Is there a way to use crouch canceling in a combo?

[Sirus10]

Hey I was just wondering it is possible to use crouch canceling in a combo.

[Oro]

You mean, if while you're comboing, then, no, I don't see how you would do this. Crouch Cancelling is a defensive maneuver.

If, however, you mean while your opponent is comboing you, then the answer is: It depends.

If the combo launches you into the air, you'll no longer be able to CC it because you'll no longer be on the ground. That was a pretty stupid sentence.

If, however, the combo is a pretty weak series of attacks that don't knock you too much, then you can. One instance is Marth and Roy's forward B combos. If you crouch cancel the first hit, you won't have enough time to retaliate before the second or third hit. But you can continue crouch cancelling them and downsmash or downtilt between the third and fourth hits. I think, however, that one of their third hits (forward, maybe?) has too much knockback to CC; I don't know offhand.

So in short, if you know the opponent's next attack is going to come before you can downsmash (the quickest move you can do after a CC) then you can try to CC the next hit before you retaliate. If you guess incorrectly, and downsmash anyways, you won't CC the next attack and it could lead to a further combo for you opponent.

[Sirus10]

Thanks but also coudn't you CC until they got close enough to use samus bomb on them so you could stun them then attack them with samus a attack.

[Testament]

Why wait to see if they'll get close enough to drop a bomb on them when d-smash works with better range and knockback, and also stands a good chance at sending the opponent off the stage? Waiting for them to get within bomb range would mean you'd be taking more damage than necessary, and if the opponent doesn't come close enough to eat a bomb, you basically soaked up all that damage and didn't get anything out of it. If you're going to CC, make sure to do it when you know you'll stand a good chance at returning a blow within 1-2 hits (3 at most; any more, and you'd have most likely been better off trying to evade the blows).

[Sirus10]

Ok thanks:D

[Crash]

2 words, down tilt, best thing to do out of a croutch cancel, if you're at low enough % that you won't slide back to far from their aeriel, you can downtilt to put them back into the air, u air, then missle spam with your fun new range.

[Testament]

D-tilt is nice at low %s, but d-smash is definitely superior once the damage starts to roll in (d-tilt's effectiveness lowers as the opponent's damage increases). D-smash works beautifully to get characters off the level, and it's also Samus' best vertical kill move (bar the charge beam, which can KO both vertically and horizontally).

[Aftermath]

umm, you CAN CC moves that would normally send you straight up, if you smash down on the control stick as a falco shines you, guess what, you stay on the ground.

but as for dsmash vs dtilt, i think dtilt is infinitely better, dsmash may knock them off the stage at over 100% or even kill around 160%+, but a dtilt to a sweetspotted bair will kill or at the very least knock them off at as low as 60-70%. and once someone's off the edge against me, they almost always die, no matter what percentage.

[Testament]

Originally posted by Cap'n Crunch
but as for dsmash vs dtilt, i think dtilt is infinitely better, dsmash may knock them off the stage at over 100% or even kill around 160%+, but a dtilt to a sweetspotted bair will kill or at the very least knock them off at as low as 60-70%. and once someone's off the edge against me, they almost always die, no matter what percentage.

D-tilt is only useful up to around mid %s on the majority of characters; once they start flying high enough to where you can't hit them before they recover (and let's not forget to factor in DIs), d-tilt is officially useless. Against fast fallers, it's not much of a problem; against the rest of the cast, d-smash should be seeing more use over d-tilt in proportion to how floaty your opponent is.

[samusedaway]

I have to agree with crunch for one reason. The dtilt comes out way faster than the down smash especially after a cc. Besides most of samus's attacks are strong enougn that you don't need to hit them again afterwards.

[Testament]

The d-tilt does not come out *way* faster than the d-smash. This is Samus we're talking about, not Roy; try using the c-stick. If your opponent is being sent too far by the d-tilt for you to hit them again before they recover, why not switch it up to the d-smash? It has better knockback and damage, as well as a better default angle to send opponents off the stage. Start up time might be a hair slower, but it's not going to make too much of a difference.

[samusedaway]

No matter what you use, c stick or not, it's still slower than d tilit. And, if they are close enough that you have to resort to a d tilit or down smash should you really care if they don't get knocked all the way across the screen or the angle. Not if you're good enough. Plus if you're going to go with it being a hair slower why not go a hair faster with ONE percent less damage.

[Blazin Elf]

But at higher percentages D-smash is better than D-tilt because D-tilt will blast them to high to continue attacking but not high enough to kill while smash will either kill them or let you continue with the attack.

[samusedaway]

it all really depends on the opponent's damage

[Testament]

Opponent's damage and falling speed decide whether d-tilt or d-smash should be used; I stated this quite clearly before. The faster your opponent falls, the longer d-tilt will be useful (assuming you're good at chasing DIs). Against anyone who isn't Fox/flaco/Falcon, you're going to have to switch it up to d-smash sooner rather than later. The d-smash also isn't that slow in coming out; the minute difference in start up times isn't enough to really be concerned about. If it was, don't you think d-tilt would be seeing more use as a CC'd attack than d-smash?

[samusedaway]

I see your point. I must have over looked your comment earlier. I appologize, but I have seen many people use d tilit as a cc'ed attack.

[Aftermath]

actually, anyone who has a falling speed as fast or faster than sheik, dtilt can be abused with great results, assuming you can chase DI's like Testament stated. after doing so, you can just wd back a couple times to uair or double jump a bair if they don't DI or go toward you. trust me, i don't actually play against that many floaties too often, maybe once or twice a week, and i've found that dtilt is usually the better option, however at the high percentages, you're better off with a fsmash.

[samusedaway]

I was basing my post off a video of Isai vs. Ken where most of the time he uses the dtilt instead of down smash after ccing. Of course he does use the down smash, but at more opportune times.