PKT2 Ricochet - What's the deal?

[Aevin]

I've had a problem since I started playing Ness and Lucas with the PKT2 wall-climbing technique often ricocheting for seemingly no reason at all.

For anyone who doesn't know, what I'm talking about is angling your PKT2 at a wall or surface in order to curve and join it, climbing along that surface. The easiest way to do it is to shoot at about a 45 degree angle upwards toward wall. It's neat because it allows you to shoot upwards much more quickly without being quite as accurate.

At first, I thought it was extra sensitive in Brawl, but lately I've realized I can almost always do it on certain walls, and never do it on other walls.

Basically, if you're shooting at a vertical surface from the left side, you will join it and wall climb. If you're shooting at a similar angle from the right side, you will ricochet off and fall to your death.

The easiest place to check this out is the vertical walls on Shadow Moses Island. Use PKT2 to shoot at a 45 degree angle upwards into the wall on your right. If done correctly, you should see Ness or Lucas's angle turn and shoot upwards along the wall. However, if you try the same thing on the left wall, you'll hit your head and careen off of it unable to move.

Am I the only one who finds this strange? It's not something specific to stages, either. In a custom stage, I fired to my right and joined the wall, then fired to my left and bounced off. So, I went back into the stage editor, rotated the blocks so that the opposite surfaces were facing toward me, and had the same result.

Kind of an odd and effect ... yet it's the same for Ness and Lucas, and consistent for any surfaces I've tried it on.

Which means Ness and Lucas are at a disadvantage when knocked off certain stages to the right instead of the left. Keep this in mind if you're trying to PKT2 wall climb to recover.

[Ademisk]

Okay....NOW DESTROY THIS TOPIC BEFORE ANYONE FINDS OUT ABOUT IT!!!

[Aevin]

I just think it's weird that it works from one side but not the other. I can't imagine it being intended. Probably an oversight, or something.

[Ademisk]

Let me go check some stuff on it. T_T


*Sigh* I really hope this doesn't get out. Luckily, it's not as necessary as Melee...but...still. Come on...

[Levitas]

You certainly can ricochet from the left towards a wall, but yeah, it does seem less common. I guess I didn't notice because I was trying it out on the fire stage of Poke stadium 1, which should explain things quite clearly.

That said, if you're gonna ricochet, usually it's 'cause you aimed for an edge and got edgehogged in my experience. Why not try just avoiding the setups unless you really want to bounce off a wall and surprise your opponent.

[Ademisk]

Now, the interesting thing about this to me is...there's no difference between the two PK Thunders. Whether you shoot on the left, or the right, there's no difference in knockback, lag, damage. Both directions slide equally well on the ground....and neither sliding up, nor down, a wall on either side works well. What does this tell us? It means that it is NOT any specific side of the hitbox that's doing this, it's purely the direction. But how does the direction affect this at all? HOW is the hitbox different when you shoot Ness on the right side than when you shoot him on the left? I just can't figure it out, but it has to have something to do with how the hitbox collides with the walls....or is it something about Ness's physics and not the PK Thunder at all?



Also, you can slide across ceilings too...but not walls on your left...>_> Wtf? This is seriously straight crazu/




EDIT: Okay, I've managed to slide small distance on a left side wall, but only by doing a near-straight up PK Thunder and only about 1/4 of a PK thunders distance before sliding off.

[NESSBOUNDER]

Looks like these stages need more...

OIL...

[Levitas]

Now, the interesting thing about this to me is...there's no difference between the two PK Thunders. Whether you shoot on the left, or the right, there's no difference in knockback, lag, damage. Both directions slide equally well on the ground....and neither sliding up, nor down, a wall on either side works well. What does this tell us? It means that it is NOT any specific side of the hitbox that's doing this, it's purely the direction. But how does the direction affect this at all? HOW is the hitbox different when you shoot Ness on the right side than when you shoot him on the left? I just can't figure it out, but it has to have something to do with how the hitbox collides with the walls....or is it something about Ness's physics and not the PK Thunder at all?

Something to consider is the way that the model spins should be the same all the time, that is if he shoots to the left, he's spinning clockwise, and he'll still be spinning clockwise if he spins to the right. Of course, I don't know if it's clockwise, but the point is, the meshing of the half-dimension as he spins one way against the left walls might be great, but if he spins the same way against walls on the right, it may not work as well. Which would be odd indeed.

[annoying1359]

What direction are you facing prior to PKT2? If you tried both, this is just stupid.

[Aevin]

Yes, I tried both. And indeed, it's stupid.

[SenorPresidente]

Well i was trying this at the castle siege stage (the very first part of the stage before it switches) and i was able to slide of the left side but i bounce of the right side. but i am still learning to fully control pk thunder so someone else should test it.

[SuperMetaGoldKnight(SMGK)]

I tried it on both sides of Shadow Moses, and I too think this is completely and pointless stupid.

[eyestrain92]

Looks like these stages need more...

OIL...

Quite. We need more conclusive and specific research! Besides, I usually find it less useful to slide along walls now adays.

[Ademisk]

I've tried every angle and every direction.

[annoying1359]

How about 45 degrees downward?

Why, Sakurai, WHY?!

[SuperMetaGoldKnight(SMGK)]

Maybe if 45 degrees wont work, a 44 degree angle would work?

[annoying1359]

Yeah, that'll be easy to get...

[Aevin]

No, trust me. I've tried every degree angle from 0 to 463, including any possible fraction or decimal. Really.

[Ademisk]

Same, with multiple directions facing, and both directions vertically. The only thing I wanna know now is if you can damage someone after ricochet like you can while sliding across the wall.

[SuperMetaGoldKnight(SMGK)]

It seems like you should be able to, but I can as easily see it not. That would add nice mind games to levels on walls. "Hey, why is he goining away from OH MY GOD HE BOUNCED OFF THE *ko*"

[Ademisk]

It's also completely useless since walls are banned in tournament play(thank you Dedede).

[Aevin]

No, you can't hit with the ricochet.

Just noticed you can still do it on both sides of the Melee stages without ricocheting. Wierd.

[SuperMetaGoldKnight(SMGK)]

Why is Dedede the cause of walls being banned from tournament play? I've been too lazy to try and keep up with all the characters.

[Ademisk]

He can infinite chain grab against walls.

[Levitas]

He can infinite throw 5 people, samus, DK, luigi, bowser, and mario.

everyone else can either spotdodge, roll, or jab out.

[eyestrain92]

Nobody likes you Weegee >_>

****it DeDeDe, your name stays true to your nature.

Well, as said, I haven't seen a lot of sliding in Ness matches I've seen. Someone try to emphasis the usefulness of this technique for me please?

[Ademisk]

No...he can infinite throw everyone against a wall if he does it perfectly, Jman. He can inifite throw those 5 people without moving, anywhere.

[N355]

It's weird. Sometimes the ricocheting happens to me too. It seems like you have to be more precise with angling you pkt2 to wall climb