Ganondorf vs. Link

[GanondorftheXXVI]

Okay, I just noticed Link can be a problem. I was playing against my friend's link, and I had a hard time getting past his projectiles.
This is not one of those "Good vs. Evil" bull**** threads. I want to know how SSBM Ganondorf can beat SSBM Link:mad:. I know Ganon overwhelms link in close range combat, but I had problems geting into close range.

What I want to know is:

How the **** do I get close? My friend took out a bomb, then kept throwing the boomerang at me. I tried to apporach with F-Air and then he would either throw the bomb or use Up B. And when I could get through, he simply rolled away:mad:. And in between bomb and boomerang throwings he would toss in some F-Smashes. So what the **** do I do? From this stand point, I see no way a very good ganondorf could beat a very good/cheap link (I'm not saying me and my friend are good, I am just inferring from my experience). I don't see how link was put in middle tier :mad:. With two extremely spammable projectiles, and more-than decent swordplay, he is **** to play with. He should be in the high tier replacing Mario :mad:. And take that from someone who hates the little *****.

Back on topic. What do I do to beat links? And yes, I read shin's guide already.

[sevenofcoins]

I suppose Link can be a bit of a problem. Try to shield reflect the boomerang, especially if he's just throwing it straight at you. Also learn to catch the bombs and throw them right back at him. That'll make him think twice about throwing them. Especially if you're coming in from above, and he chucks a bomb up, instead of airdodging or getting hit, catch it and throw it back, or hit him with dair. If you can get past his projectiles like that, the fight shouldn't be as much of a problem. Just try hard not to get knocked off the edge, it's tough to get back past an edgeguarding Link, with his up B and tilt down A.

[GanondorftheXXVI]

Thanks, seven... I thought about maybe catching the bombs. But I'm not used to air catching. Oh well, guess I'll bring that into my game.

[Jason_Ganon]

yeah I was playing jakes link and its really hard because if you jump through he will use his awsome sex kick but if you roll through he will grab you so all I did was just wait for him to make a mistake. I dont know why I lost though.

[windrage0]

Ok Lets get down to the facts. Ever heard of wave dashing? Well if you do you might want to use it to get out and in. The other one is the mind games(running back and forth towards him) and if you arn't easy with wavedashing you can do dash-dancing. Another is the side step when he is runnign at you(maybe the shield grab works also). Dash dancing doesnt work on comps though(at least i dont think it does). And Link is very vulnerable to combos so just be aggressive...and i mean aggresive. Hope that helps man.

[chesterr01]

Well, I'd say your mind games suck. <_<
But you're still a good kid! cheer up!

First, if you can't powershield, evade the boomerang. Let it fly over you, or jump over it.
Get it.
Catch the bombs, or evade it. Then you have to be inside of reach for an aerial. Ganondorf is imo a very aerial character. Evade the bomb and attack. or catch the bomb, throw it or drop item, and sock it to him.

Learn to fight intelligently.
Use your shield ;), abuse of the dair when you can. and use backfist to kill. G'luck.

[Falco-Lombardi]

What I does is i does a kick on the ground ( down b) I knocks him off his feet if if he's damage is high I smah up A. But if his damage is not high do the up b thing in the air.

[sevenofcoins]

Down B is fairly easy to get around for Link on the ground. It's better used as a spike. Link can parry the kick, hit you with boomerang, arrow, or bomb. He can even roll and smash. And even if he does get hit, if he's smart he'll DI out of the way of your upsmash or up B.

[Linkzrath]

-The Down+B is a good move to use here and there on the ground, but not very often unless you are spiking. It's a great surprise move, although if you use it too often or from too far, your opponent will see it coming and react.

-Of course, you can try to knock them off the edge with it from point blank, and as you fly off when they do, you can double jump (or Up+B if necessary) back for an edgehog. Link's horizontal distance is not very good, and he may miss the Hookshot, since you take the hit...and you can just Up B your way back.

[GanondorftheXXVI]

Thanks for the replies, guys, and yes, chesterr, my mind games do suck. In fact, they are close to nonexistent. No, they are negative mindgames. My technical precision is decent, not great, but I just play stupidly. Anyway, thanks for the help everybody. Maybe I was rushing in too often without looking for openings.

[Lord HDL]

Ganondorf’s best bet is to take advantage of his shield and grab plenty of times. Even in close combat, a smart Link player will make excellent use of his A A A, basically thwarting almost anything Ganondorf has, except grabs if you’re shielding. Also, if you’re close you can try shielding, jumping out of your shield with a forward, downward, or neutral aerial. Ganondorf seems to be able to "push" Link towards the corner of the stage well with shffl’d foward aerials, but I’d advise you to stay towards the center of the stage, because Link has many options to counter you and send you off of the stage instead, and you really don’t want to get knocked off, lol. If the Link knows what he’s doing, it’s basically like a death trap. Shffl’d forward aerials keep Link at bay, because even with those projectiles he’s going to eventually want to go up to you and finish you off, so you can keep him away with forward aerials and punish him with them if he gets too close. I’d definitely say try to grab him as many times as possible.

[DireVulcan]

That's rather wierd, because iv'e seen NO Link that can throw projectiles fast enough that I can't dodge them all.
Mind you, I also main Dorf.
Like before, catching bombs is a must.
Once you're inside just beware of his attack to your best ability, and that should set you straight.

[BigGman]

to get close to link you should get good with the light shield. i, generally, run toward him, he shoots a projectile, i use light shield. repeat. sooner or later, you'll get close. also, remember when you jump in at him, you don't have to attack. if you attack, he will hit you with a neutral A. if you don't attack, there is a good chance he won't hit you, and now your close. forward aerial is good, but the back aerial is really good against link. it's so much faster. i like to use that alot. other than that, you can chain grab him for massive damage.

[That Diablos Guy]

Originally posted by BigGman
to get close to link you should get good with the light shield. i, generally, run toward him, he shoots a projectile, i use light shield. repeat. sooner or later, you'll get close.

You will slide back if you use light shielding. The other options are better.

[Reesie Guy]

I also find Link quite annoying... His projectile doesn't worry me too much, you should worry about is spin attack. It does quite alot of damage and it could finish you off...

[chesterr01]

Pff, I've probably met the best Link in the world, and the spin attack is the least of my worries.
Against Ganondorf, Link can juggle him fairly good with the shffled nairs & dash attacks (but it has to connect, because it's punishable). Projectiles hinder Ganondorf's progression, but it isn't that much of a factor. If Link goes aerial a lot, Ganon is in trouble. Only thing the only aerial for Link that is problematic is the down air. He has to catch Ganon off guard to land it, or chain it after a bomb or a down throw at high percentages. Otherwise, it blows. My two cents.

[The Tip Masta]

Hit forward-b to do a gerudo dragon punch thingy...It's purple.

[Thomas Tipman]

ganons thunder punch is great for boomerangs and if you cant catch bombs good yet try blocking them and waiting for them to fall down to catch them if you cant time the catch well, also wd sheild grabs are good if the link you play like kicking you away when you get close with a spin attackif your not in range to shield grab d+tilt, f+tilt or diagonal up+tilt work well (use up+air if he knocks up high) stay under him and WD backwards before he gets close to hitting the floor (dont wanna get hit with a bomb or d+air) and d+tilt. dont use this to much though or you will have to dodge a bomb thrown foward and will have to choose to roll away which will leave you at square 1, roll in and CC a up+b (take some damage but your in his face), or dodge and hope the blade misses.

[Zanguzen]

Weren't the combos mentioned in Shin's guide based on opponents with Link's weight? I guess dodge projectiles, maybe waveshield if link is staying back, grab bombs, and when ure in range- use one of the combos in the guide. I know for a fact that the gerudo dragon to gerudo dragon to dark dive works (i.e. - forward b, forward b, up b).

[TestRider]

Pff, I've probably met the best Link in the world

Hum Chet, If I can beat Gino 4 times out of 4 matches, he certainly doesn't have the best Link in the world. Well that or I really really rule. I'd prefer the later :P

[chesterr01]

Ok, let me rephrase that. He probably has one of the best Links in the world. You are good, but still, don't wangsturbate because of that. :p Hey, imo, we would beat Aniki's Link, still, it's very good. Why? cause link is sub-par.

[Lord HDL]

Originally posted by chesterr01
Ok, let me rephrase that. He probably has one of the best Links in the world. You are good, but still, don't wangsturbate because of that. :p Hey, imo, we would beat Aniki's Link, still, it's very good. Why? cause link is sub-par.

I haven’t even heard of this Gino person. Then again, who exactly has heard of Zarelid or myself? Most people look towards Germ and Kubuu only and fail to recognize the others. But if you think Link is sub-par, you’ve yet to see what a Link player is really all about, and I’m not talking about the average "grunt." >:/ :demon:

[JesusFreak]

Aniki!!!

DONE!!!

[chesterr01]

But if you think Link is sub-par, you’ve yet to see what a Link player is really all about, and I’m not talking about the average "grunt."

Well I definitely cannot agree with that. I've seen everything Link players have to give. I'm just saying that Link can't give out enough to.. how should I say that.. fare equally with what other chars can chuck out of their bags. Of course, you can take Link to another level (like you could probably beat a fully tuned skyline with a Hachi-Go in Initial D), but at some point, it just isn't enough. I feel like this post isn't complete, but meh..

[Lord HDL]

Originally posted by chesterr01
Well I definitely cannot agree with that. I've seen everything Link players have to give. I'm just saying that Link can't give out enough to.. how should I say that.. fare equally with what other chars can chuck out of their bags. Of course, you can take Link to another level (like you could probably beat a fully tuned skyline with a Hachi-Go in Initial D), but at some point, it just isn't enough. I feel like this post isn't complete, but meh..

I doubt you’ve seen everything Link players can muster. Not even Germ, Aniki, or myself have become "perfect" with Link; we are still improving. You’ve probably just seen what regular Link players have been able to do, and maybe some good ones, but not elite (videos don’t count since they don’t capture things entirely). It may be a lot harder to get such high results with Link, but it is definitely possible. I don’t intend to make this a thread focused on Link since this is supposed to be about Ganondorf, but just because he has a fight to put up against Sheik and Fox (anyone else isn’t much trouble, and Link actually does very well against Fox if you understand certain things), it doesn’t make him "sub-par." No offense, but you really shouldn’t be degrading characters you don’t have full understanding of. Link especially, since he’s one of the hardest if not the hardest characters to understand. I urge people to forget the tier list; it may give a decent understanding of the current metagame, but we still have yet to see what people can do.

My apologies for changing the topic at hand.

[VilNess]

Originally posted by Lord HDL
I urge people to forget the tier list; it may give a decent understanding of the current metagame, but we still have yet to see what people can do.



This has to be one of the best lines I´ve read in SWF and I´m not even joking.

[chesterr01]

Originally posted by Lord HDL
I doubt you’ve seen everything Link players can muster. Not even Germ, Aniki, or myself have become "perfect" with Link; we are still improving. You’ve probably just seen what regular Link players have been able to do, and maybe some good ones, but not elite. No offense, but you really shouldn’t be degrading characters you don’t have full understanding of. Link especially, since he’s one of the hardest if not the hardest characters to understand.

Well, imo, the only thing that could help improve the best Links in the world is a new approach towards projectiles. Anyway, it's normal that Germ, Aniki or "yourself" have not perfected Link : "nobody" can attain perfection. And how could you say that I've probably only seen regular Link players? The 2nd or 3rd best player in Quebec is a Link player. 3 out of the top 5 (including me) can play competition level Links. In other words, with all my respects, you cannot permit yourself to judge other people without valuable backup.

I do agree that Link is hard to understand, but he is not the hardest. I think that spot goes to chars like Mewt, Yoshi and Ness imo. Link is hard to play with, I definitely agree, but still...
Saying that Link is sub-par is but reality, not an insult to anyone, and don't worry, I'm not talking about the tier list, I couldn't care less about it. I encourage you to answer me, but I don't agree that we should talk about the thread indeed. I don't have anything to add though.

[VilNess]

Originally posted by chesterr01

I do agree that Link is hard to understand, but he is not the hardest. I think that spot goes to chars like Mewt, Yoshi and Ness imo.

Well once you got Wavedashing and Djc:ing down with these chars you´ve quite far.
I would still say Link is more complex.
Or maybe I´ve played too much with Ness... dunno...
Samus seems to require quite much understanding too, with her weird aerials and projectiles +recovery and such...
This is IMO too...

[Lord HDL]

One thing I have to say about Link (and this goes especially for his projectiles) is that once you get a good feel and skill level with Link, you feel as if there isn’t that much more to understand. But once you start mastering him and getting better and better you begin to understand the complexity of it all, something you don’t see unless you really get Link to a far level, which few people have done.

And chester I would answer you, but it’s best not to change the topic of the thread to a discussion of Link.

I do have to say though that I found it quite amusing that you put the word "yourself" in quotes. I don’t blame you since I’m not very known as an elite Link player, but sometimes people are overlooked and placed in the shadows of those who are famous. As a matter of fact I know a Ganondorf player like that. Ah the stealth of it all... *insert evil laughter here*

[Greta_the_Great]

Originally posted by Lord HDL
I haven’t even heard of this Gino person. Then again, who exactly has heard of Zarelid or myself? Most people look towards Germ and Kubuu only and fail to recognize the others. But if you think Link is sub-par, you’ve yet to see what a Link player is really all about, and I’m not talking about the average "grunt." >:/ :demon:

I just play, seems to work for me. I learned how to play link by watching SS4Ricky. I'm just wondering why everyone thinks that they can designate who's "this good" with a certain character?

[Lord HDL]

Originally posted by Greta_the_Great
I'm just wondering why everyone thinks that they can designate who's "this good" with a certain character?

Wait, what? lol. Could you explain that because I’m not entirely sure what you mean (seems it could mean more than one thing).

[Greta_the_Great]

something you don’t see unless you really get Link to a far level, which few people have done.
I don’t blame you since I’m not very known as an elite Link player
I love it how people (not saying just you, but people in general) can say who's gotten "this good" with a certain character.
sometimes people are overlooked and placed in the shadows of those who are famous
So true, it's like trying to say a particular band is awesome, when there's so many underground ones unheard of. Someone needs to explain how people can talk :confused:

[BigDaddyFalcon]

Greta is right, SS4Ricky is the best link that i have ever, e-e-e-e-e-ever seen. (thank you Chris Jericho).

I'd say in Link vs Ganon, mostly depends on the stage. If it's a stage that is more close quarters Ganon has the advantage, but on bigger stages, if the Link player isn't being dumb, he can just projectile the Ganon to death. No amount of shields and jabs and tilts will keep off the projectiles forever because a good Link will take the second you give him when you try to take out his projectile and punish you with a grab or a down air. Ganon does not work well with projectiles, you can reduce their effectiveness by using tilts and jabs sometimes but you're defense is gonna break down before theirs. You have to be on the offensive the whole time, that's the best way to get away from projectiles.

The only way I beat Ricky really is if it's a nice stage for Ganon, (Yoshi's story or battlefield would be ideal) or if he's just being stupid. All in all, Link vs Ganon is actually pretty even though, Ricky's just a smidge better than me, that's the big difference.

[PXTalon2000]

From what I've seen of Ganondorf vs. Link, Ganons tend to not fight efficiently enough. Sure you could power shield the boomerang, but if you know it's going to be a boomerang, just downB right through it (know that downB beats uncharged arrow and boomerang). Be sure to space so that it hits during the lag. It's also handy if you know the timing and spacing for forward B to go through projectiles.
WD powershield WD punish = delicious when you pull it off.

Dash attack also has some considerable rewards against projectiles where other courses of action would be unprofitable. Catch bombs in the air, then make sure you land safely (which could mean taking flight to a platform, air dodging with bomb coverage, WD, landing to a roll, dropping or immediately throwing the bomb, getting in that surprise up or forward B even.. whatever is appropriate). There is no formula for dealing with bombs, but most often catching them in air with Z leaves you with the most options. If you can drop a bomb in Link's face, feel free to use your forward B or something to take advantage of the awkwardness.

As far as doing stuff after shielding goes (or any counterprojectile measures that do not leave you with a good frame advantage), you could WD or jump out of the shield; but create a variety with your spacings. Moving backwards may seem unproductive, but it's not like going in all the time is a good idea. The real key to managing Link's projectiles is to be as keenly aware of spacing options as the Link; not to just be aggressive (an aggressive Ganon will lose to a Link who stresses the defensive priority of his own aerial game).

Another thing I mean by efficiency. Ganons are used to using the lightning punch to disrupt shield retaliation; if Ganon expects a roll or a spin attack, he should just roll away, then come back with a WD fsmash or a dair-upsmash combo or some *real* punishment. If you just use the lightning punch, then why not try the hookshot? 70%+ damage reward... Potentially level a whole stock in the course of a juggle? And look for openings for the fsmash.

I used to think that Link's projectiles were his advantage in this matchup, but I'm rather certain now it's his juggling prowess and air game that do this matchup. Ganon has plenty enough to punish Link's projectile game (except those bombs are still quite pesky).

Remember that Link is not impossible to edgeguard... You just have to go really far out there. Pre-empt the hookshot. Go under his boomerang coverage and bair or uair. Do anything to force him to attempt the stage while you are clinging to the ledge, then grab him while he's vulnerable and bair him off the stage (even if he DI's the throw forward).

Other important strategies to take against a Link. Break his shield (bair, calculating your in-air stalling, and fsmash with charge are crucial)! If Link's stance is too defensive, he will be vulnerable to some shield damage (learn to aim dair so that it goes under the shield, also).
And experiment with Ganon's roll (What? roll? ROLL? Yeah..). I once made a conscious decision to roll more against Link and saw nothing but unanimous profit as long as I wasn't dumb about it.

::chuckles:: SS4Ricky has the best Fox I've seen. (Shh! Secret)
And by the way, it is my opinion that Link is a Ganon counter. Think I'll Ganon Ricky next time I play 'im, though.

[Mew2Matteo]

Wow, I'm not reading all that, but it seems like it'll help you get into the backroom :laugh:

reverse uair off the stage when link is trying to come back.

that = he's done son :D

[Thomas Tipman]

M2M said it right, thats all you need. reverse uair 2 twice usually then the 3rd uair should hit and land an instant edge hog.

[Mew2Matteo]

He called me M2M....
*memories*

[PXTalon2000]

Originally posted by Mew2Matteo
Wow, I'm not reading all that, but it seems like it'll help you get into the backroom :laugh:


::shakes head:: Dunno about that.

[Thomas Tipman]

pxt: it was definetly a sarcastic remark

ganon vs link is easy, link can get chain grabbed and he (with reverse uairs) edge guarded easy. his projectiles are either slapped by he hand, PSed, or caught and thrown back at him. he's not the fastest char in the game in attacks or mobility. i think people get caught up catching and dodging projectiles that it slows them down in getting close to link so heres what i find helpful.

1.catch a bomb
2. throw it either from the ground or air (to close a choice where he can exit)
3.rush threw the opening and timing his evasive tactics should be easy

[ANTX]

i've been watching some pretty good people recently, (like vidjo and dark) and i've come to realize that they care less about projectiles hitting them, and more about ramming their knee or butt (CF or peach) down their opponent's throat. against a proj. spamming link, i just run up to them, get hit with a few things, then begin wailing on them. ganon likes wailing.