Jigglypuff counter

[Suretman]

I'm not a Jiggly player but I would like to know what characters counter her or give her the most trouble. Thanks.

[Vinnie]

I'll answer your question, but answer mine too, tell me why the ++++ you made this topic when there is one not too far below this one entitled "jigglypuff counter characters"! I dont care that mutch really and the character specific boards are a mess coz mods dont even bother to check them but still, why would you do such a thing?

Ok I am gona do this by makeing a list, I guees you could call them tiers of counter characters at the top being the ones that do best vs jiggly and bottom the ones that do worst.

Top:
shiek
zelda
marth
falcon
pikachu
ice climbers
samus
fox
falco
peach

Middle:
ness
luigi
mario
dr mario
gannondorf
yoshi
mr game and watch
pichu
roy

Bottom:
kirby
link
young link
donkey kong
mewtwo
bowser

If I thought about it for a while I could probally do some changes to this list. Its nowhere near perfect just a rough guide to what characters to use aginst jiggly.

[pictish freak]

Just a quick comment on that list:

From what I've seen, using Fox/Falco against jiggs is close to suicide, and not just cause of U-throw rest.

[Neophos]

Jiggs is NOT best against Bowser. he will survive rest combos when hes under 35-45%, he will ´Fortress her to doom at 75%, with CC maybe a little more...


and Falco is the one she ****s most. Rest combo on almost any %, with almost any move, float over SHB, edgeguard to kill at minimum %, more priority, deadly d smash near edges...

Falco is ultimate bottom.

DK isnt that easy. his bair can challenge hers in a air battle, both in speed to launch them and power and priority. He may be big, but hes fast enough not to get rest comboed easy.

Young Link?? unless he doesnt use projectiles, he can hold his own against Puff. projeciles hinder her approach, and his sword has more priority then Puffs attacks.

Same with Link. unless they go all aerial without projectiles, they can handle it decent.

[pictish freak]

Ahh, see, rest isn't a huge problem for Bowser since the risk of missing it is pretty much death (F-smash). But WoP is a huge problem for Bowser, he's big and can't get passed it easily.

On the other hand, Bowser can kill her in a few good hits.. so it's in Jiggs favour, I think, but it's not total rest-rape.

[Qwester]

WoP is the MAIN problem for Bowser when fighting Jiggs, but it's not the only one. It's not like Jigglypuff isn't going to go for rest if she sees the chance. Pound leads quite well into rest as long as the Bowser doesn't DI initially, if Puff sees that he hasn't moved out of the way, the rest is as good as hit. Any of Jiggs aerials can lead into a rest on Bowser, Jiggs just has to hit with the end of the hitbox and DI in for the rest.

Any lag Jiggs sees, rest.

Horrible match for Bowser.

[Vinnie]

Jiggs is NOT best against Bowser.
Apparently you dont understand my list, Its not who jiggly is best and worst aginst, interpret it like this - bowser is the worst to use aginst jiggly , NOT like jiggly is best aginst bowser, I never said jigglypuff is the best character to use aginst bowser, shiek is probally the best aginst bowser.

Falco is ultimate bottom.
WRONG. He does have trouble aginst jiggs and the rest is a problemb but they are good vs each other, falco has the spike, shine kills jiggs easy, and the upsmash kills easy too. All the characters below falco do worse aginst jiggly.

Young Link?? unless he doesnt use projectiles, he can hold his own against Puff. projeciles hinder her approach, and his sword has more priority then Puffs attacks.
His sword has about the same priority, depending on which sword move and all of them are slow and NOT powerful.

Ahh, see, rest isn't a huge problem for Bowser since the risk of missing it is pretty much death (F-smash). But WoP is a huge problem for Bowser, he's big and can't get passed it easily.
If you actually miss rest, ypur dead no matter what character your aginst so that argument is irrelavent. WoP completely destroys bowser.

On the other hand, Bowser can kill her in a few good hits..
Not at all, bowser's moves are over average in power and damage but they arent really that powerfull compared to alot of characters. Bowser can NOT kill her in a few good hits. Besides, its gona be really hard for bowser to get ANT hits on jiggs.

but it's not total rest-rape.
Yes it is... lol And rest isint the only thing, jiggs completely destroys boswer in so many ways.

WoP is the MAIN problem for Bowser when fighting Jiggs, but it's not the only one. It's not like Jigglypuff isn't going to go for rest if she sees the chance. Pound leads quite well into rest as long as the Bowser doesn't DI initially, if Puff sees that he hasn't moved out of the way, the rest is as good as hit. Any of Jiggs aerials can lead into a rest on Bowser, Jiggs just has to hit with the end of the hitbox and DI in for the rest.

Any lag Jiggs sees, rest.

Horrible match for Bowser.
Agreed

---

BTW, we are going off-topic, the topic is on counter characters to jigglypuff, and bowser is most deffidently not a counter to jiggz.

[pictish freak]

Vinnie - Bowser's attacks have huge priority power and knockback, don't try and claim otherwise. Also, it isn't total rest rapage.... saying 'lol, it is' doesn't mean anything, nor does saying things that aren't true, like most characters being stronger than Bowser? O.o

Edit: And when did ANYONE say Bowser was a jiggs counter? >.>

[Vinnie]

Bowser's attacks have huge priority power and knockback, don't try and claim otherwise.
I most deffidently do claim otherwise!!!
Lets clear some things up, first of all you said "priority power and knockback" but power and knockback are the same thing, its how far the character hit by the attack will be hit.
A common misconception about priority is that is has to do with the power of a move, that is completely wrong. Priority involves 2 factors, the hitbox of the move and the hitbox of the character. A move with good priority has a large hitbox and during the move the character not makeing its hitbox vurneable. Bowser has not so good priority because his moves dont have that big of a hitbox and he often moves his character's hitbox closer to the enemy while doing so. His knockback is OK, its over average, but not one of the best. By argueing that, your just argueing the facts.

Also, it isn't total rest rapage.... saying 'lol, it is' doesn't mean anything, nor does saying things that aren't true, like most characters being stronger than Bowser?
Bowser is the biggest character, and also very laggy and slow, those characteristics along with some others such as being defenseless in the air make it easy to use rest. And I never said most characters are stronger than bowser.

Edit: And when did ANYONE say Bowser was a jiggs counter? >.>
Noone did, and I never said that someone said that.

[pictish freak]

I most deffidently do claim otherwise!!!
Lets clear some things up, first of all you said "priority power and knockback" but power and knockback are the same thing, its how far the character hit by the attack will be hit.
A common misconception about priority is that is has to do with the power of a move, that is completely wrong. Priority involves 2 factors, the hitbox of the move and the hitbox of the character. A move with good priority has a large hitbox and during the move the character not makeing its hitbox vurneable. Bowser has not so good priority because his moves dont have that big of a hitbox and he often moves his character's hitbox closer to the enemy while doing so. His knockback is OK, its over average, but not one of the best. By argueing that, your just argueing the facts.

Power, I was reffering to damage. Knockback is distance sent. Different things indeed, don't tell me I don't know the difference.

Haha, You're the one Arguing against facts. Many of bowsers attacks have disjointed hit boxes, and the others have a HUGE hit box, much larger than most, as they cover Bowser's WHOLE body.

Trust me, you're the one arguing against the facts. Ask anyone: Bowser has the over all est knockback. Lets look at all his High power moves that are viable to KO with:

F-smash
D-smash
U-smash
F-tilt
U-tilt
Fortress
'Klaw
U-air
F-air
B-air

Yeah, just a few things. That's a very good range of KO moves.



Bowser is the biggest character, and also very laggy and slow, those characteristics along with some others such as being defenseless in the air make it easy to use rest. And I never said most characters are stronger than bowser.

Yes, you did

bowser's moves are over average in power and damage but they arent really that powerfull compared to alot of characters.

And it's utterly wrong. Bowser is big, in trade off, his moves have huge indiscriminate hit boxes. He's no where near as laggy as you think, and I'm hazarding a guess you've never seen a tourny level Bowser. I've seen a tourny level Bowser and multiple Jiggs ^^ thx.

Ok, so you done spouting false facts and assuming Bowser can't do anything cause he's bottom tier, or should I continue?

[KishPrime]

You all have probably not played a tourney-level bowser...

Fortress is real rough against Jiggly. It beats WoP pretty good, and Bowser can eliminate most of his really bad lag just by using the right moves. Without rest, I'd say Jiggly has a slight advantage. With rest, it gets a little bigger...but not much since Bowser can eat a rest pretty good till about 40%+. I think bowser is a legitimately good character to play against Jiggly.

[Vinnie]

Many of bowsers attacks have disjointed hit boxes, and the others have a HUGE hit box, much larger than most, as they cover Bowser's WHOLE body.
Let me start off and just say that you are INCORRECT. Which of bowser's attacks have disjointed hitboxes? none(except fire breath) Ok, the ones where he goes in the shell and spins like neutral air do cover his whole body but that does not mean it has good priority, the hit box may cover his whole body but that dosent matter in a 1 vs 1 match because lets say for example your attacking an opponent above you, your only gona use the part of the hitbox that is on the upper part of the body and the hitbox's vertical range is what would matter, the fact that is also would hit the opponent if it was below or on the sides would be irrelavent.

Trust me, you're the one arguing against the facts. Ask anyone: Bowser has the over all est knockback. Lets look at all his High power moves that are viable to KO with:

F-smash
D-smash
U-smash
F-tilt
U-tilt
Fortress
'Klaw
U-air
F-air
B-air

Yeah, just a few things. That's a very good range of KO moves.
In my previous post I said that his knockback was over average, but now you claim "Bowser has the over all est knockback", I assume by that you mean bowser has the best knockback out of all the characters overall. That is not true, gannondorf has better knockback in almost all of his moves than bowser.

Yes, you did
No, I did not. I looked through my posts could not find anywhere where I said "most characters are stronger than bowser"

And it's utterly wrong. Bowser is big, in trade off, his moves have huge indiscriminate hit boxes.
Jigglypuff out-prioritises ALL of bowsers moves in the air, so by that I am saying that if jigglypuff times her moves right, bowser cannot hit her.

He's no where near as laggy as you think
He is the laggiest character in the game. He is also the slowest.

Ok, so you done spouting false facts and assuming Bowser can't do anything cause he's bottom tier, or should I continue?
I never even mentioned bowser being bottom tier, and you can continue if you really want to.

---

Fortress is real rough against Jiggly.
jigglypuff has many options, either jump out of the way and punish the lag or simply use one of the following to out prioritize it: pound, f-air, b-air, d-air.

I think bowser is a legitimately good character to play against Jiggly.
Well, I put bowser at the bottom of my list of characters to use aginst jigglypuff, who do you think is worse aginst jigglypuff than bowser?

[Neophos]

It seems like i was wrong, then right, then wrong...

but whichever the case is, im sure that Bowsers is harder then most of the crew against Jiggs. hes not the hardest, he can be ****ed over by Jiggs, but a Falco will more often be ****ed over by Jiggs.

but since that is settled, i wont start it again. thanks for the knowledge i just gained, pictish.

oh, and vinnie, ever tried getting Fortress --> uair --> uair by Bowser. it more or less a 0% juggle to KO.

[Vinnie]

but whichever the case is, im sure that Bowsers is harder then most of the crew against Jiggs. hes not the hardest, he can be ****ed over by Jiggs, but a Falco will more often be ****ed over by Jiggs.
You really think bowser is better than falco aginst jigglypuff?

oh, and vinnie, ever tried getting Fortress --> uair --> uair by Bowser. it more or less a 0% juggle to KO.
To answer your question, no I have never tried that combo. So your bowser and you use the fortress when your opponent is at 0% then up air juggle them until they die? I never tried it so I dont know if it works but I dont think you can combo fortress to up air at 0%, you also should have mentioned what characters it works aginst.

[pictish freak]

I'm sorry, vinnie, but you're posting utter crap.

For the record, I've played a tourny level Bowser, none other than Decadent one, who I do play regularly.

Heh, funny how you don't even understand disjointed hit boxes...

I can't remember the list right now, but Deca listed hos moves with disjointed hit boxes once, and trust me, there was a ton.. bleh.

Also, I can't take you seriously when you say Ganon has more knockback than Bowser over. It's utter crap. Ganon does slightly more damage over (due to his down smash and up smash, mainly) and that's about it. Bowser has more knockback, mind you, you'll refute with 'no he doesn't lol' but he does, so shut up >.<

Next up, Bowser is NOT THE SLOWEST IN THE GAME. BY posting that he is I can clearly see you're talking crap.

Link and Samus are both slower, in running speed and just in general.. Bowser has fast attack. I bet when you think of Bowser you're just thinkinb about F-smash (which isn't even that laggy) and a few select other moves. Bah.

Seriously, you don't know the first thing about Bowser, don'\t try and correct me.

Oh, and don't try and act like you didn't say a lot of characters are stronger than Bowser. See my last post. I quoted it.

Bah, it's Awdbawl all over again... sorta

[Neophos]

IIRC, Fortress and f smash atleast were disjointed. i also think that the f smash is the longest smash in the game. it hits for almost a whole second.

and vinnie, lets look on knockback moves.

neutral a: Ganon
double a: Ganons doesnt hit, Bowsers
f tilt: Bowser
D tilt: Bowser
u tilt: Ganon (but hey, its also so useful!)
u smash: Ganon
f smash: Bowser
d smash: Bowser
dair: Ganon
fair: Ganon
bair: Ganon
uair: Bowser
nair: Bowser, i think.
B: Ganon (again, so useful)
smash B: Bowsers
down B: Bowser
up B: Ganon

many of these depends on who you use them on. because example, Ganons up B sends them horizontal, while Bowsers sends them vertical.


so, according to this, its 9-8 to Ganon, because of his 2 OHKO moves that are never used.

also, Ganons bair is stronger then his fair...i never knew that before :eek:

[tsetse]

ok on your list you have falcon over peach and luigi?

Peach and luigi give jiggs a harder time than falcon than. Those three jiggs peach and luigi are the most arial characters in the game.

[chesterr01]

Well, from my personal experience, my Jiggly counter in my capt. Falcon. He's quick enough to pass through the WoP by keeping space between puff's bair and him, then rushing in with the nair, fair or the jcgrab. Dashdance or wavedashing backwards is very useful against Puff.

The nair opens a lot of opportunities for Falcon, has he can fastfall it and reopen with an aerial at high percentages.

The only aerial that is not recommended against puff is the dair, IMO, that doesn't give him any real advantages at anytime. Usually, you could jcj a dair when the opponent's attacking from a grounded state, and follow up with a fair, but she tends to fly away too far.

Plus, it would seem dthrow sets up the puff easily for knees that kill at fairly low percentages. Falcon's dthrow execution is sped up (to know what I mean, chain grab Jigglypuff with Marth and notice the speed), and since puff is floaty, the knee combos can start at early percentages in her stock.

So IMO knee_ > puff.

N.B: Don't say the puff rapes Falcon recovery, everybody does.

[TiRune]

The characters I have problems against on tournaments with jiggles are Sheik and Marth. The rest is either tied evenly with my jiggs or I have an advantage.
Captain falcon is one of my jiggs favourite matchups, due to his sheer fast falling it's way 2 ez to ko captain falcon and with proper mind games in the air and using different types of approaches in general every time falcon can hardly hit you.

Falco isn't one of the worst characters against jiggly. uthrow into rest hardly works in tournament play since people can DI easily (sometimes you can still get them though cause of proper combooing but it's more of a small chance then a guarantee). Falco can also easily spike/shine combo jiggly for enough damage and his overall speed combined with mayb better mind games make him a tough challenge for jiggly overall.

vinnie, the list you posted is pretty crappy. Jiggly completely RAPES zelda if you know how to play her. lightning kicks will never hit if you stay put to the ground and counter the zeldas moves. especially wavedancing and dash dancin screw up zelda's timing which she needs to connect the lightning kicks. just keep moving and stay close to the ground and winning against zelda is a piece of cake.

and I completely agree that a good bowser is a tough matchup for jiggly, but I guess the people who say that jiggly pwns bowser never played a good bowser. come back when u played one :P. (little pink blob flying towards huge dragon bowser tickling him with WoP. Bowser @ whahaha, whirling fortress for teh win :O)

[Kone]

I agree with all your points tirune especially about flacos. A high level tournament falco will rarely get up throwed to rest. His speed then starts to really hurt your game.

I do however disagree about Bowser. Jiggly can dictate the entire match with just woping well. Really, a good Bowser has problems just getting through it. I play Deca , most likely best bowser in europe (bigmess may disagree) and he agrees ^-^.

Kone

[TiRune]

well, I guess you're the authority on the bowser vs. jiggles matchup. stats wise I would say it was pretty even, but I haven't actually played a great bowser so I guess I'll just have to believe you ^_^

[Umbreon]

roy and fox counter jiggly

[JesusFreak]

Um...

no.

Roy I can kinda see your point, but I think Jiggs has a slight advantage. Fox is also okay against Jiggly, but She can rape him so easily it's not even funny.

[tsetse]

Originally posted by JesusFreak
Um...

no.

Roy I can kinda see your point, but I think Jiggs has a slight advantage. Fox is also okay against Jiggly, but She can rape him so easily it's not even funny.

Can you elaborate pls. And since you play as puff alot who would be a counter for Jiggs. And does she have a counter at all.

[VilNess]

I read Pictish freaks argument with vinnie and gotta say that Picktish is right this time.
Bowser priority is awesome. If I remember correctly his f-tilt can clank with Marth´s F-smash!! :eek!:

And bowser is really fast at times, his shieldgame is great! What really helps bowsers speed is that he can do another fortress quite fast after the first one.

[JesusFreak]

Jiggly really only has one tough matchup and That's Marth. Even then I'm not sure I'g call him a counter. Roy does do pretty well against her, but I'd say it's about even or a bit in Jiggly's favor.

[Sintenal]

Sheik can beat Jiggly pretty bad. her bair out prioritizies everything jiggly has. Sheik can also out range Jiggly pretty well. Mrth has the same idea vs Jiggly. Although, Jiggly can WoP marth pretty well and she can pound rest combo marth pretty early

Fox can actually do pretty well vs Jiggly. jiggly only has SAS over fox. Fox is very good at killing vertically and jiggly is very light. Shine can also hurt jiggly, little bit not alot

Roy just seems to have reverse blazer, maybe there is more for Roy in this match up i dont know

[B-Run]

I Think Luigi gives Jiggs quite a few problems, cause he is one of the only characters that out prioritizes Jiggs WoP. even though Jiggs can manuever away after landing a hit, the Luigis i play just run right in and out prioritize the hit with a fair... very annoying, the only thing i have then is pound but against a luigi pound doesnt exactly string together well because hes too floaty to fall into another hit or rest.

[Umbreon]

well, fox can upsmash from shield. That's a HUGE benefit. jiggly can only take 4 or 5 at the most.

Fox can also shinespike jiggly real easy cause shine beats out anything jiggly can do during recovery. Just hop and bair till she's too low on jumps to bair you back. Then with her bair out of the way shinespike her easily. You might have to do it 3 or 4 times, but it's still very easy.

Fox should never get grabbed.

Roy can reverse blazer out of shield, as well as rapant forward air spamming. What else do you need?

Zelda kills her pretty bad as well.

There's only way that jiggly has no counters but no one else seems to play her that way. bleh.

[TiRune]

**remembers the time he drillkicked into rest a roy 4 times in a row** whahaha, roy's a great jiggly counter :rolleyes:

nah really, everything can beat a jiggles and jiggly can beat everything. I'd have to say that perhaps only marth and sheik have a tactical advantage over jiggly but what matters is that the jiggles practices against those matchups. If you practiced the matchups ALOT then their just as even as any other matchup -_-'