Up B
This would probably be the most likely 4th hit DED. Like I said, you still won't use a 4th hit often, but this one comes in handy if they decide they want to shield it. This move lasts a good bit, and if they let their shields off too early then they are gonna get hit.




Blazer

Blazer is one of the most awkward of Roy's attacks. I like it a lot, but I really don't use it that often. It is relatively effective against floaty characters, but it's not all that great against many other characters. There are a few things you need to know.

Arching the Blazer
The blazer has the ability to arch and gain a good bit of horizontal recovery. It comes in handy A LOT. Players who aren't used to it being used this way will have a hard time edge guarding you for a while too. It's relatively easy to do as well. Simply press Up B and then immediately jam it to the right or left. On a max arch you will travel just slightly more than 1/3 of Final Destination.

SWEETSPOT THE LEDGE!!!!!
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS sweet spot the ledge! Practice it! Perfect it.

Reverse Blazer
This is a nifty glitch that can KO Jiggs and Kirby on some stages. Jiggs can be KOed on FD!!! It's very easy to do, but it takes skill to actually land it on a Jiggs player who knows about it. To perform a reverse blazer all you have to do is press Up B, and then tilt the control stick in the opposite direction that you are facing.

It's easier to do this from a short hop, because it will hit a little bit below Roy. Otherwise you have to be close to your opponent on the ground.

The best times to use this against Jiggs when she is sleeping, or out of a shield. It's NOT easy to pull off on a good Jiggs, but if you hit with it, she is outta there. It also has a basic combo.

Forward Air > Reverse Blazer
Floaty chars: Works at low to moderately low %
Normal chars: Works at low to moderate %
Heavy chars: Works at low to moderate %
Fast Falling chars: Works at low to moderate %
This is somewhat hard to do at the moment, because it is very akward. You have to be fast and you have to have mastered L-Canceling in order to pull it off, but if you want to do well against Jiggs or Kirby, this will help out A LOT. This can also KO the semi-floaties on certain levels such as Poke Floats and Rainbow Cruise. There are other stages that you can do this too, and I will have a list of stages and where you can KO specific characters with it.



Combos

Roy is not lacking in the combo department. A lot of his moves string together in odd ways, and can lead to some devastating percentages or early kills. His main combo starters are his aerials, his down tilt, and his grabs. A lot of his combos lead into setups, where you can potentially carry on the devastation for a few more attacks. These are some *set* combos that are good to learn. These don't always work, because of DI and crouch cancels, but they are combos that work well for me most of the time. Don't rely on just these combos, go out and find some of your own. Most of the combos I do aren't preset combos I have learned, because most of them are just instinctual, but if you can perform all of these combos well then learning how to string moves together for maximum damage will come naturally.




Aerial Lead In Combos

Shffl'ed forward airs and in some cases neutral airs are a good way of setting up for a down tilt combo or grab combo. I must point out though, that ALL of Roy's aerials AND his down tilt become practically useless against Crouch Canceling. I can't stress enough that Crouch Canceling is the bane of Roy. This is why grab combos are generally the best way to go, but if you catch your opponent with a forward air, these combos should do a number on them ^_^. Also, any combo that involves the down tilt could be started with just a down tilt. I am not going to put in a down tilt combo section cause it would be relatively repetitive. It should be pretty obvious that the down tilt plays a huge role in Roy's game through these combos though.

Forward Air > Down tilt
Floaty chars: Works at low %
Normal chars: Works at low to moderate %
Heavy chars: Works at low to moderately high %
Fast Falling chars: Works at low to moderately high %
This is one of the 2 most basic combos with forward air as a lead in. After the down tilt hits then you will be able to continue the combo with another forward air or pretty much any other aerial if you so desire.

Forward Air > Grab
Floaty chars: Works at low %
Normal chars: Works at low to mid %
Heavy chars: Works at low to moderately high %
Fast Falling chars: Works at low to moderately high %
The 2nd basic combo with a forward air lead in. From the grab you should be able to start up a grab combo or just toss them off the stage for some early edge guarding.

Forward Air > Running Attack
Floaty chars: Works at moderately low %
Normal chars: Works at mid%
Heavy chars: Works at moderately high to high%
Fast Falling chars: Works at moderately high to high%
This is a nice combo to use on normal and heavy chars when your down tilt combos start turning into crap due to the knockback. It puts the enemy into the air which means they are in for some more hits.

Forward Air > Running Attack > *Setup* Up Air Juggles
Floaty chars: Works at moderately low %
Normal chars: Works at mid%
Heavy chars: Works at moderately high to high%
Fast Falling chars: Works at moderately high to high%
Oh man. This is one of my favorite things to do, but I don't get to do it very often, cause it's relatively easy to get out of. Anyways, if you are crazy about shffl'ing like I am, you will enjoy racking up tons of % with this. There is nothing like a good juggle, and this is quite nifty XD.

Forward Air > Down tilt > Forward Smash
Floaty chars: Doesn't work
Normal chars: Doesn't work
Heavy chars: Doesn't combo, but could possibly be used otherwise at low % on a rare occasion.
Fast Falling chars: Works at low to moderately low %
This is the ultimate fast faller combo. This can knock the crap out of Fox and Falco and lead straight into some edge guarding goodness. It is less effective against Captain Falcon, but it does a number on him as well.

Forward Air > Down tilt > Forward Air/Neutral Air
Floaty chars: Works at low %
Normal chars: Works at low to moderate %
Heavy chars: Works at low to moderately high %
Fast Falling chars: Works at low to moderately high %
A nice way to tack on some damage. It does roughly 25% and is very easy to execute. It also leads into a nice setup if you performed a forward air on the third hit.

Forward Air > Down tilt > Forward Air > *Setup* Neutral A > Down tilt > Forward Air/Neutral Air
Floaty chars: Doesn't work.
Normal chars: Doesn't work.
Heavy chars: Works at low % only.
Fast Falling chars: Works at low % with the exception of Fox.
This is a setup, because it's possible to DI out of the way of the down tilt. I am not sure if the Neutral A is escapable or not, and I don't feel like testing it right now :-P. Anyways this does in the neighborhood of 45-50%, but it doesn't really work on fox. With fox it is better to just continue with down tilts and forward airs.

Forward Air > Down tilt > Forward Air > *Setup* Down tilt > Forward Air > etc...
Floaty chars: Doesn't work.
Normal chars: Doesn't work.
Heavy chars: Works at low %,
Fast Falling chars: Works at low %.
This setup has a decent chance of connecting with the 3rd forward air, but beyond that it's retard Ely easy to get out of. It is a great way to push an enemy around the stage, especially the fast fallers, but it's usually better to do the Forward Air > Down tilt > Forward Smash combo on them.

Down Air > Up Smash
Floaty chars: Works at low %
Normal chars: Works at low to moderate %
Heavy chars: Works at low to moderately high %
Fast Falling chars: Works at low to moderately high %
A nice way to set up for up air juggles, which can set up for a forward smash. Only prob is that it's harder to hit with a down air as opposed to neutral or forward air.

Down Air > Forward Smash
Floaty chars: Works at low %
Normal chars: Works at low to moderate %
Heavy chars: Works at low to moderately high %
Fast Falling chars: Works at low to moderately high %
This is pretty hard to do and is situational. Most of the time I hit with this it isn't a true combo, but I do believe it is a true combo if you do it perfectly. It seems to work if you down air almost while being directly above them.

Up Air > Forward Smash
Floaty chars: Works at low and at moderately high to high%
Normal chars: Works at low to moderate and high %
Heavy chars: Works at low to moderately high %
Fast Falling chars: Works at low to moderately high %
This is a nice way to land a forward smash. If they are above you, but not too far away and you hit them with an up air, you can l-cancel and perform a smash before they can regain control. It's really nice if you don't shorthop the up air when you attack from the ground and land behind them to prevent from being shield grabbed.


Neutral Air > Forward Smash
Floaty chars: Works at low %. Possible at moderately low due to DI.
Normal chars: Works at low %. Possible at moderately low due to DI.
Heavy chars: Works at low to moderately low %
Fast Falling chars: Doesn't work on Fox, but it works on Falco if he doesn't tech the landing. It also *looks* like it works on CF.
Another way to fit in a forward smash. This only works at low percents though. Still, it can come in handy.




Grab Combos

All the combos up till this point can be destroyed by crouch canceling. Grab combos are the safest combos you can perform in a match with Roy, but sadly there aren't many decent grab combos out there. The ones that are good though, can come in handy because they lend themselves into a forward smash!

Up Throw > Forward Smash
Floaty chars: N/A
Normal chars: N/A
Heavy char: N/A
Fast Falling chars: low to moderately low %.
A great way to knock the space animals off the ledge and into edge guarding zone for potential early kills. Watch for DI though. It's also possible that the fox can shine you before you can smash, but this is unlikely. In order to do that he would have to not DI and shine as quick as possible.

Up Throw > Up Air > Forward Smash
Floaty chars: Works at low %
Normal chars: Works at low to moderate %
Heavy chars: Works at low to moderately high %
Fast Falling chars: Works at low to moderately high %
Another great way to work in that Forward smash! The stun on the up air allows you to throw out Roy's ultimate smash.

Down Throw > Forward Smash
Floaty chars: Works at low %
Normal chars: Works at low to moderate %
Heavy chars: Works at low to moderate %
Fast Falling chars: N/A, except for edge guarding
This is a rather iffy combo. There are lots of ways out of it, but it's worth doing if you can pull it off. You have to definitely watch their DI, and most of the time they can tech it before you can hit them. For me it works best when used to edge guard. Just toss them with the back throw and throw out that forward smash.




Edge guarding

Roy has a pretty awesome edge guarding game. Quick kills are one of his specialties. Thanks to the power of his forward smash, you will often have a chance to prevent your foe from making it back into the fray. It's not easy, but Roy has many tricks up his sleeve to handle just about every character (except for super floaters >_<). Just be sure to always switch it up and use mind games.

Forward Smash
The forward smash dominates for edge guarding. It's power even at low percents can knock many opponents outside of their recovery range. Don't rely on this too much, cause it's the most obvious tactic. One of the best ways to pull this off is by edge hogging and forcing your opponent to land on the stage. Once they pull off their recovery press L or R to roll back on the stage and SMASH the heck out of them. Rinse and repeat until finished, or throw out one of the many other edge guarding attacks.

Forward Tilt
As Neo said earlier in the moves description this attack is not anticipated. Also, like I said in the moves description, it is a mini forward smash. Put them together and what do you have? A quicker alternative to the forward smash that your opponent is less likely to expect!

Down Tilt
Many people will probably ask why I would tell someone to use the down tilt as an edge guard because it knocks your enemy into the sky. I will answer it like this, "Down tilt > Forward smash at low %." Nuff said.

Flare Blade
Muahahah! This is my FAVORITE edge guarding move, and one of my favorite moves in Roy's arsenal. This move lends itself to being used as an edge guarding tool more often than the others. It's range is great and extends below Roy. You can use it in many ways. One is to stand on the ledge and charge (not the smartest alternative due to it's obviousness), another is to jump out and smack them with it! I will sometimes even jump out and then jump back to the stage to fake my opponent into thinking I was going to flare him and then knock him back out again from the ledge.

Counter
This is perhaps the most *******ly of all of Roy's edge guarding moves. It works VERY well against the space animals' Up Bs. It's VERY easy to do too. Simply wait for your opponent's recovery to hit you and counter it. Most recovery moves are quite strong, so the counter will more than likely annihilate them.




Mind games

Mind games are VERY important to Roy's game. He is far from a tech heavy character, and thusly relies on playing smart. This is one reason why many people don't use Roy much, because mind games aren't something that are easily learned, and you can't really teach them. They come from experience. I will discuss a few of the basic mind games Roy can use, but I won't go beyond that. You are on your own for this part of mastering Roy, but hopefully these simple mind games will give you an idea of how to formulate your own.

Wave dashing
Wave dashing, while not the uber l33t end all technique that a lot of people seem to make it out to be, allows itself for some decent mind games. The most basic wavedash trick is to run towards an opponent and wavedash back. Another is to wavedash forward and then wavedash back.

Dash dancing
I must admit that I very rarely do this, but I have seen A LOT of people do it so it's worth mentioning. Dash dancing is when you run back and forth really quickly so that you never leave your initial dash animation. A bunch of dust flies at your feet and it can be somewhat hard for your opponent to discern your next attack.

Feinting
Ever run into some guy that c-sticked like crazy? Try feinting some aerial attacks. It's simple, just jump towards your enemy and when you would normally attack jump again and jump over your enemies smash and land an aerial of your choice in their face.

Triangle Jumping
A form of feinting that I hear is effective, but I don't really use. You short hop towards your opponent and then air dodge towards the ground. The idea is they will flub a smash while you are still dodging and then smash them back.

Anti Shield Grab
If crouch canceling wasn't bad enough for Roy as it is, sheild grabbing is another pain in his side (as with every other character), but fear not, there are ways to capitalize on shield grabbers! If you short hop a nair (no fast fall) you can land behind your opponent. Another way is great too, but it's more situational. If you have an opponent in close range behind you, try short hopping an up air (again, no fast fall). You will land behind them and it's quite possible that it would lead into a forward smash. If they are hit by the up air then you have a free forward smash.

Roy Tippers
Although they are weaker, it's a good idea to learn the maximum range of Roy's attacks. Even when weakened a lot of his moves are still able to have a lot of knockback and power. Down tilt, down smash, flare blade (actually better at the tip), neutral A, forward tilt, DED, neutral air, back air, up air, and ****, sometimes even forward air still work very well at the tip under the right circumstances. The last thing an advanced player would expect from Roy is the range of Marth (although I think Marth has better range, but the whole debate over Roy's sword versus Marth's huge hands is something I am not sure about at the moment).




Closing Thoughts

I have covered everything I can think of at the moment to the best of my abilities, and thusly I am proud of this guide. There are a few things I wish I could add too, such as the Mind games section and what not. My original concept was to get a few of the pros' basic mind games and post them up so people can take those ideas and run with them. This didn't work out due to the fact that they don't want to give their game away, and that is definitely understandable. Anyways, in a way it balances out because it will force a Roy player to learn on his own and not rely completely on this guide. My goal with this guide was to perhaps convince more players to take Roy seriously. It definitely wasn't meant to make a ton of people who all played Roy the exact same way. Once again I definitely encourage experimenting and practice! It's the surefire way to get better. Also, learn how to do all of the advanced techniques! L-canceling and short hopping are a MUST. They aren't all that hard to learn either. I also advise people to learn how to wavedash. A lot of good players don't wavedash and still do well, but to simply not learn it and dismiss it is just a copout. Try everything. Try things that don't work. Keep the things that you like and work, and drop the parts that don't.

One last thing. It's going to sound really obvious, but I am continually amazed out how many people don't do this. ALWAYS KEEP YOUR EYE ON YOUR OPPONENT! There is no need to focus on your character. You should know what you are doing without having your eyes directly on your character. Keeping your eyes on your opponent will allow you to understand how your opponent plays and from there you can counter their play style.




Credits and Special Thanks

I very much appreciate the 3 Roy experts that helped me construct their guide. Without their guidance you would only have been stuck with my input, which is a far cry from the knowledge these great players have provided. Thanks Azen, Mow, and Neo!!

I also appreciate others whom have pointed out things I have missed or new strats and techniques after the guides initial release. Thanks Sengin and Arc_man.

I would also like to thank whom supported my efforts in making this guide. They kept asking about or telling me to keep up my efforts on the throughout the duration of the project. Thanks Fluffy, Punkmonkey, Mow, Twig, and Sober.

I thank all of you who have read my guide and have learned from it, because my hopes with this is that there will be more and better Roy players out there!

And lastly, one special thanks goes out to Kenshin, for his initial hazing on AIM back in the day got me riled up enough to practice my *** off and become a decent smasher. Thanks Kenshin.

[phaze]

very nice guide, I may try playing roy soon.

[VilNess]

Thanks a bunch for the guide, im gonna start reading it more carefully, cuz I might pick this swordman up!

[soberfox]

Great guide. Really liked the comments on every one of his moves, and the combo section. I don't know alot about Roy, but this makes me want to learn.

[Neophos]

Im the only one who uses u throw to d samsh on fast fallers??


guess so...

nice guide. good things like Azen and NEO comments ^_^

yeah.

whatever...

[MookieRah]

Im the only one who uses u throw to d samsh on fast fallers??

Ya know, I never really thought of trying that, cause I was trying to find ways to sneak in that F Smash. The D Smash does seem to work, but doesn't do as much knockback. I am not sure, but a Fox might be able to tech and hit you with while you are still lagging from the smash. I will look into it though, but I believe that F Smash is the wiser choice, because you may be able to knock them out for early edgeguarding with it.

[NJE789]

When up-throw can combo into anything, ie, low %, Fox can shine you in the head from Roy's up-throw, and when he's takin too much damage, he gets thrown too high for a follow-up. But, why try soemthing like a d-smash when it's quicker(as in, less time for Fox to face-shine you), and you can do it a couple of times building damage, then nail him with a stronger attack.

[MookieRah]

Thanks for the insight, I will check into that. I don't have much fox competition so I can't really test that well, but I am pretty sure that Neo was the one who told me that up throw does indeed combo with fastfallers (he was talking about falco at the time, so it might just be falco that it works on). He didn't mention about getting face-shined, but I will ask him about it and adjust the guide accordingly.

Thanks for your input though, the more the better. I want this guide to be the best one out there, and any and every bit of information is welcome.

[Sengin]

Nicely written guide Mookie, I've been waiting for a good guide (even though I've been playing Roy since I first unlocked him). Can't wait for the pics/charts/movies. That would be sweet, and you'd be the first one to put that kind of stuff in a guide.

Got some suggestions for adding in the guide:

1. Roy's dair not only spikes when the opponent is above you, but when they are at your back also. This is what makes his HRC record possible, plus I've tested it in training.

2. The dair has 3 (I believe) different ways of hitting opponents, straight up, straight down (the spike mentioned earlier), and, the only way I can describe it, in a reflected parabola (the upside-down U-thing learned in math :D) from Roy in either direction from him (left or right). To make the opponent go straight up, you have to space it right so it hits your opponent not at the sweet spot. This leads to a perfect oppurtunity for an f-smash or grab, and if it bounces them too high, for a full jumped arial, preferably an fair or nair. To make your opponent do the parabola direction, you need to hit with the sweet spot, with the opponent either in front of or behind Roy for whichever direction you want your opponent to go.

3. You can usually chain at least 2 nairs on most characters, and I've done 4 in a row against Samus. This is good for pushing your opponent to the edge.

4. Kinda off-topic, but I like how you finally put an end to the whole "Marth swings faster than Roy" thing. I know that happened in another thread, and I'm glad you put it in here. I just think it should be just below the f-smash paragraph, and not at the bottom.

5. This is kind of a technical detail that isn't really of much use, but Roy's counter will do 1.5 times the damage of the attack that was going to hit. It will only do 1.5 times the damage at the center of the blade though, but the damage and knockback only dissapates slowly as you travel away from the center.

6. This only works with items on, but if you are holding a bomb, and you jump, you can drop the bomb with z, then counter at the right time, and you will counter the explosion of the bomb. So if your opponent shields the bomb, he still has to worry about the fierce counter that will come out of it, possibly breaking his shield and a set up for a fully-charged flare blade. Very unlikely though.

7. Another note on the counter, I believe it's best to use it in the air, save when edge-guarding. The reason being is because it hits below Roy, giving him more range. I could be wrong though, it could be the same whether on the ground or air.

8. More pointless detail: if you do the blazer for the most horizontal possible ( ^B then < or > right after pressing B), you'll go just over 1/3 of Final Destination. This is just to give people an idea of if they're going as far as possible with it so they can properly space it when trying for a sweet-spotted edge grab.

9. When you are going to spike someone with his DED, it's best to attempt for a fourth hit (usually neutral B or ^B based on what percent your opponent is). The reason being is because if they meteor cancel it, they'll cancel it with a jump (because they most likely wouldn't have used their mid-air jump yet), and you might be able to connect with the last hit, sending them flying. If they use their ^B as a meteor cancel, then you have a chance to trade hits, and while you'll go flying, they will too.

10. If your opponent is above you, say on a platform on kirby 64, you can use the 4th hit of DED (up) to hit them (provided you started the DED a while ago and then jumped out of the way). If any of their feet are sticking out through their shield, it'll send them flying. The fourth hit upwards is also pretty powerful at the tip, so it will still have good knockback. I believe it hits higher than Marth's f-smash.

11. Pretty much pointless, but you can spike with Roy's up-smash. I believe you need to hit with only the fourth hit of it to spike them, but you can't really plan it out and it's pretty weak.

I'm pretty sure you know most of what I mentioned, but I thought "maybe he forgot or something" and I decided to mention it. Just suggestions, that's all.

BTW, how's the d-tilt to dair spike training coming along? Have you quit doing trying it because it failed miserably (like all my ideas usually do)?

[ArC_man]

Im the only one who uses u throw to d samsh on fast fallers??

why would you use d-smash on fastfallers? it's so... slow.. and it doesn't kill them or knock them out, f-smash is way better imho. One time to use D-smash is at really high percents, when 1st hit of DED combos into it.. ya thats about all i use it for

Most people DI when you throw them, so they're probably not gonna be in range to shine you.

Guide's good so far Mookie and it can only get better :). I'd suggest add a character matchup section and focus more on that (I think it should be a good portion of the guide)


Mow: Over B only has 5 practical purposes. 1 recovery, over B stall. 2nd link, use first hit in-between attacks and grabs, and 3 combos, over over down, over over over, or over up over

lol, cracked me up

adding on to some DED stuff

forward, forward, forward, forward/up will work on big/fastfalling chars (ganon, bowser, fox, falcon, etc) at low percents if they dont DI it well enough. Usually on a smaller stage (yoshi story or something) it's pretty much a guaranteed kill (since roy rapes their recoveries).

Neutral A can lead into a buncha stuff (i used to think 1st hit of DED is better in pretty much every single situation but the nuetral has less lag and can lead into more things) like d-tilt, f-tilt, stuff like that.

I think you should stress dashdance more. It's considerably faster than wavedancing and you have LOADS of options.

[MookieRah]

Thanks Sengin and Arc_Man! I knew I had to have forgotten a good bit of stuff, and it shall be added into the guide after I finish my classes tonight.

Oh yeah, I am planning a character matchup thread, but that will be a ways off. The problem with that is that I don't have much of a variety in who I play, and most of them aren't at a tourny level. Hopefully I can have some dudes to help me out on that, and I will also bring my laptop to all the tournies I will be attending to type down everything for the guide.

So far so good though, I am glad people appreciate my guide.

[Dr.Capsule]

Great guide, I picked up Roy recently and this guide gave me some tips. :)

I really liked that other players gave their opinions on some moves, so you had several thoughts on each move. *thumbs up*

[Neophos]

Fox can faceshine Roy from a u throw??

is his throw really that much stronger/less stun then Marths??

and i use the d smash because its pretty powerful..

i know its usually only 1% more then f smash, but f smash is used pretty much, so, yeah...

not that i play Roy much, or use anythnig else then suffled nairs and f smashes....

[MookieRah]

Fox can faceshine Roy from a u throw??

I haven't tested this yet, but I will if I think about it later tonight. I will see how long it takes for fox to get out of the stun and see if it's possible for Roy to get shined, as well as see how his DI would affect anything. At the moment I believe that at low percent DIing wouldn't allow Fox to escape the F Smash.

and i use the d smash because its pretty powerful..

The down smash is awesome. Especially at the tip! I forgot to mention that in the guide, which is another thing I will fix later tonight. If you hit with the very tip it sends them back almost as far as an f smash and it comes out as fast as neutral a or forward b. Like always, lag is it's biggest problem. I often hit this from a run cancel and tip my opponent in the toe. If anything they were expecting a f smash for the most part, and it just *might* go through their shields if they are low.

[Edit]
I have updated the guide based on the info presented on this thread so far, but there are a few things I haven't tested (and won't be able to test tonight) and I will test those before I post them in the guide as version 1.2.

[Blazin Elf]

Very nice guide! This is going to help me shut my friend up about how "good" he is with marth. I know Marth > Roy but I have much better technical skill than my friend does I just didn't know how to use roy. He tier whores too so victory will be so sweet.

NOTE: I can beat his marth with any of my other characters but I think roy will be the only one who will get him to shut his stupid "Marth is top tier therefore I will always win" mouth.

[MookieRah]

Hey guys, I just wanted to say that version 1.2 will be around shortly. I haven't been able to post in a few days because the network has been down.

I have added a few awesome things in 1.2, one of which is REVERSE BLAZER COMBOS. That's right, you can trap Jiggs in a combo that can end with her death! Muahahahahaha!!!!

[Umbreon]

you don't need Roy's DED 4th hit. Only the first 3 are any good.

[MookieRah]

It's out!

Here are the changes:

MookieRah's Roy Guide version 1.2------

Added more information on Neutral Air and Down Air in the Moveset (Aerials) section.
Added Neutral Air > Forward Smash combo in the combo section.
Added more information on Reverse Blazer.
Added more information on the Up Throw > Forward Smash combo in the combo section.
Added Roy Tippers and Anti Shield Grab in the mindgames section.

[Sengin]

Nice changes Mookie. I've said it once and I'll say it again, you have a nice guide here. Bring on 1.3! :D

[Umbreon]

Jason I'll IM you later I just thought of some stuff to add. You can clear it with NEO I'm sure, just for checks.

I'll try to get that Roy vs Samus vid on the hub soon. But I'm warning you my Roy isn't all that good compared to the others on vids >_>

[MookieRah]

Awesome yo. Can't wait to hear it.

So far my plans for version 1.3 are as follows:

Tweak existing stuff
Add a few new techniques, mindgames, etc
Add in pictures/diagrams (and maybe a few tutorial movie clips)
Coax NEO and Azen to tell me more stuff :-P (I mainly want to finish up their comments on Roy's moveset)
Add in suggested viewing (vids of Neo and such)
Throw in some artwork and perhaps a wallpaper just for kicks.

[TWP]

Very VERY nice guide Mookie

Can't tell you much to change/add (I'm not very wise in the ways of Roy) but this is a MUST read for anyone remotely considering playing Roy.

Keep up the good work and give us 1.3 !!

EDIT : One of these days I'll make a post and spell everything right

[Solo_Swordsman15]

wow, that a really good guide. I'm new to the site and dont know the lingo really well but I understood most of that. Now if only there was a guide as good as that for Marth.

[PXTalon2000]

I'm quite impressed by this guide. I'm going to have to check back here to see the updated versions 'cuz I hate playing Roy inconsistently.

Anyways I was wondering if you could add some combos into DED, either from aerials or from grabs.

Thoughts for future updates: I guess there are some details about DED like... hitting your opponent when he's in air or using horizontal aerial momentum, if those help any combos.

I'm also curious about nair, and what uses there are for the first hit only.

[Sengin]

If you time it right and fast fall so only the first hit hits before you touch the ground, and then l-cancel it, you might be able to get in a grab from the stun, or even start a d-tilt combo from it.

[En.Ee.Oh]

sengin what the **** are you doing with a red roy in your sig?! WTF?!

<-- the original red roy

[Sengin]

Uh, sorry? :D. I just happened to be playing as the Red Roy when I took that screen shot, to mix it up a bit. The middle shot is his default color, the left is his blue (which I usually use, and which doesn't look blue in the sig), and the right is the red. I neither like the green nor yellow Roy's, so I didn't use them. What's so wrong with a little variety :D.

[MookieRah]

Lol, actually, judging from the awesome Roy screen caps Sengin has sent me, he plays with the Blue/Yellow variation 90% of the time.
I like the standard Roy myself.

There are a few things in my guide that don't seem to work all that well at high level of play, or at least Anden never let me do em much (if at all).

The main thing that didn't work was this:

If they are above you, but not too far away and you hit them with an up air, you can l-cancel and perform a smash before they can regain control.

Anden would jump away by the time I landed and l-canceled. It will still work as a setup, and it prolly works better on other characters, but it's not as good as I made it out to be in the guide.

[Inkslinger]

It's the Golden Roy not Yellow, nice guide btw. Very informative and very straightfoward.

[MookieRah]

Nah, i was talking about his Blue/Yellow variation. The one where the inside of the cape is yellow instead of red :-P.

I know about Golden Boy Roy :-P.

[ArC_man]

i get green >_>

[Roy Ranevski]

Gold Roy is teh 1337 one fools ;)! That costume is the second coolest in the game, only to the White 'Angelic' Marth, but Roy's a cooler character so bleh, he wins.

Great guide, I agree with everything EXCEPT the universal under-ratedness of U-Smash. All you have to do is hit with like, 1mm below the tip and it spikes. I can get that spike to come out 95+% of the time. The best part is because it sends them flying so fast at such an awkward trajectory it's really hard for people (even my friends who are trained to look out for it,) to react to. This is not to mention that when done near the ledge it can be followed by a nice F-Smash =D if they somehow get back.

Again great work, I look forward to seeing something like tutorial vidoes in a guide.

[Garde]

I'm impressed. This guide is very informative and very concise. There's not much fluff filling pages, like in my guide (something I need to work on). You get right to the facts and tell everything the way it is, and I even learned a few things from this guide. I'm not switching Roy to my main though, I have a Link guide to update after all, and how would it look if I were promoting playing Link when I was actually using Roy? Haha... Anyways, good job on this guide, it puts mine to shame. I could learn a thing or two from just the layout of this guide...

I will direct my brother to this guide, or just teach him everything myself... I haven't had a good Roy vs. Link battle in a long time... :)

Thanks for spending your time on writing this guide, it's always great to read a **** good guide. I'll probably copy and paste this into the public version, if there is one (which I will check right after posting this).

[MookieRah]

Wow. Thanks a lot Garde.

It is an honor to me, because I remember back when I first joined the forums, and when I was picking up Link I thought your guide was badass, straight up.

I leave for Team Ben's: Getting Schooled tommorow. I will bring my laptop and gather as much info for the guide as I can while I am there. Even though the SmashFest/Training event that was planned for Sunday isn't going on, the Tupeloopa Koopa Troopa's (the crew I am in) will be smashing with them anyways. Hopefully I can get some good counter strategies and stuff to post ^_^.

[En.Ee.Oh]

Hey mooks, i want you to hit me up on AIM befor eyou add anything new to the roy guide.. we might wanna just keep some roy stuff just between us ;)

[MookieRah]

Lol, man there are so many nearby now. 1.3 will be delayed for a while, cause I will be attending another tourny this weekend and next weekend. It's good though, cause I am learning a lot of stuff.

I will prolly start working on an anti character section for the guide, starting with fox.

[aho43]

Where do you live Mook? I'd like to get some Roy on Roy action.

[MookieRah]

lol @ your choice of words.

I live in Tupelo, MS, which is far removed from most of the big tournies and such, but we make up for it by being hardcore and driving long distances.

[aho43]

Oh wow, you were at GS so I figured you were from the MD/VA area. You are hardcore.