Luigi vs Marth

[reffie2]

Post your 'vs marth' tactics here.

1: Dash/WD to marth. Side step. Marth players will mostly use forward tilt or forward smash. You can dodge those with your sidestep. Because you're luigi, you can slide to marth. You dodge his attack and you're close enough to attack him.
2: Play on stages that don't have much platforms like battlefield. Marth can camp under a platform and use his up-tilt.
3: When you're in the air and marth is trying to juggle you. You have to use the b-down to confuse him. Mostly marth players don't know what to do or they will miss you.
4: Use the cyclone(b-down) to spin to marth. When marth uses his tilt-forward, you can block his attack. Marth and luigi will stand still, you can quickly attack him if you're close to him. Otherwise run away or use WD.
5: If you grabbed marth and you're near the edge. Throw marth of the edge. Jump and use your aerial back(you have to turn around first). If marth jumps, you can use aerial back so he can't make it to the edge. Use edge-hog if necesarry. If marth uses his forward air than he can't make it to the edge mostly.

This is all the things I can remember at the moment.

[PXTalon2000]

About point number one. Quite often that gets you a guaranteed upB (I know Fsmash and dashgrab do XD! Dunno 'bout JCed grab but maybe..). UpB is only worthwhile if you can KO, otherwise utilt.

Essential to any swordsman battle: WD from the shield. Luigi, of course, slides back considerably after blocking attacks, so you have to close the distance quickly in order to take advantage of the lag. You won't always be able to get a hit in. WD jabs are pretty safe. If you're getting grabbed because you're shielding that's not horrible. Marth's throws are mostly weak and, though they put you in uncomfortable positions, they shouldn't actually combo.

As always, a sliding, upangled ftilt can chain or combo into an aerial.

Be careful about approaching an aerial Marth! You have to know his range and his true lag fully. But if he's in air, the sex kick may be your best bet. Getting him in a sex kick at as high a point as you can may help you accomplish a vertical KO.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dtilt to sex kick works for a KO combo at late percentages.

Recovering against him takes a good deal of practice.. be very careful just how far you let yourself fwd B. That fsmash is awful. It's important to DI correctly so that you won't have to rely on down and upB's. Save the double jump and don't forget the air dodge. Luigi's warp is crazy, but it's only good for preventing dtilt; it won't save you from fsmash, but if you count on the warp, Marth hopefully won't be able to assert one quickly enough.

Edgeguarding... I don't think you should just jump out at him. Marth usually should give himself ample time to fair and still upB to the ledge. If he doesn't, then he probably could have been edgehogged anyway.

As he's recovering, WD towards him. If he's very careless about his angle, you will be able to ftilt him... Or run off the edge and dair or fair him. You may also have an opportunity to bair him back into the stage's wall. But if it looks like he's gonna' have an easy time grabbing the edge, turn while sliding and hog. If you see an opening (like the downlag from the fB) attack instantly.

If he's recovering from above, don't jump out at him and expect him to not fair you away. Rather wait for a sort of checkmate, and try to get an ftilt in.

Sometimes you don't have a choice about where to fight Marth. (Since people will counterpick Luigi with Marth and you may be stuck with a slob stage choice). Good thing to know:
Luigi actually can fight a Marth below his platform. Shield such that Marth knocks you off the platform, but let go of the shield button before you slide off completely so you aren't in a flail. Sometimes you'll be able to get a hit in during the winddown lag; sometimes you'll just need to airdodge/triangle jump. Try to position yourself such that you can use that.

With dashdancing and wavedancing mindgames... If you find Marth attempting it as you yourself dance, that's usually a good time to just thrust yourself in with a downB or a WD.

Dealing with Marth's juggles... Intelligent DI. At later %'s, Luigi will be able to ascend Marth's juggling potential. To go along with downB maneuvering... Save your fastfall. You need all the maneuvering options you can get for this situation. Luigi should not be vulnerable to double shorthopped fair, so be quick on the recovery.

That good for now?

[AWrulez]

Marth and Luigi is a very tough matchup. It'd be a bit closer if Luigi's fireballs were more similar to Mario's or Doc's pills (translation: if his didn't suck), so he has something to work with, but that is not the case. I would never want to fight Marth head on, on a flat stage. I'd get on a platformed stage, and use Luigi's air game and hit and run tactics. If Marth is in front of you on top of a platform, drop down, and then jump up air, and before reaching the ground, double jump up air for a nice 27%, with still plenty of combo opportunities to come. Marth is only really vulnerable from below, and if you're coming up below him through a platform, he can't do anything. Of course, he can do the same to you, but just play smart, and you'll stand a chance. Wavedashing around is always useful, so link your combos with wavedashes. If you chop him to the other side of Battlefield, land with a super wavedash, and catch up to him.

So basically IMO against Marth you should:

- try not to choose a flat stage
- play hit and run, wavedashing, jumping, dodging and dropping through platforms until you have the upper hand in positioning.

[TobiasXK]

Yea, Marth isn't the greatest matchup... He dominates the air with range, priority and a disjointed hitbox which makes breaking with the sex kick a touch more difficult. He has power, range and the disjointed hitbox on the ground, and a great deal of priority there, as well. Luigi's wavedash can screw the placement of tippers, and is very quick to wavedance and punish whiffed f-smashes and the like. I like to use wavesmash down to put him in the air. If I can, I place the sex kick immediately, and try to follow up perfectly. That's basically what Luigi has to do, I think. Luigi's too floaty for Marth to easily land double fairs, but a tipper fair can utterly destroy Luigi from the air so I either try to break priority or evade. Luigi's floatiness can also screw Marth's combos on occasion...

I play Lui defensively, or moreso than usual, anyways... Dashcancelled spot dodges and wavedash spot dodges work wonders here, but Marth can recover quick enough from certain attacks to where he can hit you anyways immediately after the dodge ends, and it's hard to time, so you need great reactions. I think Lui needs to get in hits where they count, and follow up, and then go back to defense... A sort of guerrilla warfare-type gameplay; hit and run, like AW said. A well-placed sex kick can work, but is hard to get in, except from below in instances. Marth isn't retardedly hard to edge guard... The fair and dair are great when you can land them, and bairs to ledgeguard... meh. I try to put in throws where I can get them, maybe up throw sex kick fair where it can connect, double aerials, staggered airs, wavesmashes and grabs, waveshielding to get into range, wavedashing out of the shield to follow up shielded hits, falling down+b's to break juggles...

Recovery... sweetspot the edge. That's what I do. Green missile in bursts, so that I don't get too close to the edge, but rather underneath it where an up+b catches the ledge. I also save my second jump, since Lui doesn't exactly have the least predictable recovery, and it gets extra height and can stagger recovery. Fairs from the edge, maybe with a wavesmash to follow up... but the d-tilt f-smash can screw Luigi

So yea...

-wavedash
-guerilla warfare
-break priority
-falling down B's
-sweetspot the edge
-don't get pwned

[reffie2]

You're right, I forgot that marth can juggle you more easilly on a flat stages(double jump, up-air, fastfall and again). If a marth player doesn't doublejump to attack you than he'll mostly do this: he's standing on the ground right below you, when you go to the right he will go to the right etc. When you're in range he'll use up-tilt. You can airdodge to the ground and use quick attacks like tap-a. You can also confuse him by using b-down in the air, you can try that to run away. Doesn't work always against smarth players though.

[Sintenal]

i have a vid of me beatin DSF's marth. my game vs marth is mostly throw combos and ledgeguarding. Maybe you can pick up some tactics to take marth with Luigi from that vid. you can get it on DC++