Discussion on The Cape

[maelstrom218]

As a former Doc user who recently converted to Mario, I feel compelled to talk about one of his most unique moves. . .the Cape.

Personally, I believe the Cape to be one of the most versatile and unique moves in SSBM (outside of Fox’s shine, of course). Its uses range from deflecting projectiles, changing direction in midair, recovery, turning around opponents, anti-recovery, and stopping aerial movement.

Unfortunately, for all its uses, the Cape is limited in actual fighting situations—its lag is horrendous, and using it at any time makes you vulnerable, especially while using it on the ground.

My question to all you Mario/Doc users is this: how are you using the Cape in unique or strategic ways? Everyone uses it for recovery, reflecting, etc., but how are you applying the Cape to situations outside of its standard uses?

For example, one of the Cape’s best qualities is its ability to stop movement in mid-air. With this, you can evade mid-air juggling (think Fox’s AUA) by screwing up your opponent’s sense of timing (similar to Samus’ morphball bombjumps). Or you could counter a shield grab happy opponent by short-hopping a Cape to turn your him around when they’re shielding, fast-falling, then using your own grab.

OK, so my examples aren’t that great. . .but you get the idea. It’d be a shame to let such a versatile move go to waste, since most people tend to avoid the Cape b/c of its lag.

So how are you using the Cape in unique ways/situations? Discuss!

[FERNO]

Yeah the cape is great especially when you are whooping on your opponent pretty bad then when they think they have an opening you cape.

Dash dance cape I like. mistiming effects.
The cape is also a very good combo continuer because instead of using double jump a cape may be able to substitute.
Caping before you land can be effecttive for mistiming but dont abuse it.
Cape WD as you land, can really trick the opponent.
Cape is great for protecting yourself against edge guards.
Samus edge guards, Forward smash edge guards, Make the opponent mistime a edge hog roll.
Also if the opponent breaks sheild,cape like3-5 times then smash or whatever for more damage.

I might have som more tricks but hopefully that helps.:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[TWP]

Form my expierences with the cape, it's amazing use is completely destroying a few characters recoveries. Most potent in matches versus Fox or falco, but can also do a number on C. falcon, Gannondor to name a few.

As they approach the edge (they have to be perfect sweet - spotters...which also can lead to a few mind games) just cape 'em if they miss the sweet spot, they will be truned around and continue in the direction away form the edge. Needless to say this is very handy. If you leanr this down pat, It can mean instant death to any one of these characters that misses a sweet spot.

[Peaches]

As said it's great against spamming and shield grabbing, but it's also awesome for turning in the air because it's a defensive move as well as offensive. Perhaps the funniest use for it is in a free for all, awesome things have happened such as reversing a Ganon Fsmash and hitting someone, then Fsmashing the Ganon. Although I guess that wasn't nearly as good as the time I reversed a homerunbat and hit someone else.

It's best use could possibly be edguarding, you can just jump off and cape someone; or you can run off and cape the way you came, thus grabbing the ledge easily.

IT sure can screw you though if they read it.

[Powda193]

peaches pretty much hit on my favorite use. I use mario and like to jump way out there to meet a recovering opponent. Mario's Uair is really nice out there, and then u can use the cape to turn urself around and get back. Also, when using the cape on someone like fox or falco, even if they are perfect sweet-spotters, u can drop down, cape them away, cape to turn urself around and get back. Also, when recovering, you can use the d+B to get a little more distance and then the cape. If im high enuf when recovering i do this (jump(if i got it), cape, d+b, cape, up+B). Its nice. However, Doc's cape just isnt as good as marios... he falls faster, i dont like it as much.

[uwantsumshrimp]

i play mario as one of my main chars too, and beyond what you've already mentioned about the greatness that is the cape, I sometimes use it after a backwards WD to cover rather than a jab/d.smash combo or a f.smash. It can surprise them and set you up to either f.smash or WD forward for a grab/whatever you want.

Edit: Almost forgot, I sometimes cape after dropping from/jumping back from the ledge. Makes for a handy and for the most part, safe, return to the stage. Take note that you may want to drop a bit lower than you would for a normal ledge hanging attack before using your jump because the cape will give a bit of verticle rise and the startup lag of the cape can virtually be cancelled out by starting it just a little after mario's head is slightly above the ledge. This usually equals a safe recovery, be wary of using this against someone who ledgeguards with attacks such as peach's dsmash/anything that will hit all around/anything that you can successfully cape and still get hit by. Duh!

[The Cape]

Who said you could discuss me?

As for Mario and Doc's capes, something I like to do is this. When you do the drop, jump, and attack off a wall hang. I like to drop, jump and cape, stops anyone from hitting you while you get up, very safe. Also, if someone is there, it leaves them wide open.

[Rokutanda]

i play as Dr.Mario and i love the cape and all my friends fear it. some of the luckiest plays in the game have come from cape usage. like my one friend uses samus and he tried to use the "blue ball*" on me at point blank and i pulled the cape at the last minute and killed him for the win X'D. im also an edge guard champ well... sometimes. i havent been playing to well as of late.but i use it strict;y as defense when i play and it helps me alot.

[Ray Grievous]

Is there any attack etc the cape doesn't work on?

--Ray

[maelstrom218]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. . .if you're asking whether or not the Cape can deflect every single projectile that's thrown at it, then heck yes. It's just a matter of good timing and knowing whether you should use the Cape or not; you obviously don't want to use it to deflect Falco's Short Hop Blaster, or Shiek's needles, as they're too fast.

If you use the Cape on an opponent who's attacking you, but hasn't hit you yet, you'll also be able to turn them around and cause them to attack in the opposite direction (especially w/ smashes and dash attacks). But Caping on the ground tends to be rather risky.

[Blind]

Actually maelstrom, if you predict the SHB and falco lands right in your face you can cape both him AND the blaster, stacking on damage for both hits, spinning falco around, and stunning him. I've succeeded at it multiple times, and it is a great tool for stoping falco's offense. His already poor recovery suffers thanks to the cape as well; a bthrow off the stage at early percents can mean a ko for the bird with a well timed cape to his forwardb or upb. Same with fox, since his double jump is so poor (it's not _bad_ per se, but compared to falco's it isn't much, and combined with his fast falling is something you can exploit) you can screw him out of lives early as well, but definitely watch out for falco's forward b spiking you. The timing is difficult but worth mastering, since you can return an eye for an eye the cheap ko's the space animals are known for.

The cape does more than simply reflect attacks and spin people around - it does damage, and scares the enemy. If you think Mario is going to cape, wouldn't you wait for him to do it before attacking, so you could take a little damage for an important hit? Especially if you _thought_ he was going to cape, _knew_ he was going to cape, and waited for it so you could screw him up? It's like Jiggly's rest in that respect (not quite as deadly but you see my point) in that you can scare the opponent into avoiding it at the cost of suffering other attacks. The hesitation brought on by a fear of the cape could be all you need to make an opening for yourself.

Watch out that you don't try to cape purely vertical attacks, like CF's spike and Falco's spike... the enemy turns around and the attack still hits you, making you feel ridiculous.

[Ray Grievous]

That's precisely what I meant, with the exception that I didn't just mean projectiles. For example, say a Falco uses its Firebird and is all fiery... Can you turn it around?

--Ray

[Rokutanda]

yes you can turn any of falco/fox's attacks around as i have deminstrated many a time with the exception the the shine reflector thingy and the fact that falco/fox is a fast faller helps alot just time it right and you should be able to defend against most attcks. Maelstrom as for shieks needles i towl those more times then not because if you look well enough you can see them flying through the air....

[fraypika]

Whose recovery does the cape screw up. I know it does real good against fox and falco but go beyond that. What about links whirling blade and stuff like that.

[Tehjesus]

the cape on links whirlwind attack is f-ing useless! use the cape on like gannon or c.falcon right when the grab the ledge....no grabby grabby!

[Fogel]

Originally posted by fraypika
Whose recovery does the cape screw up. I know it does real good against fox and falco but go beyond that. What about links whirling blade and stuff like that.

You can mess up just about any character's recovery that doesn't cover both their sides (DK, Link), or makes them invincible (Shiek), or makes them disappear (Pikachu, Zelda, M2, ...), etc. Fox and Falco are the obvious examples for easy cape edge guards, but it also works very well on Gdorf/CFalcon's recovery. Even Mario/Doc/Marth/Roy's recovery can even be caped back if they do their Up-Bs too high, and you have good spacing and timing :)

[Blind]

Well, Link can grab the ledge no matter what direction he's facing, so in that regard turning him around doesn't help. An interesting effect the cape has though is to give Link extra vertical distance - I don't know if that's useful at all, but...
You can't cape Shiek's triple jump, since she's invincible during the whole thing :/
Of course, you can cape things like regular attacks too; if you see an f-smash coming towards you, cape the opponent and they turn around. Handy in the case of CF's knee :P. If you're feeling particularly daring and Jiggly uses her rollout on you, you can cape her in the other direction - if she happens to go off the side of the stage, that's an added bonus. She can turn around though, so watch out.
I'm wondering if you can cape things like Pikachu's thunder attack and have it hurt him instead. I know you can powershield it and at the right distance I think Fox and Falco can use the shine to do the same thing, but I need to try out the cape.
By the way, Doc's cape does not give him _ANY_ vertical recovery, whereas Mario's gives him a noticeable boost, so keep that in mind when returning to the stage.

[fraypika]

yea i know you can use the cape to turn the opponent around when they are trying to hit you. It comes in handy in some situations. I don't really like to do it against jiggles rollout just because my timing is off and usually get my *** rocked by it when i do try to be daring. I also knew doc's cape kinda sucks to get back on the stage but it does give a little extra help. This is why i prefer to play mario over doc but doc has alot more powerful moves. I am kinda torn between to the two. I might just go to Marth and **** em both.

[CORY]

about popping link up with the cape: that actually has a pretty good use in edgeguarding. if he's try ing to come in and sweetspot the recovery, you space out your cape so the bottom corner of it just catches him as he gets near the edge. that'll pop him up over the edge, onto the stage, where you can fsmash/fair him back off for fun and profit.

[IceDragonTwins]

The pop up effect of Docs cape is my favorite part of it. When egde guarding, if they pop up, they almost always have enough of a stun to f-smash them back to ****. The only thing is, I'm not sure what causes it. could someone provide me with insight? It would help greatly as cape to f-smash is my favorite finish combo, but it only works when they get the pop-up or when they use a high lag move.

[Alucard258]

Well actually, the cape can do something to Shieks recovery. I fyou hit her with it when shes doing the little jump thingy before her Up-B it sends her up and adds vertical recovery. But also, you can cape someone right before they grab the edge even if they are trying to sweetspot the ledge. You just have to have really good timing. It works against anyones, even Shieks.

[demoncaterpie]

Originally posted by Alucard258
Well actually, the cape can do something to Shieks recovery. I fyou hit her with it when shes doing the little jump thingy before her Up-B it sends her up and adds vertical recovery. But also, you can cape someone right before they grab the edge even if they are trying to sweetspot the ledge. You just have to have really good timing. It works against anyones, even Shieks.

Good times, good times :D :D :D :D

Also, it's really fun to cape a fox when he is just about use his recovery.

[My Mom]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the cape can hit people who are already hanging on the edge. You can catch someone by surprise with it, either killing them outright (unlikely) or setting up further edgeguarding. Most people will not be able to sweet spot the edge after you cape them, so you can either cape them again or dsmash, etc. when they come back up. Keep in mind that this will only work once or twice before they catch on.

Another edgeguarding technique for the cape is to hit someone with it when they try to drop from the edge, then double-jump back up with a fair (is there terminology for that?). Of course, that will only work if you can anticipate what your opponent is going to do.

[Rokutanda]

does anyone else find the cape(or towl as my friends put it) strangley erotic?

[uwantsumshrimp]

sorry homie, but no, not in the least bit. lol

[CORY]

there're a bunch of neat little tricks for the cape.

if you cape someone while they're hanging on the edge after their invincibility wears off, they go into stun fall, affected by damage. same if you hit them as they're standing up, jumping or rolling (after their invincibility time wears off if they haven't done anything else to regain control themselves). if you hit someone who's attacking from the edge at the right time, it'll actually teleport them to the opposite ledge, which is rather nice on stages like mkII where there is no opposite ledge...

and it also adds alot to vertical movement. cape someone right as they jump and their jump height almost doubles. same with most upb's, if you hit them right as it starts (exception being peach's, cape her as she's flying up with the parasol not open and she'll go into a damage dependant stun fall). so, if there's any upwards movement and you cape, you'll add more to it, which is why it's good for catching links and samii who like to try and sweetspot.

[fraypika]

i could just figure it out on my own but i will just ask...... What effect does the cape have on marth. Does it just turn him around or raise him higher. My guess is it depends on if he sweetspots it or not. I dunno?

[Rokutanda]

i could just figure it out on my own but i will just ask...... What effect does the cape have on marth. Does it just turn him around or raise him higher. My guess is it depends on if he sweetspots it or not. I dunno?
wouldnt it do both? i use the cape alot but never really pay attention to the effects.... so i hve no idea

[Blind]

Timing with the cape feels awkward to me... the cape will reflect projectiles for what feels like an eternity but won't do the same to triple jumps and attacks except for a very small window... is there any definite, visible clue that lets you know when it's effective? I'd like to get the timing down so I can annoy people more :P

[CORY]

it always increases vertical movement and always flips, there's just not always vertical movement going on. if you can manage to catch him while he's going up, he'll go higher and flip around.

as for attacks: i've noticed it always flips, but alot of times the attack's hitbox just goes through the cape's "flipbox" so you basically trade hits, taking their attack but flipping them right afterwards. there is that window when the cape's fully extended that you have alot more range to flip things without getting hit, though.

also, you can't flip stuff that can't be hit (outside of projectiles). i.e. swords. if you try to cape marths's sword during his fsmash, only hitting the sword but not his hand, it won't flip him around. rather annoying...

[fraypika]

So docs or marios cape can't turn marth's around unless it is actually on him. That is good news for a marth player unless your mario of course.

When playing with mario or doc does everybody use the cape a ton to switch opponents around instead of blocking or a little bit of both? Or do they cape just at high percentages or low? I rarely use the cape about the only time is when i use it for recovery and ruining everybody elses recovery.

[CORY]

i just sorta go randomly with the cape. it's fun to ***** it on grabbers and watch them get glitched and fall over from it, as well as just cape random attacks and smack them on the back (or donkey punch, whichever's fun).

[fraypika]

ahhh i see but i guess i do use the cape right before i touch the ground from the air every now and then. It works with doc but now mario cause his cape brings him up and docs drops but none the less i find it useful to do this.

[CORY]

with mario you can cape the drop into a sex kick or uair ^^ it's annoyingly effective, but i've gotten so used to doc's physics i'd never be able to do that if i played mario.

[fraypika]

I was a little unclear with the post above but just in case you didn't understand... i cape right before i hit the ground only when they are dashing at me so i can quick turn them around f smash them or whatever and no damage to me! Like i said it works better with doc. Sometimes it doesn't work cause i always try to get it in the last second so they don't see it coming but i always do it to late. My timing sucks. Oh well i am good enough for my satisfaction. Might have to try and work in your tatic

By the way if you want to answer or not who do you prefer Mario or doc.... I like Mario better just because of recovery and better reach for f smash

[CORY]

i go for doc. started with him and i just like his play better. besides, scav plays mario and i don't like the idea of being totally upstaged everytime i play him.

[BalefireBoy]

Hey, here's a fun thing I haven't heard mentioned yet.

If you're playing against a Jiggly that missed it's Rest then cape it 3 or 4 times before you unleash your forward smash. Cape doesn't wake Jiggly up so you can get some good damage on jiggs on top of a charged, spaced f-smash. Good times.

[Zephel]

Mario is my main character, and in my opinion, his cape is the BEST special move in the game. My friends get pissed when I use the cape against them while they are returning to the edge, especially if they alredy used their Up+B move. Also, if you deflect a Pokeball with the cape, it will become yours. Plus, many players prefer to shield your attacks so they can grab you, again, and again, and again... With the cape, just reverse their direction and laught as they try to grab you in the oposite direction, then smash them. You can also use the cape when they are using the Up+B, or in some cases, Foward+B (Luigi, Fox,etc.) and you'll send them right down to oblivion.

I also use it to delay my falls and return to the edge. When I get knocked out pretty bad, I use Down+B and quickly press B repeatly while moving to the right until the Tornado ends, then I use the cape followed up by the second jump and finally the Up+B if it's necesary. If I'm hanging on the edge, I tilt back, jump, then cape the waiting opponent's Smash attack to reverse it and maybe hit someone who was behind him (Hilarious!!). You can even reverse opponent's Dash attacks to hit other opponent. That's as far as I can remember of my cape uses, good luck!!

[PillSpammer]

How to cape characters:

Dr. Mario/Mario/Luigi -- timing... start cape when u think they'll start their up B. You can also cape Luigi's forward B... just watch out for his special forward B... always a nice surprise.

Link/Young Link -- if you cape them right when they start their up B, it messes with the physics of their jump, so they end up going higher and landing not where they meant to. if you cape them while they are already twirling, you'll most likely get hit before pulling it off. If you do it as soon as they finish twirling, but right before they grab on to the ledge, they will turn around and fall to their deaths.

Ganondorf/CF - you know how to do it...

DK -- if you cape him while he's spinning, it'll make him go a little higher again messing with the physics. if it so happens that DK stops spinning right before grabbing the ledge, you can still cape him.

Fox/Falco -- cape the UP+B or the FORWARD+B. Up B can only be caped once fox/falco starts moving, but anytime after that he's free game. Smart fox/falco players know about the cape, and will try to aim their UP+B straight up... much more difficult to cape this way. Forward+B must be caped right when it starts.... (my personal favorite way). (Note: Fox's shield spike is annoying. A sex kick will counter it... Smart fox players will just jump over those pills that Dr Mario players throw when trying to get back onto a ledge, and shield spike you anyway. Caping fox when he tries to shield spike words sometimes as well)

Jiggly -- cape his b attack. it works.

Ness -- i feel bad for ness. Cape him, or cape the blue yoyo. either way, he will die. it's funny, because when u cape him, the controls for the blue yoyo become reversed. You cannot cape him once he is being projected. you will get hurt (most of the time).

Marth/Roy -- cape their up+b... you 'll must likely get hit, but the cape still goes through. caping their forward smashes is fun also, because they're enough lag for doc/mario to run in and have fun.

Peach: if you cape peaches up+B, she will still get back on the ledge.

Shiek -- my method for caping is to do it as soon as i hear the "poof" sound when she disappears for a second while doing her up B. (Zelda is easier to cape)

Samus -- when you cape samus, it makes her go up higher and land in front of you or behind you, but on the ground. easy set up for a smash attack.

Pikachu/Pichu -- forward+B is very capable. very funny especially if pichu is on the ground because they can't cancel out of the move. :-D

Bowser -- difficult to cape... cape will only make bowser go higher. [but hey, you're mario, you should be kicking bowser's butt]

Mr G&W-- i'm not sure... i don't think i've ever played a G&W with my Doc.

Yoshi -- yoshi is pretty hard to cape.... the key is to get the yoshi player to waste their first jump somehow while they're off the edge.

Kirby - cape the up+B... it's fun.

Ice Climbers -- hard to cape cuz they go so high...


Things of interest that have probably already been discussed:

-you can cape samus' bombs. they in effect, become your own bombs.
-you can cape ness's huge green explosion
-you CANNOT cape Mr G&W's Oil Panic... try it, it's funny
-When you cape fox's laser, it does more damage to him than to you.
-2 Dr Mario's playing against each other can repeatedly cape a pill back and forth and it will hurt one of them a lot.

Hope that was useful... comments/criticism always welcome.

[VilNess]

Originally posted by PillSpammer
How to cape characters:


Ness -- i feel bad for ness. Cape him, or cape the blue yoyo. either way, he will die. it's funny, because when u cape him, the controls for the blue yoyo become reversed. You cannot cape him once he is being projected. you will get hurt (most of the time).



Hope that was useful... comments/criticism always welcome.


well I´m just gonna comment my PAL Ness here :D

I think you mean edgeguarding here, because you mentioned he´s gonna die.
Good Ness don´t shoot themselves so near the stage that any mario can come and cape `em. this leaves marios to stay in stage or ledge.
You can try edgehogging and if the Ness goes over the edge and falls to sweetspot the edge I guess you could try to cape him then.
This can be dangerous since a Ness might try bouncing off the edge upwards and will hit you. If mario sees this coming he can just stay on stage and cape Ness from there. But if Ness thinks he´ll do that then he´ll just try to sweetspot the thunder.
It ends up as an interesting guessing game.
Oh, and IMO Mario is one of Ness harder matchups, but not Doc. Marios Fsmash is ideal against Ness.... but that´s already off topic.