CounterPicks to Ness?

[NessOnett]

I am just wondering, are there any characters that so far seem to have an inherent advantage to Ness, any that he just can't seem to consistently beat when in the hands of a good user? Personally, my friend uses(among other characters) Sonic. I can own him whenever he uses his other "mains," and i can 3-stock(out of 3) his Sonic when i use any of my other regulars. But my Ness seems to be going toe-to-toe only winning slightly over 50% of the time. I am a far better player than him, so even this record is alarmingly abysmal for me. Anyone else having problems with Sonic or other specific characters?(Or if you have anti-Sonic advice, that could never hurt)

[annoying1359]

No, there are no characters that have any advantage over Ness whatsoever.

^_^

[Ademisk]

Horrible lies. Marth naturally destroys Ness. Always has, probably always will. Ness is bad against G&W, and everyone is bad against Snake. Sonic...not so much. I'll give my usual advice, abuse fair better.

[Kiki52]

Is Lucas a good counter pick for Ness?

Interesting story. My cousin who is extremely good at Brawl compared to me, I played online with him as Lucas and I was Ness. I was the closest in terms of winning against him when I was Ness and he was Lucas. It was actually a close fight and I think I would have done better if it wasn't for the lag. He was just too good when he used Ike or some other character. I found out I was both good with Ness and I also found out that I surprisingly was good with Kirby compared to other characters despite not ever having played a Kirby game.

Do you think Lucas is a good counter pick to Ness? I found Ness has a harder time against Snake or Sonic, if anything Lucas is easier to beat with Ness than fighting others. I found myself beating Captain Falcon rather easy with Ness. I also find Ness is good at killing Ike too, but if an Ike player beats Ness it's just due to superior skill on the player's side not the character himself.

[Ademisk]

If anything, Ness is a counter to Lucas.

[Nintenbro]

Yea, I agree with the dude above. Marth shatters Ness. The only person I have real trouble as Ness is a good G&W.

[Ademisk]

That's because G&W is too freaking good right now. He rapes shields and then kills you with fsmash at like 60%. Sooooo gay.

[Nintenbro]

He rapes ANYTHING. His neutral a racks up damage too fast! And he basically breaths spikes.

[Ademisk]

Ness's spike is better, hardy har har.

And he wouldn't be so good if not for the fact that his bair almost can't be shielded.

[Duggish]

Ness > Lucas.

Especially in the SSE.



I seem to have the roughest time against Marth...that range is just killer, combined with the speed...

[csir]

Lol i just played a guy who considers himself one of the "best" marth player And I beat him in a 3 stock match and I only used one life..

For me I have a hard time beating Luigi for some reason

[Ademisk]

People who consider themselves the best are usually the worst.

[AdmantNESS]

I played a Marth; 15 stock on FD. With appropriate shielding and yoyoing/aerialing/dashatking/spotdodging/mid-airdodging/down-backthrows, I beat him.

For every 2-3 lives I took from him, he took 1 from me. When it was over, I had 5 stock left. And one of those stock I lost because he got a pity final smash on me (You can't turn those off by the way).

Some characters I have trouble with are some Ness dittos. Some Small characters also. Game and Watch is tough. I was barely able to beat this one I played against. Be sure to tap-DI out of that bug spray.

[Ademisk]

I don't have trouble against your average Marth either, it's the best Marths I have trouble with. I fought Canada's Noobking and MikeHaze, both their Marths were extremely good(Up-B out of shield is ****ing ridiculous)

[GoForkUrself]

Just shield grab Sonic to build damage, and do a back throw to finish sonic off. Really any character besides the slow grab characters can pretty easily handle sonic since pretty much every attack is easily shield grabbed. Note: When I say shield grab, I mean hold shield, then press A right when he is in range and attacking your shield. I know that is a pretty basic technique, but that is all it takes vs. Sonic. A good Marth owns everyone except the almighty waddlespaming, chain throwing King Dedede. I have yet to find a good GW player.

[Mushy]

Does DDD do well agains GaW?
a ness/DDD player would basically win all the time then...

[Ademisk]

The only person who really does good against G&W is G&W.

[hpkomic]

As of right now, I'm having a real problem with Sonic. I've had no trouble with Marth since he's easy to keep at a distance. Sonic is so fast though that he can simply run pass any of my projectiles and he can leave my range quickly. I've also noticed that he'll beat me to the punch when it comes to air moves.

Oddly enough, tonight was I struggling with Jigglypuff, then again, I've not played against her much. Falco was another that took me a bit, but I've learned some things about him and don't have as much trouble now.

[Ademisk]

Sonic has NOTHING on Ness. You can just spam fair and there's almost nothing he could do about it.

[N355]

I main ness and I have trouble against wario for some reason, and marth of course

[NessOnett]

Sonic has NOTHING on Ness. You can just spam fair and there's almost nothing he could do about it.

I'm doing better against Sonic using my f-airs, my yoyos help out a lot too...but I'm having a tough time landing a killing blow once i have him at high percent. Usually i use my b-air, bat, or b-throw, but he starts dashing and i can't grab him...and all his aerials come out faster than my b-air, is there a good reliable way to finish off a dodgy sonic?

[Mushy]

uhhh....he's slow in the air, so Uair might work, chained with a couple PKT for good measure.
just shield grab! he has to attack sometime in a stock match. mindgames?
I never have problems with sonic, sorry. although that Fair is annoying unless I Fair.

GaW seriously doesn't have ANY weaknesses? at ALL???
it would be convienient if we found a technique/playing style that turned Ness into a GaW counter.
....so if GaW owns everyone, the only real counter is Marth. Not bad, as a Marth at your skill level is still possibly beatable by Ness.

[heypancho]

Um.. Pit? I have a hard time against Pit... and I'm not sure if I should be. I'm scared to PK anything against him and I always get caught in.. HY-YA-YA-YA. I'd rather not gimp his upB every time at 40%... I only play with friends so.. I feel like that's like hardcore. So basically, Pit makes me change my style and so I lose a lot. I win with Yoshi though >_>. Any tips/obvious solutions?

[Rapid_Assassin]

I am just wondering, are there any characters that so far seem to have an inherent advantage to Ness, any that he just can't seem to consistently beat when in the hands of a good user?

Olimar! Pikmin like to eat thunder.

[Levitas]

^^^ The Olimar thing doesn't even matter. I think you might have mistaken PKT for a real recovery move.

[hpkomic]

It'd be nice if there was a single post that listed tactics to use against each character. Could be a good guide to help people learn how to deal with any troublesome matchups. That way there'd be less threads concerning tactics against a single character, and a single thread that covers tactics against all the characters and for debate and discussion in case any news ones show up.

I'd start one myself, but I doubt I have any standing to actually make anyone interested in posting it, so anyone who is more-involved with the community, consider starting one. You'd be doing a lot of folks a big favor.

[Ademisk]

Yeah, Emmy, you can just use nair to kill Pikmin that are you on, and you can even tailwhip Pikmin he throws at you. Olimar is someone Ness is GOOD against, not someone who's good against Ness.

Marth and Snake are inherently good against Ness, sheerly due to their range and priority.


Also, it's pointless to do character matchups at this point, since nobody has enough experience with them to make a detailed guide. Keep fighting them and learn the matchups for yourself.

[NessOnett]

Also, it's pointless to do character matchups at this point, since nobody has enough experience with them to make a detailed guide. Keep fighting them and learn the matchups for yourself.

well regardless Ademisk, i am going to try. Can't hurt to have a thread, and information/strategies can always be added to it over time with the magical edit button. Granted it will be a mere shell of a guide to begin with, but it should fill out after a while if i can get support from the community.(im trying to put as little personal bias in as possible by not writing much myself).

[Jono]

I'm doing better against Sonic using my f-airs, my yoyos help out a lot too...but I'm having a tough time landing a killing blow once i have him at high percent. Usually i use my b-air, bat, or b-throw, but he starts dashing and i can't grab him...and all his aerials come out faster than my b-air, is there a good reliable way to finish off a dodgy sonic?

Yoyo combo?

[EToaster]

And one of those stock I lost because he got a pity final smash on me (You can't turn those off by the way).

Yes, you can. You have to turn off Smash Balls. It doesn't work if you just set items to "none", you have to actually disable Smash Balls specifically. This also prevents Dedede from randomly throwing any items you turn off in this manner.

[goohst]

Lrn 2 fite contra Sonic.


And G&W = rape. I have problems with computers, which is IMMENSELY sad.

And also: Pit.

[Dajayman]

What would you suggest against a Toon Link?

[N.OW]

uses lots of down airs. This seems to work for me against any character lately. Don't let toon link get away from you, cause you will just get projectiled. Also, dont challenge toon links down air, just bait it and then move to the side and get a free hit/grab.

[Cocoashadow]

GaW rapes my face in. BAD. For some reason, I seem to have trouble with Peach, too. I am no pro though, so that's probably just me...

[Laser]

What would you suggest against a Toon Link?

A good Toon Link is a tough match up for anyone, but especially Ness. Remember that his dair has outrageous priority and will go straight through both your yoyo and your utilt. Don't bother trying to preempt it as it comes down, just get out of the way and punish the lag if you can. Along the same lines, TL's usmash and uair usually both beat Ness's dair, so don't try it on the way down unless you're absolutely sure you can land it for a spike.

In fact, minimize your airtime altogether. If you're going to approach, always short hop. You can usually force your way towards TL with short hopped fairs. If he starts spamming arrows, bat them back at his face to get him thinking twice about doing that. Catch or powershield bombs. If you can get him to forsake his projectile game and get desperate, you can easily win the match. If you're lucky he'll try to dash in and hit you with a dash attack. Just shield this and grab him. Your back throw will kill a TL at 100-110%, so save that power.

All of Ness's specials carry lag that will destroy you against TL's speed, so don't go whiffing a PK attack or you can count on being fsmashed right the **** out. Be really cautious with PKT2. Once in a blue moon, you'll be able to bait a TL into approaching when they shouldn't and getting a face full of electrified Ness. But don't try this unless you're a stock up, because 90% of the time TL can rush over and put you at the mercy of his aerials (or worse) before you can curve the bolt around. The positive side is that, if you connect, you'll kill him with it even in the high double-digit percents.

[seedvt]

I'm having troubles vs my friend's Falco. His dair goes right through my yoyos, and he constantly spams A and follows up with a shine. So basically, he spaces me out too much.

[Double]

if im not mistaken, isnt pit's worst matchup ness and/or lucas?

back on topic, yeah i would say a good marth and especially a good g/w are ness's hardest matchups. also, metaknights that abuse neutral b seem to be a pretty bad matchup for ness too.

[Levitas]

I'm thinking that Lucas is a really bad matchup for pit, but I'm not really seeing what makes Ness good against him. If you could elaborate, that would be nice.

[Ademisk]

I dunno either, the game's too early to say for sure. All I know is that I never have problems with Pit, fair outranges him in most instances, bat outdistances almost all his ground attacks, Ness can rape his recovery if done properly(even if he hasn't pulled out the wings yet, you can really easily stage spike him.)

[Earthbound360]

Yeah, I'm with Ademisk on this. Pit isnt so bad, but I HATE Pikachuand Wolf. Sometimes even my friends ROB.