Fox's SHB

[PXTalon2000]

Ok, I need a verdict on the SHB. I'm getting mixed messages. I've heard a lot about how Fox needs it... For, like, Jigglypuff it totally makes sense, 'cuz how else are you gonna' do it. I've heard that SHB is what Fox needs to put other characters on the offense.
But then another circle of respectable Smash players (... Canadian Mike... Ken... Jarrod... et cetera) have told me that Fox's blaster is worthless.

Ok, I very much respect the playing ability of those who have told me it's worthless, but that's not how I play with Fox.
For my Fox, defensive players are kind of a pain, because, while Fox has an amazing offensive game, even the low tiers can win the priority wars. It seems, to me, easier for Fox to counter an aggressive style than a more precise defense. Thus, simply to adjust my opponents' styles... I SHB with Fox.

More opinions on this please?

[blackjoker]

how does fox SHB come in handy? flacos is good cuz his normal shooting is crap and slow, but foxes shoots alot faster on the ground and no too much lag

[the_suicide_fox]

You're absolutely right. There seems to be a division among Fox users on whether Fox's blaster is useful. And to be honest, it is in some ways and in others it isn't. By running away and SHBing long enough the opponent will get frustrated and go on the offensive. This mostly works against characters w/o a projectile or with a really crappy one (like Luigi or Kirby). Against characters with good projectiles, like Samus or Link, SHB should be used while evading. While fleeing do a turn around SHB, since a little % could always help. Fox's blaster shouldn't be used offensively in the way Falco's would because a smart opponent would just take the hits and smack you away.

[PXTalon2000]

Originally posted by the_suicide_fox
Fox's blaster shouldn't be used offensively in the way Falco's would because a smart opponent would just take the hits and smack you away.

I actually don't believe this entirely... SHB is like a float cancel for Peach... After you've started it, just watch your opponent and forget you're attacking... There is no lag at all. It's just like running at the opponent.
(Canadian) Mike was one of the people who said the SHB was bad for Fox, but I saw him SHB right next to someone who shielded (Ken I think) and immediately grab upon landing.
I get what you mean, though. Having no stun whatsoever makes it so that SHB approaches have properties completely unlike Falco's.

[FaTmAn2k20]

It's clearly not as good as Falco's SHBs, but there's really no reason NOT to use it. You might as well tack on a bit of damage here and there, because there's no real reason not to.

[Cronos_Rainbow]

It's pretty pointless unless you can move Fox fast enough IMO. Say for instance from afar...why would you go about SHB when you could just mash B? Lag? You get more shots stopping early then adding one SHB then you would if you were to SHB the whole time(providing they are far not just out of hit range). When you come to the closer game though there are many more issues...is the small damage worth possibly being hit? Is there something else better? Can I even SHB? I think the best bet for it is as a way of damaging the opponent while on the war path(by SHB with the dash jump), as a small dodge by SHB backwards (not the opposite direction, but as a way of SHB and moving slighty backwards, possibly out of a hits range) to follow with another attack. It's also good for hitting far campers set in an awkward to shoot position. Lastly, it's another good move to mix in as a way of revivng the damage other attacks can cause.
Sure it's not as good and useful as Falcos..especially for agression and defense lowering, though it's a far cry from useless. Who knows....that one SHB may be the difference between a KO and the opponent recovering.

[M3D]

I actually posed this question to Jv3x3 a while back because I noticed him SHB'ing in a match and didn't really see the point. He explained to me that Fox stays more mobile during the short-hopped version than he does while standing.

Essentially, you're blastering as your opponent is approaching or while they are playing defense to rack up some extra damage. But considering a dashing opponent, or some character with a quick aerial approach, one blaster can be the difference between eating a very damaging move and getting away scot-free. If you SHB, instead of just standing there, you're free to move much faster after the lazer shoots.

I've also found it lets me keep a Jiggly or Kirby or other floaty character honest as they approach. Jiggs can float just above the blaster as she approaches, but with a SHB I can hit several times in the process. And also in teams, I find I can SHB over my teammate and get some extra damage on our opponents.

In any case, you don't need to do this with Fox like you need to shine-spike to be good with him. But if you choose to implement it, it can add one more wrinkle to your game and give you an edge over certain opponents.

[the_suicide_fox]

PXTalon2000- That's assuming they are blocking. The shield stun of both Fox's and Falco's blaster are the same. I'm talking about doing it near somebody who won't block it. They might just try to attack you and therefore won't block it hit you instead.

BTW, it's called beam canceling. It is not at all like float canceling. The end result is the same, but they causes of them are much different.

It is good for mindgames though. Like they may think you are going to do a shuffle'd n-air but instead you blaster to grab. It's just risky though, because they may end up not blocking it.

[GanondorftheXXVI]

True that SHB gives you more mobility, but if the opponents have crappy projectiles and/or are far away, blaster spamming is better IMO. A really cheap fox with little skill would have a chance vs. a decent/good bowser if they just blaster spammed, ran away, blaster spammed, and so on.
I think the higher-level fox players get so accustomed to playing with speed that they never blaster spam, only SHB occasionally. This is not always good. I watched MoFo (Fox) vs. Cort (sheik) and there's a point in the match where MoFo lets Cort charge up sheik's needles, doing nothing, while he could have been blaster spamming and tacking on extra damage.

[josh15162003]

The only time I ever really use the laser is when I knock an opponent far enough off the stage that I can throw in about 3 or 4 laser shots and still have time to edgeguard. Just enough to piss them off since they can't do anything about it.

[Rebel581]

I think Fox's blaster is useless unless you're facing someone who's just standing there and not moving towards you or a camper so that they will attack you and put yourself in a more favorable position. Short-hopped kinda doesn't make sense since the blaster was made to do damage and it keeps the blaster from doing as much damage as it could do non-short hopped.

I don't really play Fox seriously though so I could just not know about all of it's uses (what's beam-cancelling?).

[PXTalon2000]

Originally posted by the_suicide_fox
PXTalon2000- That's assuming they are blocking. The shield stun of both Fox's and Falco's blaster are the same. I'm talking about doing it near somebody who won't block it. They might just try to attack you and therefore won't block it hit you instead.

It is good for mindgames though. Like they may think you are going to do a shuffle'd n-air but instead you blaster to grab. It's just risky though, because they may end up not blocking it.

I'm glad you brought this up... See... If you absolutely spam blaster... A person will be much less inclined to block... It becomes... They can't play defensively and evasively 'cuz they get shot. They can't turtle 'cuz they'll get grabbed. What they'll do is... Attack, right? I mean that's kind of their only choice.. You get a Fox who spams SHB and manages to pull it off while dodging... All you can really do is attack. Granted if you land an attack on Fox it'll be a lot better than that blasting that you've been taking, but if you whiff the attack (and Fox is certainly fast enough to make that happen), or if you attack slower than Fox does, you could get punished even more severely. That's kind of how I think the blaster whoring works.
Of course all this depends on the projectile arsenal of the opponent and stuff.

I don't think Fox should standing blaster in a singles matchup. The opponent will just come in by air. If you were shorthop blasting you could still hit them while they're coming in. The whole point of the blaster is to make the opponent attack you and try to punish you for it.

[the_suicide_fox]

Good point. It could be used as a "come get me" tactic, forcing them to go offensive because you will just sit there and SHB them. But I'm saying when in closer range with someone it's usually not the best idea since it doesn't stun it won't outprioritize an attack like a shuffle'd n-air would. Spamming lasers from afar is a great idea with Fox. Up close it's a lot more risky. You could however throw it in randomly to get a grab in here and there. But overall it should be used sparingly at medium to close range, depending on who you are playing.

[Glide]

I think the uses of the blaster at all could be summed up best by this little quote by the Allmighty Ken Himself:

"Fox does not come to Marth, Marth comes to Fox."

The blaster forces your opponent to come for you; it essentially is the anti-camper tool. Granted, there's not a whole lot of use for it outside of that, but that alone is an incredible tool.

[AWrulez]

Of course his blaster is useful. Whether short hopping it is necessary, that can be argued, but his blaster is useful.

You short hop it whenever you don't have that much space. Short hopping it is a lot safer, but it shoots slower.

You stand still and just spam it when you have enough room against a non-projectile (usually) character so that you would be able to put the gun away before you get hit. Use it at the start of matches, while the opponent is on the edge, recovering, or while he's running towards you with plenty of ground to cover.

However, since Fox puts his gun away much quicker than Falco does, and the animation isn't all that much slower than short hopping the blaster, some people don't find it necessary to short hop.
His blaster makes many characters go on the offensive against him. Blaster is definitely useful, while short hopping it can be argued.

[stilettotrap]

Eh. I SHB whenever I'm not doing something else. If I'm approaching and not in the opponent's attack range, there's really no reason not to SHB. If I'm dashing away, it doesn't slow me down at all to short hop and shoot the other way. There will always be situations in which there is a bit of distance between you and your opponent; why not do something productive while you're closing the gap?