Mistar Game and Watch v.v;

[PXTalon2000]

Most importantly, I must request that Mr. P. A. Awdbawl not attempt to contribute to this thread.

My brother picked him up a while ago, and has recently gotten good with him. My brother's main is C.F. and I can usually beat his C.F. with relative ease as long as I avoid the knee and the grab.

Game and Watch is hardddd... ::sob:: His hitboxes protect him and last foreeeever. Pichu has *no* moves to outrange him, and though G&W has plenty of windup lag to exploit (psht, with what?), winddown lag is a different story.
He has a good crouch cancel, but I've sorta' learned how to avoid that. My real pains are dair (no shieldcountering... No outranging it horizontally, L-cancels with perfect cover), fair (keep on getting knicked by that weak part at the end), parachute (thing is freaking strong!), and dtilt (v.v; This move is horrible for Pichu). But bair and ftilt can themselves be problematic. I'm about convinced that you cannot sidestep anything G&W has besides the grab. (which is OK 'cuz I don't sidestep unless I haf'tu')

Most importantly, I must request that Mr. P. A. Awdbawl not attempt to contribute to this thread.

I'm winning the match pretty consistently, but that's only 'cuz I'm a better player than he is, like, by far, I think. What happens is I have to very repeatedly force him to attack, and then hop in *before* he attacks. 'cuz once the attack's out it's too late; there's barely any room.. After I attack, if I'm aware of a break in G&W, I'll go for something else like an uair into another aerial. It seems it's easier for him to find holes in my dodging than for me to find holes in his offense.
If I catch him off guard, I can get a quick utilt chain in into an aerial, maybe another one; I'm thinking I should look for that but my brother's pretty quick on the CCC. Oughta' test out when that stops working. XP

I'm not sure how the best way to get my kills in is. Sometimes I land a lucky fsmash, then I jump out and dair. Sometimes I land a lucky upsmash, but that doesn't happen to often. And sometimes I land a dair, then edgeguard with either fsmash or dair. I think dair was my best but he started getting used to it and I started whiffing it and needing to change plans.
v.v; Sometimes it takes so long that even nair scores me a kill.

Basically I'm having to outsmart him for every hit and I'm not getting much out of what I gain. And when I mess up it's a good dtilt or even a parachute.

Most importantly, I must request that Mr. P. A. Awdbawl not attempt to contribute to this thread, or respond in any way.

EDIT: Some more stuff I didn't explain. The reason I said the winddown lag isn't there for G&W... Is simply because of the way my brother plays him. When you jump with Game and Watch's aerials you recover perfectly. He likes the dair more than the fair or bair. He uses shuffled fairs intelligently; and that's where I scored my hits before he got used to it.

[pictish freak]

GW, eh?

Yeah, not being a fast faller means Pichu can't do a lot of nasty things to GW...

By the looks of things, GW has everything stitched up nicely to stop Pichu getting opens... which probably means it's worth doing things you shouldn't normally do to get in hits.

Like, do you use thunder jolt at all? Even at lower damage, it might be worth it... If you can find a way to use it so that it can hit him like after the D-air and stuff, consistantly, it'll perhaps make him think twice about it... if you can just find a way to punish these current approaches with the projectile, he might leave holes as he tries to work a way around the thunder jolt. Then it's just a case of 'Your move, his counter, your counter to his counter, and his counter to your counter and your first move' >.> Sorta.

The thunder jolt is certainly something to try, though. Full jump fast fall it against suspected aerial approaches. It really screws over a lot of them. If he rushes in on the ground, he'll be stopped. Shuffled aerial? Stopped. Full/Double jump to clear the jolt? Far to slow and punishable by the time he gets out an aerial.

About the CC D-tilts, is this punishing aerials? If it is, N-air/B-air can still be used, as long as you can do it right. The thing is, attack but don't fast fall it immediately... the idea is to hit and land on the opposite side of GW. I doubt he'll want to CCC with the D-smash or something. Probably easiest to do with B-air, since using the C-stick means you don't have to stop pushing forward and can get full momentum... but N-air does have less lag for getting away fast. Meh, just play around with that if you don't already.

Never attack from above. You'll eat parachute or U-tilt, for sure.

I haven't had a lot of experience against GW with Pichu, so I can't help out other than just what I think might work by what works on most characters...

Hmm, one last though that's just sorta hit me before I post... (though most of this might be crap, I'm kinda just awake >.>) Could you avoid his D-airs with a WD back into F-smash? If you can punish like THAT You wont be seeing the D-air so much, I'm sure.

[yomominacan]

as a game and watch player, I may be able to add a bit.
gw's dtilf clanks with a lot of stuff, and would shutdown any dashing attacks or otherwise. as far as the jolt, Ive never played any good pichus (or pika's) but what I would do would be jump over and meet picku with a fair, nair, dair, or bair. all of those attacks have serious priority, and duration. they appear to have huge wind down lag, but the fact of the matter is they are out there a long time. meeting pichu in the air with an arial would be a good defensive option for gw. bair has huge range, and juggles so it could cause a lot of problems for pichu. fsmash also cancels out many projectiles and has huge duration, so pichu would have to come in from above in the situation you described.


wding back from dair is an option, but keep in mind dair hits again with gw lands so that could make trouble. lcancelled dairs combo really well into dtilt or fsmash at low percents.


gw's movement speed isnt all that slow, and his main disadvantage is he weight. he also is really light, and has great recovery. Try killing him off the top obviously.

Not many people are familiar with gw's moveset and style, so experiment, or ask in gw forum.

His biggest problem is fighting ranged characters, which pichu is not, so I would see this one as an easy match for the gw player.

what you think pictish?

[pictish freak]

ahh, good point. The duration and priority of GW's aerials may null the jolt entirely >.< bah.

I'm not entirely sure how to handle this match then.. I've played good GW's before, but never with Pichu... hmm...

Sory I can't be of more help.. it's just a match up I have no experience in..

[Neophos]

G&W catches t3h jolts in teh bucket!!! and does liek, 180%!!!!!



or maybe not....havent tried=/

G&W can use a instant KO on Pichu. but a Picuh with Teh GOOGLES!! will pwn him....








right??

[pictish freak]

The googles do nothing.

Anyways, GW doesn't bucket the jolts for long once he finds out he eats a JC'd upsmash on the lag every time.

[PXTalon2000]

Actually, Pictish, you're correct. The jolt's really nice. By nature G&W must be hesitant to shield, since G&W's shield sucks. G&W's aerials can eat through the jolt and still hit Pichu; usually isn't the case, though, since they come out slowly.

Now that I am a... sorta' experienced tourney player... I'm starting to realize that my brother is actually kinda' *good*! I can read him like a book, but he does what he can. (That's a bad analogy, though, since I can't read books #_#() )

Bucket won't always get G&W punished; it's hard to tell. I think G&W can WD bucket safely unless Pichu approaches with jolt. I'd wager that G&W could get a bucket full if he's clever enough, which'll probably mean instant kill for Pichu if by some miracle he'd manage to hit (If dtilt hits in air it combos into dash shorthop bucket if I'm not mistaken). But G&W'd have to pull it off in one stock for it to be effective.
He might just bucket to discourage jolts from Pichu.

Just came from a mid-to-bottom tier tourney; got to play a little Pichu, but didn't use Pichu as a main (Hih, sorry #_#() ). Oth'wise maybe I'da' had a better recollection of this matchup.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Pictish, you're horribly wrong. The goggles are the only source of Pichu's power. Without the goggles Pichu whithers and dies like a hip hop girl band. Man, I thought you knew stuff about this game. :rolleyes:

[Neophos]

pictish, realise tha the googles pwn, or i send you down the abyss of self delusion to Awdbawl, for you to spend the rest of your life there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




just kidding, you know i only stalk you in a friendly way=P

[Taj278]

Googles do nothing, naked Pichu is the sexiest.

Anyway, Pichu Ko's G&W with no DI when he's at 66% with up smash on FD, so that is very nice, but Pichu has very vew reliable combos that do much damage, and has to rely on solely on constant shffls or hit and run shffls. If you're lucky you can combo 2 shffl'd nairs together, not sure about 3 unless he DI's the wrong way.

G&W is the better character, but his shield is a huge weakness making G&W only a threat if he is good at keeping the pressure on you instead of him. G&W is pretty light too. Pichu's fsmash eats through his shield pretty badly if he is ever close enough for you to use. G&W should be exploiting every higher priority attack and range attack that he has and combo into parachute.

Don't worry too much about G&W CCing, he's tied for second lightest in the game. It's only worth it on a Fox/Falco that messes up and turning it into an 60%+ combo.

Pichu's Thunder Jolt should work if you jump with it and he's not f-airing you at the same time. With G&W's poor shield he is forced into the air or just taking the blow, because it might be worth it for the 3rd catch. If he does shield there just might be enough time to do a fsmash to punish, but I'm not 100% sure.

Me being one of 2 G&W players in AZ, and not actually having any G&W competition at all I don't know exactly how I would fight one. I'm just assuming it was mine. :D Shout out to Dante Lazarus!!!

In a tournament I would punish that mistake with Black Marth's sword flying up your 2D a$$.

G&W does have the advantage with laggy high priority attacks, decent l cancel, with good knock back to make sure to add a good 1-4% every time Pichu comes back.

Like every match it depends on the player.

Yeah... Mewtwo is a better choice though.

gg hf dd k thx bye :rotfl:

[yomominacan]

I actually really like Gw's cc. It has saved me many times, and his dtilt has awesome range, priority, and speed. I eats up many characters, and I would assume pichu too.

[Taj278]

Yeah its a good cc at low% but he can't really cc for long.

I agree, D-tilt is fantastic :)

Pichu isn't a fast faller though , so he can't be comboed as easily by it, but it puts Pichu in the air and G&W dominates Pichu there.

Pichu and G&W are not characters that should be trading hits though, IMO. Even though it is more beneficial to G&W in this case to trade hits.

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Originally posted by Taj278
Yeah its a good cc at low% but he can't really cc for long.

I agree, D-tilt is fantastic :)

Pichu isn't a fast faller though , so he can't be comboed as easily by it, but it puts Pichu in the air and G&W dominates Pichu there.

Pichu and G&W are not characters that should be trading hits though, IMO. Even though it is more beneficial to G&W in this case to trade hits.

At first, I was wondering why G&W was on the Pichu/Pika thread, but now I understand better. Though Pichu's not a fast faller, it doesn't mean he's pwned in the game by G&W. I'm also not sure if G&W should be trading hits at all. After all his Judgement has been known to give him 12% damage. Fortunately for him though, it's only a 1-in-9 shot. But it's not worth the risk. Next, with Pichu's speed taken into account, he would be able to get past the slow hitboxes of G&W, with enough lee-way to combo in and escape if necessary. The only threat to Pichu is the D-tilt. Bypass that and G&W is defeated.

Stating the truth,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

[jrta]

I am not surprised that you would be confused by this thread. Anyhow, you have again ignored parts of the posts AND you have introduced that element of randomness that we have all come to dread. Why are you bringing up this whole forward-b 12% damage garbage? No one ever uses that in a real match. Down tilt is watch's only advantage? Did you just ignore everything else? And then you use that same line of reasoning, with pichu's <insert some statistic here>, you can win past <insert incorrect analysis here>.

[Taj278]

um... wtf, I didn't say that G&W pwns Pichu...

I said that G&W's air game is better than Pichu's, and I said that G&W was in a better position to trade hits in this one particular scenario than Pichu... ****, you even quoted that part.

There's something wrong with you. Yeah I think there's something wrong with you. You should just quit life right now.

I can find out where you live. No one will care if you mysteriously got shot in the face.

[pictish freak]

Originally posted by PXTalon2000
Most importantly, I must request that Mr. P. A. Awdbawl not attempt to contribute to this thread.

Most importantly, I must request that Mr. P. A. Awdbawl not attempt to contribute to this thread.

Most importantly, I must request that Mr. P. A. Awdbawl not attempt to contribute to this thread, or respond in any way.

Ok awdbawl, HOW did you MISS THIS?!

Look: He said he didn't wnat your reply, and that's the OJLY reason I'm not ripping apart your current post. You're idiocy ruins every thread it touches, so don't spread your crap to here.

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Another thing of G&W that Pichu has to worry about is the Oil Spill. Fortunately, you can avoid that by not Jolting. This also cuts the shocks down, and focuses on the close range game. DJC G&W's D-tilt and Pichu stands a chance to win.

Staying in the game,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

[jrta]

Another thing of G&W that Pichu has to worry about is the Oil Spill.
No he doesn't.
Fortunately, you can avoid that by not Jolting. This also cuts the shocks down, and focuses on the close range game.
Well... not really. You should still jolt, as the bucket has lag. And you really shouldn't be focusing on a close range game, you want to be in hitting range for as short amounts of time as possible.
DJC G&W's D-tilt and Pichu stands a chance to win.
DJC? Umm... You used this term incorrectly in TWO different ways. I'm impressed. First off, you don't DJC someone elses attack. Second, Pichu can't DJC. A typical response where you pick some random term you saw but didn't read about and put it in your post to try to seem knowledgable or something.

Staying in the game,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl
You were never in it.

[pictish freak]

DJC G&W's D-tilt and Pichu stands a chance to win.
AHAHAHAHA! XD

L. M. A. O.

Oh, man, that's too good... hehehe... Ok, Awdbawl, explain how you DJC with Pichu, or better yet, how you're supposed to DJC someone ELSE's attack

Ahh... Awdbawl, I love it when you post something utterly ignorant, so utterly stupid that it's just funny

[Neophos]

NOTE THAT I DONT DEFEND AWDBAWL!!!!


Yoshi should be able to DJC attacks...in a way...or something....

NOTE THAT I DONT DEFEND AWDBAWL!!!!

[pictish freak]

No, that's a different thing.

You can DJC Yoshi's attacks, but it's YOSHI who DJC's them, not you.

The way Awdbawl posted, it's like he said Pichu should DJC GW's attacks.

Funneh.

[PXTalon2000]

To Mr. P.A. Awdbawl.

Please stop posting in my thread, Awdbawl.

Remember, I did request that you leave my thread alone at the very beginning

Please stop posting in my thread, Awdbawl.

I know more about fighting Game and Watch than you do. I know more about Pichu than you do. I know more about Smash than you do. I don't need your help; I don't wish to ever again read anything you attempt to produce. I want to hear the advice of Smashers I respect.

Please stop posting in my thread, Awdbawl.

Do not even attempt to explain how Pichu can "DJC" someone else's attack, let alone anything. You obviously don't know what DJC is.

Please stop posting in my thread, Awdbawl. Please bow out and do not even attempt to reply to this or any other post in this thread.

EDIT:
I just realized that Awdbawl ignores everyone, including myself. This is a request of my fellow SWFers.
Do not acknowledge anything he produces here; just pretend he's not posting. I don't want this thread wasted on him. I'm afraid this is the only way.

[pictish freak]

Ok PXT. I can see you don't want this thread ruined, so yeah ^^ I'll happily ignore him if everyone else does the same.

So, do you need any more specific help on GW? the easiest help to give is when you ask a specific question ^^ (that's why FAQ writing is so **** hard >.>)

[PXTalon2000]

At the moment.. Can't think of anything. Haven't played in a while; moving in today. I might send you a PM about somethin'.. su uhh.. check y'box..

[TWP]

I'll ignore him PXT, and I will happily give my limited Pichu and Geeduby advice that I can. Because you obviously want help and don't want this to becoem an awdbawl spam-fest.

I agree with Pictish that you should probably ask more specific questions. I'll be happy to try and help.

EDIT : Does Pichu really have to worry about the d-tilt if he has time to get his shield up? I mean he is so small that a Z-shield will easily cover his body and push him far away for another one. Is this thinking right or am I completely wrong ?

[pictish freak]

Even shielding ownt help much, surely...

D-tilt can be started so fast, that it could be done repeatedly without letting up. I think... that'd make escape rather hard.. mind you, there might be a jumping gap.. but if he CC's an aerial you're probably eating D-tilt if you don't aerial through him to the other side.

[Neophos]

a question..

isnt one of pichus...well, he dont really approach, he more of approaches, then run like a sissy girl....


well, one of Pichus best approaches, isnt that a shuffled nair??

because then the d tilt cant hit....rigtht?

[pictish freak]

Well, Pichu can mainly approach on an opponents mistake, or lag, or just after avoiding an attack. That's the thing, it's really really hard to describe well how I get in with Pichu...

Blah.

But N-air could be CC'd to D-tilt, just not if you use it in a way to land on the other side of the oponent... works well enough.

[Taj278]

Originally posted by TWP


EDIT : Does Pichu really have to worry about the d-tilt if he has time to get his shield up? I mean he is so small that a Z-shield will easily cover his body and push him far away for another one. Is this thinking right or am I completely wrong ?

Much like Marth and Roy's Downtilt, G&W can cancel the remaining lag at whatever frame, and do another d-tilt, jump, WD or whatever. Which makes Pichu have less options than G&W.

If you Z shield it, there is more lag than a full shield, so G&W should have time to actually follow you very closely, enabling G&W to control the pace if you take that kind of defensive stance.

I'm not necessarily saying that jumping wouldn't work, but if the G&W knows what he's doing, he should have control of the match.

Example: If Pichu shields and wds back out of shield, G&W WDs with you out of dtilt since his has more distance and is just as quick, from there he can do another dtilt, this time you jump or shffl nair, from there he can do a full jump f-air or shffl'd f-air. Purely situational, but G&W still can keep Pichu on his/her toes most of the match.

Pichu can approach, sorta like Pictish says, its more of a feeling. You have to wait for the opening. Its harder to do against chars with wide hitboxes like Marth, but it is basically attacking at that one moment, then staying in as long as you can before the oppenent can retaliate. If you can understand that... =/

I still stick to my opinion that CCing is the least of Pichu's problems. Neither side *wants* to trade hits, even though G&W gets the benefit of more damage and better set ups, it just doesn't last long and it can mean disaster if he misses and Pichu Shffls n-airs past G&W to a f-smash through his pathetic shield.

Gotta becareful of doing those shffl'd nairs with Pichu though, might eat a short hopped nair from G&W instead. :)

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Originally posted by Taj278
I still stick to my opinion that CCing is the least of Pichu's problems. Neither side *wants* to trade hits, even though G&W gets the benefit of more damage and better set ups, it just doesn't last long and it can mean disaster if he misses and Pichu Shffls n-airs past G&W to a f-smash through his pathetic shield.

Gotta becareful of doing those shffl'd nairs with Pichu though, might eat a short hopped nair from G&W instead. :)

By whom are you referring to CCing as a problem, G-dubbayu or the 'Chu? Are you saying that CC'ing isn't effective to Pichu or isn't effective to Game&Watch?

Asking a question,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

[Qwester]

CCing isn't an very good option for either characters, they are both very light and as Taj said, don't want to trade hits.

[jrta]

By whom are you referring to CCing as a problem, G-dubbayu or the 'Chu? Are you saying that CC'ing isn't effective to Pichu or isn't effective to Game&Watch?
They have been talking about G&W CCing Pichu's aerials for an entire page. What have you been reading?

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Originally posted by jrta
They have been talking about G&W CCing Pichu's aerials for an entire page. What have you been reading?

Oh, okay. I thought that they were referring to PICHU CC'ing G-dubbayu's moves. Hard to tell with these guys, say one thing- mean another. In any case, G-dubbayu wouldn't need to CC any of the 'Chu's moves. He could buffer them with Judgement and also counter with the Parachute.

Adding new stuff again,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

[yoshmaster5]

Awdbawl...

LEAVE NOW.

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Originally posted by yoshmaster5
Awdbawl...

LEAVE NOW.

My next question is how can you avoid a D-air-A G-dubbayu junkie, who manages to get lucky with a Judgement now and then?

Asking a question,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

[alexfilcher]

Mr. G&W
is one of the hardest char to call
the whole 2d of him makes his moves come out to fast

but he sux pika can make it so he never gets a move off
so why worry?