Fox's weekness....who is it?

[Fei-Sheik]

I can't find ne weekness for fox...i realy wanna know so i can master that weekness, thanks for the help. o and..i dunt know aout you...but i have trouble vs. ganon...hehe


Thanks.

[stilettotrap]

Good Fox players > good Ganon players, for the most part.

Fox's best competitor is Marth. I'll leave it to everyone else...

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Well played Falco isn't a Foxs best friend. Played in NTSC it's a little easier than it is in PAL due to Foxs weight, though the down throw glitch is supposed to be a bother anyway (just jab Falco as soon as you can if you're Fox). I agree with stiletto though, Gdorf gets wrecked heavy by good Fox.
As for Marth, the real throw off is probably the floatiness and the fact he can counter close strung attacks, which is an area Fox really counts on. Just remember to throw from time to time so the Marth counters less, and keep out of tip range because that's the last thing you need...next thing you know you're trying to sweet-spot the edge as Marth is edge tipping, dtilting and countering your every attempt to get back like you're some kind of border hopping illegal immigrant. Use his floatiness against him and send him skyward, he's a sucker for Uair at low percents.

[fox user]

use lasers against marth and then run in for the kill hes very easy unless u close range him

i say falco took me a long time to get past that one event with falco pichu y.link and dr. mario

[FoxMcMarth]

Jiggly Puff gives fox a hard time

[FoxMcMarth]

she is tough for both fox and falco she beats them in priority and if she grabs and up throws its really easy for her to hit them with rest if your at a tournie or some thing thing and some one is using jiggly puff i wouldnt recomend fox or falco

[Rayzorium]

Falco, Jigglypuff, Peach, Luigi, Doc, and especially Marth can be problematic for Fox users. Now I'm not going to be very detailed; I'll just give you a few ideas.

With Falco, it's going to be a very offensive game. Falco and Fox can both combo each other to oblivion. The upside for Falco is that his come out much easier, mainly because of the opportunities SHB sets up.

Jigglypuff's WoP is pretty effective against Fox, and can get in an easy upthrow-to-Rest at low percentages. Even if Fox DIs the upthrow, Jiggs can sometimes actually follow and Rest. Just don't be reckless, and watch your distance. Fox is the deadliest vertical killer and Jiggs is easiest to kill off the top.

Peach is also killed easily off the top, but her dsmash will DESTROY Fox, and get 2-3 hits in even if he doesn't CC. Her dash attack sends them straight up, where she can hit them with one of her very painful aerials. She also has a rather nasty upthrow chain, and her edgeguarding abilities are superb.

Luigi performs well against Fox because a great deal of his attacks send the opponent upward, leaving many opportunities to combo. Fox's shine sends Luigi too far to be combo'ed (but makes Luigi easier to shine spike, especially so, due to the vertical nature of his recovery). Some Foxes are also nervous about following Luigi with an uair, due to the strength of Luigi's dair.

Doc, I can't really tell ya. I've beaten very good players with Fox, but I got completely owned by Robfalco's Doc. He killed himself twice at low percentages, and I a lucky shine spike and upsmash, and I still lost. Doc's fair and dsmash are the most frustrating things, ever. You'd think you'd be fast enough or obvservant enough to block them, but dsmash eats right through your shield, and fair just hits you in the face and kills you. Worse yet, it can be spaced so that it can't be shield grabbed.

Marth has two things: range, and the upthrow. The upthrow easily chains to 30, upon which Marth can uptilt juggle and finish with a fsmash. Rarely works all the way, but the very fact that it CAN work is deadly. Also, Marth outranges Fox on just about everything. Unfortunately for Marth, the swordsman isn't hard to kill off the top, and is just the perfect weight for Fox's uair juggles. Also, shine spikes are very effective, because his up b is very vertical.

[soberfox]

Docs I have sometimes I have trouble with. Somewhere between the cape countering the shine, pill spamming, and his downsmash I lose. Oh, and cape can completely botch your recovery as well.

Sometimes Sheiks can give me headaches, but rarely. Needles and her chain for edgeguarding works great, and she can basically chainthrow you since she can chase your tech so easily.

Other than those 2 "odd" ones I guess, the usual Marth and Jigglypuff are always tough. I never had THAT big of a problem with Falcos, but they are by no means a "good" matchup. Falco can be extremely easy to shine spike, but beware of the phantasm.

[fluffy-sama]

As a fox player, I feel like I should add something here... so i will.

The first thing will be that Rayzorium never ceases to amaze me with how much cr4p he knows about this game. Even though that's completely off-topic and has nothing to do with anything, i have to say it cuz... i just do.


I have a question to make as to why fox/falco players would give advice to a sheik player on how to beat fox, as well. Maybe i misunderstood something...

Rayz is right about fox/ falco comboing each other to oblivion. I knwo because he and I play all the time and i'm fox, he's falco. Usually it goes something like he does a bunch of double-shine-kick-my-@$$ crap and then i run in and do a dash attack followed by fsckloads of uptilts and an upsmash or two. Chaingrabbing falco is fun because he falls like a boulder.

Also, the danger Peach poses to Fox with her down-smash was made very obvious to me at TGA when wave-e owned my fox with peach... partially due to the fact that i haven't quite mastered the art of playing against other people besides rayz. hahaha... the fact that fox's infinite drillshine wavedash combo works on peach would be a definite advantage if you could master it, but I wouldn't rely on it. Actually, you don't even really need the drills. just waveshine chain her all the way off the edge and then shinespike her pink peachy @$$. of course... easier said than done. :)

To offer anything more useful I'd have to play with more people, and care a lot more about this game....

EDIT: on another completely unrelated note... is anyone ELSE only seeing the top half of my lousy sig???

[That Diablos Guy]

Originally posted by fluffy-sama
on another completely unrelated note... is anyone ELSE only seeing the top half of my lousy sig???

Yep. I can see the whole siggy if I open it up in another window though.

[cHaNg-sTa]

Docs main edge on Fox are his throw combos on him. They may not be devastating as Jigg's up throw rest, but every chance Doc has to grab Fox, expect Fox to go flying.

0-20% (give or take) - Up throw to upsmash or downsmash. If Fox doesn't DI upsmash, you are likely to follow up with another strong move.

20-80% (give or take) - Up throw -> Fsmash. Most devastating throw combo from Doc on Fox. This sends Fox off the stage most of the time as well. If the person doesn't react as soon as he can, up throw Fsmash can work up to 100%.

80-150% - Above combo may still work, but not always guarantee. Down throw-> Fsmash works juss as well here. Up throw to Fair works too.

150%+ - Down throw to fair... iono.. im giving sum brieft estimate

Those aren't exactly accurate percents since I do my throws off instinct and they usually work.. those are ball park numbers, not so sure about the 150+ throw combo, but the rest are pretty close

[Umbreon]

Doc can also shffl uairs to fastfalles, but I forget the %.

Fox's only weaknesses are samus, falco, and marth. Fox can destroy peach luigi doc ect right back.

[ShineOfScott-SOS]

i am currently best fox in UK and just went to a tourny, came 3rd, i played a very good samus player but i woudnt say samus is a wekness, the only weakness fox has is marth and falco kinda.

[VilNess]

I play luigi and I can say that only way to win a fox with Luigi is to be a better player.
I think fox>luigi but a good luigi is annoying as always.
They pretty much kill each other recovery, though a well-placed illusion is hard to block.

[AWrulez]

Fox > Samus, especially if he can drillshine well. If he manages to get an up air in, or an up smash, it could take Samus at relatively low percentages (for her). Blaster spam > missile spam at longer ranges. Drillshine to wavedash to whatever. Edgeguarding Samus is tricky though.
but im just rambling.

[the_suicide_fox]

Peach, Doc, Luigi, Samus, Marth, and Jigz all give Fox a tough time. If you know how to play against them and you play smart you should win tho. Samus, Doc, and Peach all require lots of drillshine or drillgrabs. Don't bother edgeguarding Samus, Jigz or Peach most of the time, because they will almost always come back. It's best to keep the game in the center of the stage where you have an advantage, since they rape your recovery. Luigi you should try to shine him off the stage, but don't always go after him to shinespike. Most good Luigi's will counter with a chop or uair. But once he is off the stage edgehog/guard him and he should be done. Marth and Jigz you want to avoid the grab at all costs. Cancel aerials into shine and unless you are positive the shine will hit don't bother following it up with any combos, it's better to just jump away and play safe. Hit and run tactics work great against them both. Doc is tough, but again keep the fight near the center and you will have a big advantage. Use downtilt or uptilt more to pop him up. Against all of them do you best to land ANY upsmashes you can. Downtilts, uptilts, shine combos, shuffle'd aerials, neutral a's, and throws can all combo pretty well into upsmash or upair depending on % and how your opponent DI's.

Falco IMO is the only character that is really the closest to a Fox counter as you can get. His moves are all as fast as Fox's, he can combo Fox 10 times easier than Fox can do to him, and his spike rapes your recovery. And his SHB rapes you SH game. It's best to not SH as much against Falco. ANd use more downsmashes and forward smashes since it's easier to KO him horizontally. Tilt combo's and grabs work really well too. Be careful with the shinespike, since if you miss it means spiked by a forward b.

[Umbreon]

a smart sheik can....wait we don't have any of those. oops. ha ha stupid sheik players

[Tiller420]

I find luigi or link good vs him and with link his up throw up-b is very effecitve cause of his fast falling makes it hard to l cancle or ise directional influence

[Aarosmashguy]

well if its a really good fox you are in trouble but I would say that
Falco gives him a little trouble with the shine spike srot hop blaster can own him just try to avoid his grab up smash.
Sheik just because she can chain grab fox.

[Zanguzen]

Marth- uthrow to utilt + his fsmashes and good edgeguarding can really cause problems for fox since he is heavy. and yes- marth's floatiness causes further problems for fox's much needed combos.

[Lxl]

Just a correction - Fox isn't heavy. He's just a fastfaller.

[Zanguzen]

Just a correction - Fox isn't heavy. He's just a fastfaller.

Thx :) - that is true.

[ShineOfScott-SOS]

marth is foxes weakness and a extremly good mario

[Robin]

I think its a weakness in the person using fox more than fox himself because jigglypuff marth and some of the play that was name does not give me a hard time.

[UndrDog]

I still say a good Yoshi can take out a Fox easier then most. second jump can cancel out Fox's up-air and alows for one of his own. can juggle him and easy to edge gaurd Fox too. but this is just my opinion, and ready for the insuing flamage...

[D'oH]

Though in no means a counter, Zelda can go toe to toe with Fox. Alot of time you'll win due to the fact that no one plays Zelda and knows how to deal with her.

[FlowinWater]

Wow Sheik can't CG Fox, he is a fastfaller, the only way to CG him is to follow the tech. I think she can at high %s though.

He has no relative weakness but people that give him a hardtime are:
Falco, Marth, and Luigi.

Falco can keep him at bay with his SHLs, falco can outprioritize Fox in every way, fox only hope is to grab him. Up throw to Usmash to Uair shuffles. And Grabbing Falco is not easy, even with fox. Falco owns his edgegaurd, if Falco's sees an UpB above the stage or so, falco can laser to get under him. He can then either spike or Dsmash. Witchever works better.

Marth can be a bit to marths favor. However I have been discovering that Fox can indeed penetrate Marth's Longranged offense. Fox can grab to Uair, even if the marth's DIs, you can still hit him with it.

Luigi, arg he is just to hard to combo, fox has to play a relatively hit and run game. Luigi can be just as fast thanks to his Wavedash to, that sucks for Fox. Luigi combos him alot to, with aerials, even smashes0_0.


thats my 2cents.

HOLLA

[Nappydude]

HEy! what about Cpt. Falcon?

Originally posted by FlowinWater
Wow Sheik can't CG Fox, he is a fastfaller, the only way to CG him is to follow the tech. I think she can at high %s though.

He has no relative weakness but people that give him a hardtime are:
Falco, Marth, and Luigi.

Falco can keep him at bay with his SHLs, falco can outprioritize Fox in every way, fox only hope is to grab him. Up throw to Usmash to Uair shuffles. And Grabbing Falco is not easy, even with fox. Falco owns his edgegaurd, if Falco's sees an UpB above the stage or so, falco can laser to get under him. He can then either spike or Dsmash. Witchever works better.

Marth can be a bit to marths favor. However I have been discovering that Fox can indeed penetrate Marth's Longranged offense. Fox can grab to Uair, even if the marth's DIs, you can still hit him with it.

Luigi, arg he is just to hard to combo, fox has to play a relatively hit and run game. Luigi can be just as fast thanks to his Wavedash to, that sucks for Fox. Luigi combos him alot to, with aerials, even smashes0_0.


thats my 2cents.

HOLLA

[FlowinWater]

Falcon? Counter fox? **** NO.

Falcon gets out prioritized by Fox, who also has better overall speed then Falcon.

Fox has combos, grab, Up throw, upsmash, Uair. Shine omg SHINEs OWN Falcon. Drill shine, wavedash, upsmash, Uair. JUST OWNS and looks so sexy. Falcon has to be smart when approaching a fox, one mistake can get him seriously punished. And I haven't even mentioned how much Fox owns his recovery. Bairs literally give him no chance, and one Shine can do it all :)


HOLLA

[silentsoul]

I PWN WITH FALCO.....but links down b attack the and the falcos fB attack not the best combo BELIVE ME....

[Thomaz]

Eh...Link's Down B is a Bomb. o_O

And I don't see how a Firefox/Firebird could ever be an useful combo.

And ontopic, I think Jigglypuff and Marth counter Fox the most. Marth because of range and floatiness and Jigglypuff because of those sick Rest combo's. ;_;

But everyone said that already. =P

[FlowinWater]

Fox can OWN jiggly, He can kill her mad quick. I doubt the jiggs can even grab him. Or even yet get him into rest combos. Fox can trade blows with her. Bair, for example. If you feel she is too close to you Shine the puffball away. Upsmash and Uair can be your kill moves. She dies at like 60% when you hit her with either. Bair can kill her pretty easily to.

You don't have to worry about WOP either just keep abusing that speed to space your self out, aproach the jiggs with Nairs to build up damage, or play safe with lasers.

Just make sure your Fox has good Lcancels so she won't grab you.

HOLLA

[D-Man]

Originally posted by Fei-Sheik
I can't find ne weekness for fox...i realy wanna know so i can master that weekness, thanks for the help. o and..i dunt know aout you...but i have trouble vs. ganon...hehe


Thanks.

I'm a pro in Smash(considered) and I would say u should use Falco. In my opinion from experence a good Falco will wreck a good Fox. Assuming your a good Falco/Fox (I only use Falco I will pick up Fox soon) the key to defeat fox is edge guard. Getting him off the stage is your problem

[Animal control]

Fox has no character that can bets him, his weeknees is his short such as falco and marth take adventist of that.

[quak]

Fox's only weaknesses are samus, falco, and marth. Fox can destroy peach luigi doc ect right back.

yeah but getting d-smashed by a peach while your trying to wave shine makes it risky to go for, especially if you can be read somewhat

[Gray]

Fox has no character that can bets him, his weeknees is his short such as falco and marth take adventist of that.
Do you have any idea how old this thread is? Not trying to flame you but don't post in dead topics next time.

[audreyh]

ice climbers anyone?

[krazyzyko]

Fox's main weekness is that he can be chainthrowed by most of the characters and characters that have somewhat advantages over him are: Peach, Marth and Falco.

................later

[Sinz]

11-28-2004, 08:38 AM
Today, 12:46 AM
problems anyone?

[BrTarolg]

personally i hate falco - not because of SHB spamming though

but SHB APPROACHING.

countering spam is easy, reflector 2 shots he does, and then fire off 2 of your own. each one you reflector does extra damage to him and its easy to counter a spammer

however someone who uses it rarely, but uses it to stun and approach - thats what you should be scared off.

because even if you reflector the shot, you are stunned and cannot JC.

there JHAVE been rare instances where ive managed to reflector both falco and the laser he shoots at the same time, but thats only on his bad timing.

when his timing is good - you can duck under the laser and reflector

if he is approaching with an air - shieldgrab.

if he is approaching from ground, go for reflector.

the problem is, its easy for him to do it - shff a blaster and then follow it up with an air or ground move.
but for the fox you have to make good predicitions and have good reactions.