Help! I can't beat Wario AND Metaknight with Ness.

[Smashbros_7]

My brother kicks my *** all over using Wario.
His air movement is too good. I can't approach from the air, and on the ground?
Forget about it! Seriously, he farts to end 150% stalement, he uses his bike effectively in the air, and he's pretty fast! I can't beat him no mater what I do, HELP!!!

Also, Metaknights kicking my *** all over with his Forward tilt and downsmash!
Forward tilt stops me from approaching from below, downsmash kills me, his aerials are fast, and he's just so **** annoying!

PS: I can beat Wario now.

[Ademisk]

Pretty sure your brother is just better than you. Ness is better in the air, his fair outranges most of Wario's stuff, and his bair is a kill move, though it has to be well placed. Space him well on the ground, watch out for his fsmash since it has super armor while he's moving. Get him off the edge, then dair him out of his bike.

[Smashbros_7]

You forgot, Wario Dsmash comes out fast, his UAir kills me, In fact when I get launched into the air, I will rarely if ever, land on the ground... While tilting his bike upwards, it`s difficult to hit Wario, his fart can end our stalements, I can`t approach from the air since he has superior air movements (think Jigglypuff) and the fact that he`s so **** heavy doesn`t help either.

[Ademisk]

Don't approach from above, approach from the sides. And I said ****ing space yourself on the ground, you don't want to be close enough to be hit by the Dsmash unless you're hitting him with something already.

[Levitas]

large characters get trapped in the PK fire more easily, and in the air, all characters are prone to PKT

[Smashbros_7]

large characters get trapped in the PK fire more easily, and in the air, all characters are prone to PKT

You forget, Wario is about the size of Ness and he can DI himself out of just about anything.
Spacing works to an extent. But when I space myself just right he ambushes me with his bike then jumps of and leads me into an air combo. But thanks your advice kinda works but I still have trouble beating him. I just need to avoid the fart and space myself.

[Ademisk]

I don't think I've every gotten hit by the fart. It's really freaking easy to avoid.

[Cornbread]

show us a video

[Smashbros_7]

I don`t have a camera, but If make a replay data then show it to you guys... I just need your FC.

Going to get mine, but wait a while Im playing SSE.

[Cornbread]

heres mine 2277-6288-8704
Nickname corn

[err]

I don't think I've every gotten hit by the fart. It's really freaking easy to avoid.

um real Wario's (i.e. ME) end combos with that waft, and it ****ing works. when these servers quit lagging im kickin your ***

[Meta_Sonic64]

um real Wario's (i.e. ME) end combos with that waft, and it ****ing works. when these servers quit lagging im kickin your ***


Good luck, I'll admit, Ademisk beat me a lot on the first day. I was still getting used to the game then, but now everytime we play, DDD seems to be a problem for him. Yesterday, I only lost one match against him with DDD and that was b/c I made a mistake at one point, but after that, I was just winning back and forth.

[Ademisk]

I'm pulling lag johns, on everything. There's no way any of our matches could count with that kind of lag man, sorry. Even the ones where I beat you. Seriously, I'm pulling like a full second of lag out my ***.

[Smashbros_7]

um real Wario's (i.e. ME) end combos with that waft, and it ****ing works. when these servers quit lagging im kickin your ***

just like my bro, err Wario dude, can youi tell me your weakness? I mean, seriously I hate that stupid waft!

[56k]

Pretty sure your brother is just better than you. Ness is better in the air, his fair outranges most of Wario's stuff, and his bair is a kill move, though it has to be well placed. Space him well on the ground, watch out for his fsmash since it has super armor while he's moving. Get him off the edge, then dair him out of his bike.

To be honest, I don't think anyone is better than Wario in the air lol. Unless that person has a sword =P...

But one thing I noticed about Ness is that all of his aerials can auto-cancel if you do them soon enough out of a short hop. I'd use that to combat Wario. Especially his nair and fair. I suggest saving bair for kills. And if Wario's ever on the ground, Ness's dash attack is a really good move.

[Darth Ace]

The problem with fighting Wario with anyone is the fact that his movements are a little hard to guage because of his animation. I'd say pepper him from long range initally. Wario is one of my faves personally, right after my boy Pikachu and Sammy, because his attacks just seem so random. His moves are like Ness in the first game, just real unique and hard to duplicate without some hardcore practice.
I'd say train against Wario as Ness on a high level then switch it around and train against Ness as Wario. It's easier to trump sombody if you know who you're trumping.
And no worries, it's Brawl. Anything can happen.

[Smashbros_7]

Thanks for the advice, I won one match! But Im afraid he'll comeback and kick my butt again.

[Meta_Sonic64]

I'm pulling lag johns, on everything. There's no way any of our matches could count with that kind of lag man, sorry. Even the ones where I beat you. Seriously, I'm pulling like a full second of lag out my ***.

Really? What type of router or connection you use. For some reason my game doesn't really lag, but play at the same speed it would if I was in offline Brawl. Maybe it does lag but it doesn't seem like it to me. Maybe it's my gaming router.

[Ademisk]

Yeah, that happens sometimes. Sometimes one person just doesn't get lag, I've experienced it with my friends when I play them and they get major lag and I'm not feeling anything. It's kind of wierd and I can't figure out what the problem is.

[Smashbros_7]

Hey guys, anymore tips?

[Sikarios]

Smashbros_7, my only tip (which you're probably already aware of) is to more strongly establish Ness' throwing game on Wario. This of course depends on the stage as well as how "jumpy" of an opponent you are speaking about. Ness is my main and I always make it a habit to establish an aggressive match using PKCross, Ness' wicked dash attack, and his wicked throw game.

Ness is such a great character for mistake punishment, just bait your Wario into mistakes. Misjudges a smash? Use the bat. Have the air advantage? Use Ness' wicked fair. His rolls and ground evades are primo, just roll and keep on rolling.

I'm no expert at Smash Bros. but when I play Ness I make a concerted effort to outlast my opponent. Don't end up in a stalemate situation: if you play items then dominate the item spawns, if you're at similar %'s try your ****dest to sneak in a firebolt or dash attack to get the advantage in your favor.

Hope some of that helps.

[Levitas]

I like using PK Thunder from a safe distance against non-projectile characters. Snake it towards them near the ground, and loop it up at the last second. The PK Thunder can cover you REALLY well in brawl, so capitalize on that.

Oh, and always (or at least usually) aim for a tailwhip. The tail is so long that if you loop the PKT around after they get hit with the tail, it actually combos into the bolt.

Edit: Make sure you know what "a safe distance" and "using the PKT to cover yourself" mean before over-using the PKT for any reason. Actually, don't over-use the PKT (or anything else) because the term "overuse" imply that it loses some effectiveness, and that's bad, lol.

[Smashbros_7]

Argh! I can beat Wario now, but I need help with Metaknight!

[Ademisk]

I don't know what to tell you...fair, bair, PK Thunder. I don't have a lot of problems with MK.

[thesage]

Capitalize with MK on the fact that he has killing problems. Sheild spam, fair spam. If he uses neutral b use pk fire or pkt2 or shield. D-smash, f-smash, and up-b are his only killers. Watch out if he tries to uair juggle u (make sure to remember you have multiple airdodges).

[Levitas]

The "metaknight can't kill" thing's a rumor. Nair kills rather well, thank you. Also, your fair will usually beat his, and that's your safest approach. Don't be caught off the edge, because you will die. Try not to use PK fire unless you're absolutely certain it will hit. Yoyo's are good because a metaknight in the air is a metaknight you can attack.

Be scared, all he has to do is run up and grab you 12-15 times and you will be in kill range, lol.

Sarcasm aside, I think that the matchup with Meta along with a few others will define which characters end up in which tiers. Finding ways to crush Meta should be a high priority, along w/ DDD, Olimar, ROB, Pit, and Snake.

[Ademisk]

Pit's easy with Ness. His fair destroys everything Pit has, PSI Magnet absorbs arrows, PK Thunder destroys his recovery. Oh look, I learned how to beat him.


Highest priority is Snake.
Then G&W
Then Marth
Then MK
Then maybe Dedede.

[RoyalRook]

play against me, I will show you exactly how hard it is for Ness or Kirby or many none swords wielders characters to beat a good Wario.

Wario aren't go no range but against Ness, he can just over power that kid with anything. Personally, I only scared of Ness' yo yo, and that is about it, lol.

[Ademisk]

Pretty sure you've never fought a good Ness, so your opinion doesn't matter.

[SenorPresidente]

Highest priority is Snake.

How do you play against snake. I seem to have a lot of problems with this match up dealing with Marth some how is easier then snake.

[mightybearseven]

Pretty sure you've never fought a good Ness, so your opinion doesn't matter.

I've been viewing this board for less than a week, and you're already totally insufferable. God forbid someone try to say something, especially about Ness, unless they want you jumping down their throat, explaining how you knew what an idiotic idea it was before it even crossed their mind. Give it a rest.

[Ademisk]

Pretty sure people who are wrong influence other peoples opinions, and that thought haunts me every day.

[Levitas]

lol, you hit 2222 posts just now.

mighty, this will settle down eventually. Ademisk is probably still in shock after coming from the old Ness boards where a few people would talk about really refined ideas, and now there's a huge mix of people talking about whatever comes to mind. And don't kid yourself, there's been a number of really bad ideas here.

Edit: oh, and welcome to smashboards.

[Ademisk]

Levitas balances me out.