Repelling Projectiles with PSI Magnet

[Aevin]

Here's an interesting one ...

While playing around with PSI Magnet, I noticed an odd "wind" effect. I accidentally used it in SSE to push a primid off a cliff, and figured I'd better check it out in VS.

Basically, when you deactivate Ness's PSI Magnet, there's a repelling wind effect that begins about at the point that Ness's head moves forward on deactivation. It's very brief, but it does have some interesting effects.

We tried it on a few throwing projectiles, and for some reason it works for some but not others. Generally, it seems you can repel items with a "soft throw" whereas the heavier and faster moving items have no effect. Most of the time, this will just push the things back a tiny bit so that Ness doesn't get hit. But in certain cases when the projectile is closer to his body when the magnet deactivates, it actually sends them quite far--as in far enough to hit your opponents.

The best thing to try this with is Snake's grenades. It also works with Link and Toon Link's bombs and Dedede's Waddle-Dees! For some reason, it doesn't work with Peach's turnips, however.

It also pushes back other players a little bit. It's unlikely to help much in singles, but I can see some possible uses for this in teams--for example, you could use it to increase the throwing range of Dedede's Waddle-dees. Or, when someone starts a smash attack, you can actually use this psychic wind to move them--allowing a team mate to release and unexpectedly strike an opponent. It's a pretty small movement, so nothing really amazing, but it could be useful.

Unfortunately, I can't provide a video since I don't have a recording device, but it's fairly easy to do. Have an opponent throw say, Snake's grenades at you, and time the deactivation so that Ness's head pops forward when the projectile reaches him.

Again, forgive me if this is widely known and I've just missed out.

[thesage]

I didn't know that it could reflect projectiles, but u might as well just use the bat >.> Maybe these projectiles can't be reflected with the bat?

[Ademisk]

It doesn't reflect them, it just pushes them back slightly, It's infinitely harder to time than the bat, and it's actually better to just, yanno, shield them.


And yes Aevin, this has been known for like...ever.

[Aevin]

The thing about it is that it repels them at strange and perhaps unexpected angles. Bombs can't be reflected with the bat because they detonate when they hit. Striking Dedede's minions with a bat sends them flying or KO's them--not desirable in team matches. Also, if you're trying to absorb something and you've got one of these projectiles flying at you, good timing could very well save you.

Not a terribly useful technique, but it has its place. Besides that, it just so freaking cool looking. Ness pushing these things away with the power of his mind. Psychokinesis. ... I like it.

EDIT: On a completely unrelated note, I just noticed you can bat reflect Zero Suit Samus's Plasma Whip (forward B).

[Tyr_03]

Using it to actually move a player, even in teams would be suicide. It takes too long to recover from the lag after it, unlike Lucas's down B. The most plausible use I see for this is killing a jigglypuff who missed with his rest near the edge (seriously it's hilarious.)

[Ademisk]

....omg, that's brilliant! YOU SIR ARE A GENIUS!!!

[Aevin]

Tyr: I think you're overestimating the lag. If you're able to absorb projectiles and deactivate without being hit by opponents, why would this be any different?

I should clarify ... I'm not talking about using it to move smashing opponents away from you, but to move smashing teammates closer to other players.

... And the Jigglypuff idea is awesome. :)

[Ademisk]

Because you're deactivating it BEFORE the projectile hits you, that takes a considerably larger amount of skill. I think you're wildly underestimating the lag.

[Aevin]

He's not talking about using it for the projectiles, but for moving teammates. That could be done on the spur of the moment with just the time to activate and deactivate, giving your teammate a little nudge in the right direction. I used the absorbing projectile example just to indicate how fast the move is.

I'm not saying this is a fantastic technique with numerous safe uses, but you seem awfully stubborn in immediately shooting down what limited uses it may have. I'll use it when I find it fun and useful. You don't use it at all, if that makes you happy.

[Smashbros_7]

Aevin strikes again good find!!!

[Ademisk]

I don't think it's particuarly useful for projectiles. There's simply better ways to dodge them. Maybe it has uses, but this isn't one of them.

[Aevin]

How bout this ...

It actually effects items sitting still on the ground, too.

Some of the more interesting ones are barrels--including rolling barrels which will then damage your opponent--crates and rolling crates, blast boxes and bob-bombs. It affects the bob-bombs when they are active and walking, too. Try using it on a crate or barrel that's really close to you. Imagine pushing a bob-bomb or blast box into an attacking opponent's path! It can also effect any of these items when "soft thrown," where they do a kind of arc up into the air before settling down. If someone throws a barrel at you, you can repel it back into them with this move. It works on a pretty wide variety of items, with seemingly no rhyme or reason to which work and which don't. It's very easy to do once you get the timing down, and I don't see how this couldn't be at least somewhat useful.

[Kiki52]

Can this Ness' magnet technique work with Pikmin as well?

[saratos]

Seems somewhat useless. Most of those items you stated wouldn't be activated in pro play. We should look into others, though, like pikmin and stuff.

[Ademisk]

Okay, if everyone wants to find some reason to love PSI Magnet, I've got a request. I've been trying to test this before saying anymore, but I can't figure it out. If you're in the air and moving in a certain direction, and then do a turnaround PSI Magnet(IE moving off the stage to the left also facing left, and PSI Magnet while pressing right so you end up in PSI Magnet facing to the right) sometimes you will move a small distance in that direction. It seems to have to do with the speed of going from down to the direction you want to face.


What I WANT to know how to do is something I haven't seen, but have heard 2 people say they've seen done. It's the same exact thing, except it covers a large distance, close to about half a PKT2s straight horizontal distance if that's to be believed. I've heard it done by both Ness and Lucas. This could be one of the most important recovery strategies in the game, so any knowledge about this would be extremely appreciated.

[Aevin]

I believe I tried Pikmin and found they didn't work, because they're thrown with too much forward momentum. As I mentioned before, it does work with bombs, grenades and waddle-dees, though.

Perhaps not terribly useful for tournament play ... But try it on a rolling crate and tell me that's not awesome!

It works in the air, too. I've been having fun picking up barrels and throwing them above me, then timing my PSI Magnet to send it bouncing across the stage at my opponent. Oh ... And it activates turtle shells, too. Tee hee.

[Kirby, Gotenks absorbed]

Yay! Ness is cool! Thanks for the info.

[Oceanborn]

The repel is actually fairly decent considering it's not an actual repel. I was using it against the sandbag during an online match while waiting. I must say, it's quite surprising. I wouldn't be the one to think about what exactly it would be but I know it will eventually have its use.

[Timotee]

So, since I didn't feel like checking the other psi magnet threads further down, I figured I'd ask here. You guys noticed you can absorb ZSS's dsmash, right?

Well, technically, I'm only sure lucas can, but birds of a feather...

On topic edit: I saved a lucas once when I ate his pk thunder, I let go of psi magnet right after, and it pushed him into the edge to grab it, I was saddened.

[Nimkip]

Okay, if everyone wants to find some reason to love PSI Magnet, I've got a request. I've been trying to test this before saying anymore, but I can't figure it out. If you're in the air and moving in a certain direction, and then do a turnaround PSI Magnet(IE moving off the stage to the left also facing left, and PSI Magnet while pressing right so you end up in PSI Magnet facing to the right) sometimes you will move a small distance in that direction. It seems to have to do with the speed of going from down to the direction you want to face.

Hmm, sounds like your talking about this: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144583

Some, mistook this tech as a reverse b which it is not.

[Levitas]

Thanks for the info, Timotee. Maybe today, I'll do some experimenting, see if other energy smashes can be absorbed.

[Ademisk]

Yes I am, but I know it can go farther than that, I'm 100% sure with Lucas and about 70% sure with Ness. So, is it purely speed or is it something else?

[PK Starstorm]

that's mazing. i'd like to learn how to do this too.

[Ademisk]

Right? The number one way to gimp Ness is just running into his PKT, which is even easier to do in Brawl. Being able to do this will almost completley null that by being able to move out of their way in midair.

[Zaim2]

I like the wind effect even if it doesn't turn to be useful competitively in any way shape or form, simply because it has a property that Lucas' Psi Magnet doesn't have. (Unless I'm dead wrong and releasing Lucas magnet along with being a shine with high knockback, deflects all projectiles without any of the momentum-dependant strangeness AND does it at double the range of Ness. It wouldn't surprise me :laugh:)

If Ness' Magnet healed 2x and Lucas only 1.5x instead of the way it currently is I'd be sort of happy. Lucas would still have the superior magnet, but it would be a "fair" exchange. Ness concentrates to the point that it covers his entire body, which should translate to more healing, not less than Lucas who is stingy and saves up on PP by only doing enough to cover one side of his body, and then just moving it about as necessary.

[Ademisk]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152815

That's what I was looking for.

[xnightninjax]

im so glad i figured out what this does now haha thanks man.

[PK Starstorm]

actually, i tried it in battle and it worked pretty nicely. good spacing set up. I notice, that when used up close so the opponent get's the full blow back, it makes the perfect spacing for the tip of the bat ALWAYS.

[Ademisk]

As if an enemy's going to stand there and wait while you finish up your PSI magnet and then bat them.

[Aevin]

One thing I've never understood is why some people think a viable tactic is one which works all the time regardless of opponent reactions. I'd rather think of them as weapons in my arsenal which are suited for different times. Using the same "infallible" tactics over and over again will only get repetitive and predictable.

PK Starstorm says this tactic has worked for him, so I'll put it away in my arsenal for the time when it will prove useful. Thanks for the info.